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Wish: Knobbly 36er

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rec.sport.unicycling
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12 November 2006
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16 November 2006
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mark williamson
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  1. Muni on a 36er is just awesome. Yesterday I was out riding XC trails
    with a friend. I had my UDC 36er, he had a 26" muni. My 36er
    absolutely flew over the trails, including bits of flattish single
    track - it was awesome. If you keep your wits about you and plan for
    the trail ahead the huge wheel rolls happily over *everything* in your
    path, at really high speed.

    For the majority of riding, my Qu-Ax / Wheel TA / slick tyre works fine
    - it has a big contact patch so it's fairly grippy. But I wish I could
    get a 36er tyre with knobbles on.

    We were looking at descending a steep hill. My friend's 26" (which
    he's not yet used to) slipped in the mud, and he UPDed. I was
    confident that with the high speed possible on my 36" I should be able
    to successfully spin out the bank, despite its steepness and slippery
    mud surface. And I was right, I descended the hill no problem...

    Unfortunately, disaster struck on the flat. With the speed I'd
    acquired down the hill I carried on rolling through the singletrack.
    Unfortunately, I hit a particularly slippy section and the slick tyre
    just stepped sideways underneath me. Suddenly I was stepping off
    sideways, kinking my ankle painfully outwards underneath my weight as I
    fell from a height, at speed. Ouch.

    The result was a nasty sprain - no worse, fortunately. I was glad to
    have been wearing boots with ankle support (they do have some safety
    disadvantages but I always figure that for me these are outweighed by
    the extra protection). After lying there recovering, I found that I
    had landed in a patch of stinging nettles - oh dear. Fortunately my
    long sleeved top protected me - mostly... I'll be unable to ride for a
    while, am taking ibuprofen and am wearing an ankle support (and icing /
    elevating / resting the injury). Still, it's tedious being injured -
    as always.

    Anyhow the bottom line is that coker muni is great fun and I'll
    continue to do it. However, I'm going to have to be wary of slippery /
    steep sections in future. Obviously falling from the height and speed
    of a Coker is never going to be good, but in this case I really
    *really* wished I could have had a proper knobby tyre (not like the
    standard Coker tyre - real knobs) to give me that little bit of extra
    grip. I guess I'll just have to cross my fingers and hope enough
    people realise the utter awesomeness of coker muni-ing for a knobbly
    tyre to be put into production!

    --
    mark williamson

    Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no
    pedals!
    Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
    Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
    Mark: My wheel has a wheel!
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  2. sorry to threadjack, but the top 3 threads in RSU are all about coker
    tyres! wow!

    back on topic.

    that sounds like it could be A LOT of fun with a grippy tyre, although
    i imagine it would weigh A LOT.

    --
    iridemymuni

    munipsycho said:

    Just a bit of advice: never vomit while wearing a full-face helmet.

    irvinegr said:

    haha i just thaught it was funny the title is "3th movie"

    pixystix6 said:

    oo give him and intising lap dance while he rubs pasteries all over you

    'Bike Coalition!!' (www.bikecoalition.com)
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  3. Something like a 36" Kenda Klaw would be extremely cool 😄
    But coker muni is such a niche market I doubt it would ever be worth
    anybody making anything like that - they'd have to sell them for a
    ridiculously high price to make any money. The 36" tyres we have now
    are already expensive enough.
    A decent XC tyre was one of the requests when the bloke from Coker was
    on the forum asking about what people wanted from a new Coker unicycle,
    but I fear it'll never happen 🙁

    Rob

    --
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  4. Quoted message said:

    Something like a 36" Kenda Klaw would be extremely cool

    Absolutely. Wouldn't need to be any fatter, or knobblier, just have
    better grip than the existing tyres.

    Quoted message said:


    But coker muni is such a niche market I doubt it would ever be worth
    anybody making anything like that - they'd have to sell them for a
    ridiculously high price to make any money. The 36" tyres we have now
    are already expensive enough.

    It's a shame that it's a niche market, really - it's such amazing fun,
    even though it doesn't seem like it should work 🙂

    Indeed, I also fear that a 36" knobbly is unlikely for the time being,
    but I can dream 😉 If such a tyre were available I could almost
    completely abandon my 29er, and have a truly go-anywhere machine.

    I know the standard Coker tyre has small knobblies but I'm not really
    sure they do much for offroad grip. Has anyone on here had comparative
    experience of both 36" tyres for offroad? In the dry I doubt it's much
    different, but in the wet...

    I've seen suggestions that the Qu-Ax / Wheel TA Slick is thick enough
    that it could successully have knobblies cut into the tread by an
    enterprising cyclist, using a Big Knife of some kind. The little
    existing tread contains quite deep grooves, so it seems like this
    should be possible without going all the way through the rubber!. If
    the Wheel TA tyre weren't so expensive I'd be tempted to try this
    myself...

    What would be *really really* nice is if somebody with some budget /
    experience were to make a custom job here. Some smalltime builder
    could perhaps offer munified 36" tyres with cut knobblies - for a fee
    on top of the initial cost, of course! I'd certainly be very
    interested in such a tyre, especially with some sort of hybrid on road
    / offroad tread pattern. Could be very great for muni-ing coker-nuts.

    --
    mark williamson

    Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no
    pedals!
    Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
    Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
    Mark: My wheel has a wheel!
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  5. Quoted message said:


    sorry to threadjack, but the top 3 threads in RSU are all about coker
    tyres! wow!

    That's because cokers are great :-)

    Quoted message said:


    that sounds like it could be A LOT of fun with a grippy tyre, although
    i imagine it would weigh A LOT.

    You can get a 36" surprisingly light with some effort - Ken Looi has an
    incredibly lightweight machine (although perhaps not stiff enough for
    offroad?). However, I don't really find the weight is a problem.
    Mounting in a confined space or on lumpy ground can be tricky, but
    seems to be doable with persistent practice. Once that huge wheel is
    spinning, almost nothing seems able to stop it. A well-built airfoil
    wheel is pretty strong and the large diameter, fat tyre and inertia
    make rolling over bumps easy. It's quite surprising how the large
    wheel likes the rough stuff.

    As I found, it's also quite practical to spin fast down steep hills.
    The downside is you need to get rid of that speed at the bottom -
    preferably without twisted ankles!

    In fact, since the tyre has a big footprint, grip should be pretty good
    most of the time. The only major grip problems I've had have been on
    wet and muddy surfaces. I'm not sure I fancy riding it on ice / snow,
    either - but I'll probably try this for giggles 🙂

    --
    mark williamson

    Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no
    pedals!
    Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
    Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
    Mark: My wheel has a wheel!
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  6. The knobbly coker tyre is pretty good off-road. I've used it in
    slippery conditions and it holds up fine- I think partly because of
    it's large surface area. I also run slightly lower pressure with the
    tubeless set-up so that probably helps as well.

    The big diameter is good at rolling over stuff- kind of like having
    suspension to soak up the bumps- you don't notice the small stuff.

    I think it is important to get the weight down especially on the wheel-
    it aids maneuvarability and let's you flick it around under you in
    tricky terrain.

    Ken

    --
    GizmoDuck

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  7. Why doesn't someone stud a coker tire? I've seen muni wheels with it
    done so there is nothing stopping anyone from with modifying a coker
    tire for it (other than price of the tire). Of course, it wouldn't be
    quite as well suited for road riding it would sure work well for off
    road and snow/ice. Maybe if you were to just stud the sides it would
    work fine on road as well.

    Something such as:
    http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45022 but with
    significantly less drastic lengths.

    --
    Brian O.
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  8. I wish for a lightweight version of the coker tyre. I mean one made like
    a road bike tyre, still 36 x 2 1/4", but light. Both the original Coker
    and Wheel TA tyres weigh a ton. A lighter tyre would make for a much
    more nimble, quick to accelerate and generally all round better 36er.

    --
    TonyMelton

    Even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day.
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  9. mark williamson said:

    I've seen suggestions that the Qu-Ax / Wheel TA Slick is thick enough
    that it could successully have knobblies cut into the tread by an
    enterprising cyclist

    I'm seriously considering cutting some grooves in my TA tyre to try to
    avoid wipe-outs on grass/mud. First try will be with a lino cutter,
    and if it works I'll let people know. Real tyre cutters use a heated
    blade, so it might not work well, but it's worth a try I think. I'll
    try cutting a shallow groove first to see if it cuts it nicely.

    With my limited cokering experience so far, it still feels incredibly
    heavy and cumbersome - my 26x3 muni feels like a featherweight racer
    after a few rides on the coker. The coker is slightly quicker over a
    given xc route than the 26, but at the moment seems to take loads more
    energy to ride - hopefully that'll change as I get more used to it.

    Rob

    --
    rob.northcott

    'Dartmoor Muni Weekend'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46116) - Last
    weekend in May 2006
    Same again next year anyone? It'll be dry, I promise.
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  10. rob.northcott said:

    I'm seriously considering cutting some grooves in my TA tyre to try to
    avoid wipe-outs on grass/mud. First try will be with a lino cutter,
    and if it works I'll let people know. Real tyre cutters use a heated
    blade, so it might not work well, but it's worth a try I think. I'll
    try cutting a shallow groove first to see if it cuts it nicely.

    Please let us know how you get on - pics would be nice! Maybe you
    could copy some offroad / hybrid tyre for inspiration as to pattern?
    Or just try to write your name in the tread :-)

    Quoted message said:


    With my limited cokering experience so far, it still feels incredibly
    heavy and cumbersome - my 26x3 muni feels like a featherweight racer
    after a few rides on the coker. The coker is slightly quicker over a
    given xc route than the 26, but at the moment seems to take loads more
    energy to ride - hopefully that'll change as I get more used to it.

    I think it will - I suspect you'll like it. It's very important to be
    smooth and flowing when doing anything with a coker - if you can keep
    up the momentum you can fly along. Remounting is where I currently
    lose most time, but that can be addressed with a static mount to avoid
    too much rolling over the bumps.

    --
    mark williamson

    Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no
    pedals!
    Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
    Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
    Mark: My wheel has a wheel!
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  11. you could try to do a track spike idea. have the holes that you just
    screw in regular track spikes. might cost a lot, but the spikes would
    be better than just regular screws.

    --
    zfreak220

    iridemymuni said:

    i think everybody agrees when i say you lucky son of a [censored]


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  12. I've ridden my Coker tire off-road in snow and ice, on hills, in the
    dark no less. I just dropped the pressure way down, and it was great.

    --
    U-Turn

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
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  13. rob.northcott said:

    I'm seriously considering cutting some grooves in my TA tyre to try to
    avoid wipe-outs on grass/mud. First try will be with a lino cutter,
    and if it works I'll let people know. Real tyre cutters use a heated
    blade, so it might not work well, but it's worth a try I think. I'll
    try cutting a shallow groove first to see if it cuts it nicely.

    With my limited cokering experience so far, it still feels incredibly
    heavy and cumbersome - my 26x3 muni feels like a featherweight racer
    after a few rides on the coker. The coker is slightly quicker over a
    given xc route than the 26, but at the moment seems to take loads more
    energy to ride - hopefully that'll change as I get more used to it.

    Rob

    WHOA TEST IT ON AN OLD (or new if you don't have an old one) and
    smaller tire first

    --
    skrobo

    Quoted message said:

    <> Unicycle For Christ <><

    ____________________________________________
    -last edited by \"your mom\" at 8:35 pm -
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  14. skrobo said:

    WHOA TEST IT ON AN OLD (or new if you don't have an old one) and smaller
    tire first

    I'm not an idiot (or willing to ruin an almost new £60 tyre) 😉
    I'll try a small shallow cut first and if that doesn't cut nicely I'll
    give up - if it works well I'll cut some more. A coker tyre apparently
    performs pretty well off-road, so the only reason I'm thinking of doing
    this is because the 36er I bought (from DarkTom) had a TA road tyre
    fitted, which was almost new. I don't want to spend £60 on a new Coker
    tyre (if they're even available) until the TA one wears out, but I do
    mostly xc riding so a bit more grip would be nice. I don't expect my
    cut TA tyre to be better than a Coker one (although the rubber is
    thicker so it might last a bit longer). I'm not planning on cutting
    loads of rubber away to make a proper nobbly tread, just cutting some
    grooves across the tread to make it a bit less likely to slip on wet
    grassy hills.

    I wonder how well it would be possible to glue (with some sort of
    industrial adhesive and a suitable clamping device) the tread portion
    of a bike tyre to the outside of a 36" TA tyre 😎 . Two Kenda
    Klaws or similar would be enough to cover a whole 36" tyre if it could
    be stuck securely enough. Clearance might me a bit tight in a normal
    coker frame though.

    Rob

    --
    rob.northcott

    'Dartmoor Muni Weekend'
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    weekend in May 2006
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  15. rob.northcott said:


    I wonder how well it would be possible to glue (with some sort of
    industrial adhesive and a suitable clamping device) the tread portion
    of a bike tyre to the outside of a 36" TA tyre 😎 . Two Kenda
    Klaws or similar would be enough to cover a whole 36" tyre if it could
    be stuck securely enough. Clearance might me a bit tight in a normal
    coker frame though.

    Very possible I would have thought, but I would wait until you've got a
    tyre carcass thats worn down pretty far, so the added rubber replaces
    worn tread and therefore hasn't got the weight and clearance issues
    that sticking half an inch of tread on the outside of a new tyre would
    have.

    Might be worth e-mailing Roger and seeing if he has an old coker tyre
    carcass worn through that could be used as a base? I would be really
    happy to try this if I had a tyre I could use. As well as sticking the
    tread on, you could try riveting the ends down to stop it peeling
    back...

    Loose.

    --
    Loosemoose

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  16. Loosemoose said:

    Very possible I would have thought, but I would wait until you've got a
    tyre carcass thats worn down pretty far, so the added rubber replaces
    worn tread and therefore hasn't got the weight and clearance issues
    that sticking half an inch of tread on the outside of a new tyre would
    have.

    I wouldn't think the clearance would be much different (the tread's not
    THAT thick even on a new tyre), but a worn one would be a good base
    because it would have a nice flat surface to glue to. And it would be
    cheaper of course.

    Loosemoose said:

    I would be really happy to try this if I had a tyre I could use. As well
    as sticking the tread on, you could try riveting the ends down to stop
    it peeling back...

    To do a really good job you'd need a hoop-shaped thing to fit inside
    the tyre and a band to clamp round the outside to keep the tread
    pressed onto the carcass while it set. Once the jig had been made (and
    assuming it worked well) it should be easy to repeat it on another
    tyre. Some sort of spikey rubber matting might be cheaper than cutting
    up a couple of bike tyres, but the compound would probably be less than
    ideal for a tyre.
    Sounds like a good idea in theory. Bound to end up quite heavy
    though.

    Rob

    --
    rob.northcott

    'Dartmoor Muni Weekend'
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  17. Why would you stick 2 Kenda Claws ON an existing Coker tire? If you cut
    the tires and make a 36" tire out of it by welding or glueing (or a
    combination) together that would work, I know of a japanese rider who
    glued 2 24" tires together to make a 36" racing tire, even though a
    MUni tire would have to withstand more abuse, I believe it's possible.

    --
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  18. DustinSchaap said:

    Why would you stick 2 Kenda Claws ON an existing Coker tire? If you cut
    the tires and make a 36" tire out of it by welding or glueing (or a
    combination) together that would work, I know of a japanese rider who
    glued 2 24" tires together to make a 36" racing tire, even though a
    MUni tire would have to withstand more abuse, I believe it's possible.

    That would be excellent if it works - I suppose you'd have to stick a
    small section of something over the inside of each joint so it would be
    flush on the outside. The strength of the bead is what would worry me
    (it would be likely to stretch and blow off the rim, even if it didn't
    break while fitting it to the rim in the first place) - although at low
    xc pressures it may not matter so much - that's why I was thinking of
    using an existing tyre carcass. Do you know who that Japanese rider
    was? Is it possible to contact him and find out how he joined them?
    That sounds an extremely tempting idea... if it worked, it would be a
    nice xc treaded tyre for not much more than half the price of a normal
    coker tyre (plus a bit of effort). It would be way lighter as well if
    done with xc bike tyres 😎
    I might give it a go with a couple of really cheap mountain bike tyres
    and see what happens - nothing to lose really as long as I ride
    carefully until it's proved to be strong enough.

    Rob

    --
    rob.northcott

    'Dartmoor Muni Weekend'
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  19. rob.northcott said:

    The strength of the bead is what would worry me (it would be likely to
    stretch and blow off the rim, even if it didn't break while fitting it
    to the rim in the first place) - although at low xc pressures it may
    not matter so much - that's why I was thinking of using an existing
    tyre carcass.

    This might be a bit wacky, but a kevlar bead tyre is essentially a tyre
    with a posh bit of string round it right? When you're putting together
    two tyres to make a 36, you've got a bit of tyre spare. Would it be
    possible to cut back the tyre further than you cut the bead, so you've
    got a bit hanging out, then tie the two beads together using a knot.

    Downside is that the cheapest kevlar tyre I can find is a tenner.

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=398

    Joe

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  20. I like the idea of sticking tread to the outside of a worn tyre. You
    wouldn't need to stick the sidewalls / bead on there, either. Given
    the Coker tyre isn't as heavy as the TA you could probably get an XC
    tyre that wasn't that much heavier than your existing tyre...

    The resulting tyre would hopefully run well and also look amazingly
    cool!

    I've got less clue as to how good sticking together two tyres would be,
    although the idea does appeal in terms of weight etc if it could work!

    --
    mark williamson

    Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no
    pedals!
    Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
    Dave: Skateboards have wheels.
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