Road Cycling · Public discussion

"Wired To Win" sucks

Started by Raptor · · Last activity · 43 posts · 1,032 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Road Cycling
Published
29 May 2006
Last activity
3 June 2006
Original author
Raptor
Posts
43
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
1,032
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 43
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. But it's IMAX, it's bike racing, it's the Tour de France, and it's 2003.
    So go see it anyway.

    With all that going for it, it almost seems like the filmmakers
    struggled to make the most boring film possible. As most of us know, it
    was scripted and filmed to feature Tyler Hamilton, who crashed at the
    end of stage one, broke his collarbone, continued the race, even
    impressively won a stage, and finished fourth overall. After Tyler got
    dumped for (alleged) doping in 2004, they hacked and slashed the footage
    to effectively cut him out. We see a couple shots clearly featuring
    Tyler, but never hear his name. He's listed in the "featured riders"
    credits.

    Instead, we get... Jimmy Caspar and Baden Cooke. Woo-hoo! Okay, Caspar
    earned a role, having sprained his neck in the same crash and continuing
    into the Alps while wearing a neck brace. Cooke wrestled the green
    jersey from Robbie McEwen, so it was worth covering him as well.

    But these guys are sprinters who normally show up only in the last
    minute of the flat stages. Clearly, the big IMAX camera wasn't pointed
    at them for very long. We see Caspar on his bike for about 15 seconds
    once the road goes uphill. Francais de Jeux riders (apparently) did some
    post-race filming to help complete the footage and provide back story.

    All the jaw-dropping drama of that year's TdF is depicted in OLN
    footage. LANCE is mentioned prominently but mainly as the amazing guy
    who owned the Tour. We see him on Luz Ardiden, but Beloki's crash and
    Armstrong's cyclo-cross escapade on the road to Gap is given a complete
    miss.

    There's too much computer animation and not enough really cool IMAX race
    coverage. Ample amounts of the former to tell the film's intended story
    of how the brain of a human under stress works, too little of the latter
    depicting the truly impressive speeds the pros ride at. What there is of
    that IS cool, and I wonder how much of the non-cycling audience
    understands the insane power required to go as fast as the pros do on
    the flat or uphill.

    I think the producers should've just said "go to hell" to WADA (World
    Anti-Doping Agency), and ran with the original Tyler-centered story.
    They could've used their original footage and Tyler's gut-check
    performance in that race fed right into the film's original plot. They
    could've held on a long prominent disclaimer at the end of the film
    spilling the beans on Tyler's doping problems.

    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
    I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the
    trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view,
    the most insidious of traitors."
    George H.W. Bush, April 16, 1999,

  2. John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    Jimmy Caspar's wife is cute. [link to Jimmy not his wife]

    Do you have the correct link, please?

    --
    E. Dronkert

  3. On Sun, 28 May 2006 21:11:09 -0600, Raptor <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    But it's IMAX, it's bike racing, it's the Tour de France, and it's 2003.
    So go see it anyway.

    Jimmy Caspar's wife is cute. Heck, Jimmy Caspar is cute too.

    http://www.wiredtowinthemovie.com/profile_jimmycasper.html

    JT

    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  4. "Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    After Tyler got dumped for (alleged) doping in 2004, they hacked and slashed
    the footage

    Quoted message said:

    to effectively cut him out.

    You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.

  5. "Frank Drackman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Raptor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    After Tyler got dumped for (alleged) doping in 2004, they hacked and
    slashed the footage

    Quoted message said:

    to effectively cut him out.

    You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.

    Has Tyler admitted he doped? I confess that I haven't followed his
    story in any great detail but, like a lot of other people, he seemed to
    me like the very last person one would expect to be taking
    performance-enhancing drugs.

    -S-

  6. Steve Freides said:
    Quoted message said:

    You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.

    Has Tyler admitted he doped?

    No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

  7. "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Steve Freides said:
    Quoted message said:

    You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.

    Has Tyler admitted he doped?

    No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

    That's a shame - he seemed like such a nice guy.

    -S-

  8. Ron Ruff said:
    Steve Freides said:
    Quoted message said:

    You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.


    Has Tyler admitted he doped?

    No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

    I don't know how clear it is. The test is new and still being vetted.
    There was doubt about the charges, but it's a matter of hotly debated
    opinion as to whether it was reasonable doubt.

    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
    I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the
    trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view,
    the most insidious of traitors."
    George H.W. Bush, April 16, 1999,

  9. Raptor said:
    Ron Ruff said:
    Steve Freides said:

    > You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.
    Has Tyler admitted he doped?

    No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

    I don't know how clear it is. The test is new and still being vetted.
    There was doubt about the charges, but it's a matter of hotly debated
    opinion as to whether it was reasonable doubt.

    The question of whether the earth is spherical is hotly debated among
    some people:
    http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

    The fact that people are willing to debate a subject ("hotly" or not)
    does not indicate that reasonable people consider the subject to be in
    doubt.

  10. "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:4e17jtF1cjg28U1
    @individual.net:

    Quoted message said:

    "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Steve Freides said:

    > You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.

    Has Tyler admitted he doped?

    No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

    That's a shame - he seemed like such a nice guy.

    -S-

    Why would he suddenly not be a nice guy anymore?

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:4e17jtF1cjg28U1
    @individual.net:

    Quoted message said:

    "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Steve Freides wrote:
    > > You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.
    >
    > Has Tyler admitted he doped?

    No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

    That's a shame - he seemed like such a nice guy.

    -S-

    Why would he suddenly not be a nice guy anymore?

    One can, after a fashion, accept that maybe a "nice guy" would cheat at
    bike racing, if for no other reason than being driven to do so by a
    belief that everyone else was cheating, and therefore there was only one
    way to the front of the pack, or because he sincerely believed the
    anti-doping rules were wrong and was a conscientious objector.

    But a nice guy wouldn't then swear on his dead dog's grave that he
    hadn't done the deed.

    So, IF Tyler Hamilton did the doping he's accused of, then he would fall
    outside of most people's definition of a nice guy.

    You can tell the nice guys by where they finish,

    --
    Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
    "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
    to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

  12. "Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:4e17jtF1cjg28U1
    @individual.net:

    Quoted message said:

    "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > Steve Freides wrote:
    >> > You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.
    >>
    >> Has Tyler admitted he doped?
    >
    > No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

    That's a shame - he seemed like such a nice guy.

    -S-

    Why would he suddenly not be a nice guy anymore?

    One can, after a fashion, accept that maybe a "nice guy" would cheat
    at
    bike racing, if for no other reason than being driven to do so by a
    belief that everyone else was cheating, and therefore there was only
    one
    way to the front of the pack, or because he sincerely believed the
    anti-doping rules were wrong and was a conscientious objector.

    But a nice guy wouldn't then swear on his dead dog's grave that he
    hadn't done the deed.

    So, IF Tyler Hamilton did the doping he's accused of, then he would
    fall
    outside of most people's definition of a nice guy.

    You can tell the nice guys by where they finish,

    What I meant by "nice guy" is, among other things, someone who would
    never consider cheating, be it drugs or something else. He comes across
    as someone who would never do this.

    Now I know the world is full of good liars, so this is all completely
    subjective on my part. Given what I've heard to date, I don't believe
    he did the deed of which he's accused.

    -S-

  13. Ron Ruff said:

    No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

    Steve Freides said:
    Quoted message said:

    That's a shame - he seemed like such a nice guy.

    Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    Why would he suddenly not be a nice guy anymore?

    Vampire blood ?

  14. Steve Freides said:

    What I meant by "nice guy" is, among other things, someone who would
    never consider cheating, be it drugs or something else. He comes across
    as someone who would never do this.

    If everybody's doing it then he (and most of the others) probably don't
    see it as 'cheating'.

  15. "Donald Munro" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Steve Freides said:

    What I meant by "nice guy" is, among other things, someone who would
    never consider cheating, be it drugs or something else. He comes
    across
    as someone who would never do this.

    If everybody's doing it then he (and most of the others) probably
    don't
    see it as 'cheating'.

    I guess that depends on who you are - I certainly wouldn't agree with
    that for myself.

    -S-

  16. Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:4e17jtF1cjg28U1 @individual.net:

    Quoted message said:

    "Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > Steve Freides wrote:
    >> > You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.
    >>
    >> Has Tyler admitted he doped?
    >
    > No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

    That's a shame - he seemed like such a nice guy.

    -S-

    Why would he suddenly not be a nice guy anymore?

    One can, after a fashion, accept that maybe a "nice guy" would cheat
    at bike racing, if for no other reason than being driven to do so by a
    belief that everyone else was cheating, and therefore there was only
    one way to the front of the pack, or because he sincerely believed the
    anti-doping rules were wrong and was a conscientious objector.

    But a nice guy wouldn't then swear on his dead dog's grave that he
    hadn't done the deed.

    So, IF Tyler Hamilton did the doping he's accused of, then he would
    fall outside of most people's definition of a nice guy.

    You can tell the nice guys by where they finish,

    Public statements are not a very good measure of someone's character.
    "Nice guys" prove themselves as persons, not by talking about their dogs
    during press conferences.

  17. Steve Freides said:

    What I meant by "nice guy" is, among other things, someone who would
    never consider cheating, be it drugs or something else. He comes across
    as someone who would never do this.

    Now I know the world is full of good liars, so this is all completely
    subjective on my part. Given what I've heard to date, I don't believe
    he did the deed of which he's accused.

    One of Tyler's problems is that he is an exceptionally poor liar.
    The test has points of attack, but he chose his point (a chimeric
    twin) very poorly. And the initial explanation, a non-existent
    surgical event... you can tell he had never prepared for a failed
    test. What was he thinking?

    Bob Schwartz

  18. Tim Lines said:
    Raptor said:
    Ron Ruff said:

    Steve Freides wrote:
    >> You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.
    > Has Tyler admitted he doped?

    No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

    I don't know how clear it is. The test is new and still being vetted.
    There was doubt about the charges, but it's a matter of hotly debated
    opinion as to whether it was reasonable doubt.

    The question of whether the earth is spherical is hotly debated among
    some people:
    http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

    The fact that people are willing to debate a subject ("hotly" or not)
    does not indicate that reasonable people consider the subject to be in
    doubt.

    The doubt is there. (Has ANYONE asserted that the test is infallible?)
    The debate is over whether the doubt is reasonable or not.

    --
    Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
    I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the
    trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view,
    the most insidious of traitors."
    George H.W. Bush, April 16, 1999,

  19. Raptor said:
    Tim Lines said:
    Raptor said:

    Ron Ruff wrote:

    > Steve Freides wrote:
    >
    >>> You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.
    >>
    >> Has Tyler admitted he doped?
    >
    >
    > No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.

    I don't know how clear it is. The test is new and still being vetted.
    There was doubt about the charges, but it's a matter of hotly debated
    opinion as to whether it was reasonable doubt.

    The question of whether the earth is spherical is hotly debated among
    some people:
    http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

    The fact that people are willing to debate a subject ("hotly" or not)
    does not indicate that reasonable people consider the subject to be in
    doubt.

    The doubt is there. (Has ANYONE asserted that the test is infallible?)
    The debate is over whether the doubt is reasonable or not.


    The test has been used in medical situations for years, and life or
    death depends on a correct result. The doubt is not reasonable.

  20. Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Jonathan v.d. Sluis said:

    "Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    news:4e17jtF1cjg28U1 @individual.net:

    >"Ron Ruff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >>Steve Freides wrote:
    >>
    >>>>You can remove (alleged) from the sentence.
    >>>
    >>>Has Tyler admitted he doped?
    >>
    >>No... but he clearly had some elses blood in his body.
    >
    >That's a shame - he seemed like such a nice guy.
    >
    >-S-
    >
    >
    >

    Why would he suddenly not be a nice guy anymore?

    One can, after a fashion, accept that maybe a "nice guy" would cheat
    at bike racing, if for no other reason than being driven to do so by a
    belief that everyone else was cheating, and therefore there was only
    one way to the front of the pack, or because he sincerely believed the
    anti-doping rules were wrong and was a conscientious objector.

    But a nice guy wouldn't then swear on his dead dog's grave that he
    hadn't done the deed.

    So, IF Tyler Hamilton did the doping he's accused of, then he would
    fall outside of most people's definition of a nice guy.

    You can tell the nice guys by where they finish,

    Public statements are not a very good measure of someone's character.
    "Nice guys" prove themselves as persons, not by talking about their dogs
    during press conferences.

    I was thinking of a way to say this, but it seems you've already covered
    it nicely.

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.