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Winter walking gear & clothing

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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30 December 2004
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3 January 2005
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Darren G
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  1. Given the other recent threads on here (and the Feb winter skills
    course) what would people recommend sticking in the car for a weekend in
    the snow. I think so far we've identified (in no order):

    - ski goggles (Aldi!)
    - sunglasses
    - ice axe
    - crampons
    - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)
    - fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!

    What else would people recommend, in particular clothing (eg. DWR
    trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers, ...)

    And wishing a happy, prosperous and outdoorsy new year to all.
    Darren
    --
    Darren
    mail to darren not ng

  2. "Darren G" <[email hidden]> wrote

    ......what would people recommend sticking in the car for a weekend in

    Quoted message said:

    the snow. I think so far we've identified (in no order):

    - ski goggles (Aldi!)
    - sunglasses

    Sunglasses should do you. Not really a goggles person. You can tape
    bits to the side of glasses if you want to keep out more glare.

    Quoted message said:

    - ice axe
    - crampons
    - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)

    Yup...I'd definately take some boots! 4 season will be expensive. Are
    you living/going to live in Scotland? Unless you're going to be out
    there a lot in winter is it worth shelling out that amount of money?
    Perhaps buy your boots and crampons at the same time from a decent
    shop, taking their advice. I've got by with three season for walking.
    Hell, I went up Middle Teton in trainers and crampons (not
    recommended).

    Quoted message said:

    - fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!

    Leave the beer for the pub. Take a walkers flask full of hot orange or
    sweet tea.

    Quoted message said:


    What else would people recommend, in particular clothing (eg. DWR
    trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers, ...)

    I use overtrousers. If the sun comes out it can get warm. If i can get
    away with it they stay in my bag! Don't forget a decent pair of
    gloves - its easy to have a miserable day because your fingers are
    painfully cold in inadequate gloves.

    Quoted message said:


    And wishing a happy, prosperous and outdoorsy new year to all.

    ....and to you. Hope you find some decent snow.

    Graham

  3. "Darren G" <[email hidden]> wrote

    ......what would people recommend sticking in the car for a weekend in

    Quoted message said:

    the snow. I think so far we've identified (in no order):

    - ski goggles (Aldi!)
    - sunglasses

    Sunglasses should do you. Not really a goggles person. You can tape
    bits to the side of glasses if you want to keep out more glare.

    Quoted message said:

    - ice axe
    - crampons
    - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)

    Yup...I'd definately take some boots! 4 season will be expensive. Are
    you living/going to live in Scotland? Unless you're going to be out
    there a lot in winter is it worth shelling out that amount of money?
    Perhaps buy your boots and crampons at the same time from a decent
    shop, taking their advice. I've got by with three season for walking.
    Hell, I went up Middle Teton in trainers and crampons (not
    recommended).

    Quoted message said:

    - fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!

    Leave the beer for the pub. Take a walkers flask full of hot orange or
    sweet tea.

    Quoted message said:


    What else would people recommend, in particular clothing (eg. DWR
    trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers, ...)

    I use overtrousers. If the sun comes out it can get warm. If i can get
    away with it they stay in my bag! Don't forget a decent pair of
    gloves - its easy to have a miserable day because your fingers are
    painfully cold in inadequate gloves.

    Quoted message said:


    And wishing a happy, prosperous and outdoorsy new year to all.

    ....and to you. Hope you find some decent snow.

    Graham

  4. spongebob said:

    Sunglasses should do you. Not really a goggles person. You can tape
    bits to the side of glasses if you want to keep out more glare.

    That's what I thought, until I spent a day in heavy windblown snow and
    spindrift and couldn't see anything much for large chunks of the day.
    Snow gets back behind the lenses, even with proper side protectors,
    faster than it can be cleared. Though sunglasses are generally more
    comfortable and accordingly preferable when they're enough, if you go
    past their limits you really get to see the difference. I found out the
    hard way, I'd suggest learning from my bad experience rather than your own!

    Quoted message said:

    Leave the beer for the pub. Take a walkers flask full of hot orange or
    sweet tea.

    More useful on the hill, granted. For an alcoholic morale boost a quick
    snifter of spirit from a hip flask can be nice, but in the grander
    scheme of it alcohol actually cools you down, so like chocolate and its
    attendant sugar rush with following insulin over-compensation it's more
    about morale than anything else. On the subject of chocolate, below
    freezing it gets rather tough and loses some of its appeal (if you can
    imagine such a thing!). Marzipan, OTOH, remains malleable and very
    nice. Compromise with a Ritter Sport marzipan bar, where not being
    solid chocolate you can still bite through it and it's good German plain
    chocolate with Actual Cocoa Mass in tangible quantities, so tastes much
    better than Cadbury's etc. Or take chocolate in liquid form in a flask.
    Green and Blacks and Thorntons both v. good.

    Quoted message said:

    I use overtrousers. If the sun comes out it can get warm. If i can get
    away with it they stay in my bag! Don't forget a decent pair of
    gloves - its easy to have a miserable day because your fingers are
    painfully cold in inadequate gloves.

    I usually take gloves, backup gloves and emergency backup super mitts.
    For winter a Serious Pair should be available in the bag, either
    dachsdein mitts or double layer fleece/pile plus shell mitts. Mitts are
    warmer than gloves, thick gloves give damn all dexterity anyway IME so I
    don't see why to use them rather than mitts (mitts are cheaper too).
    They should have a wrist loop so you don't drop them, don't bother with
    clips that attach to a shell jacket, they're no use at all if you want
    to take your shell jacket off (which is entirely possible, going up a
    steep snow climb in the sun is hot work, but the axe head draws a lot of
    heat from your hands without serious mitts/gloves). If they don't have
    a wrist loop, sew one on: it's not hard.
    A lighter pair of gloves is often all you need but if/when they get
    soaked through they can get cold, where a fresh backup light pair is
    often better than moving for the Mitts Of Last Resort.

    Similarly, I usually have more than one hat available. A balaclava is
    very well worth it as it can be used in conjunction with other hats.
    Mine is a Craghoppers one in Polartec 100 and the best I've come across
    with a long enough neck to keep it covered and a face hole sized so I
    can select between having it guard up to my nose, just my chin, or not
    cover my face at all. And you can roll it up as a standard hat too.
    Mountain caps are very good, even better with a balaclava to fill in the
    gaps.

    If you'll be sitting in snow a lot over the day then a damp bum is
    highly likely, even with overtrousers. Good wicking underwear will mean
    the difference between it staying wet, or drying out. I can assure you
    the latter is greatly preferable!

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  5. Darren G said:

    Given the other recent threads on here (and the Feb
    winter skills course) what would people recommend
    sticking in the car for a weekend in the snow. I think
    so far we've identified (in no order):

    - ski goggles (Aldi!)
    - sunglasses
    - ice axe
    - crampons
    - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)
    - fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!

    What else would people recommend, in particular clothing
    (eg. DWR trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers,
    ...)

    And wishing a happy, prosperous and outdoorsy new year to
    all.
    Darren

    How about one of those headbands that cover your ears. Makes you look daft
    but really good if your working hard and too hot for a hat. Go with the
    mitts, you can experiment with wearing fleece gloves with mitts on top so
    that you can take off the mitts to do stuff and not still have some
    protection.

    --
    Muzz
    reply to uglyduck NOT spamfrog

  6. "Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    spongebob said:

    Sunglasses should do you. Not really a goggles person. You can tape
    bits to the side of glasses if you want to keep out more glare.

    That's what I thought, until I spent a day in heavy windblown snow and
    spindrift and couldn't see anything much for large chunks of the day.
    Snow gets back behind the lenses, even with proper side protectors,
    faster than it can be cleared. Though sunglasses are generally more
    comfortable and accordingly preferable when they're enough, if you go
    past their limits you really get to see the difference. I found out the
    hard way, I'd suggest learning from my bad experience rather than your


    own!

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Leave the beer for the pub. Take a walkers flask full of hot orange or
    sweet tea.

    More useful on the hill, granted. For an alcoholic morale boost a quick
    snifter of spirit from a hip flask can be nice, but in the grander
    scheme of it alcohol actually cools you down, so like chocolate and its
    attendant sugar rush with following insulin over-compensation it's more
    about morale than anything else. On the subject of chocolate, below
    freezing it gets rather tough and loses some of its appeal (if you can
    imagine such a thing!). Marzipan, OTOH, remains malleable and very
    nice. Compromise with a Ritter Sport marzipan bar, where not being
    solid chocolate you can still bite through it and it's good German plain
    chocolate with Actual Cocoa Mass in tangible quantities, so tastes much
    better than Cadbury's etc. Or take chocolate in liquid form in a flask.
    Green and Blacks and Thorntons both v. good.

    Quoted message said:

    I use overtrousers. If the sun comes out it can get warm. If i can get
    away with it they stay in my bag! Don't forget a decent pair of
    gloves - its easy to have a miserable day because your fingers are
    painfully cold in inadequate gloves.

    I usually take gloves, backup gloves and emergency backup super mitts.
    For winter a Serious Pair should be available in the bag, either
    dachsdein mitts or double layer fleece/pile plus shell mitts. Mitts are
    warmer than gloves, thick gloves give damn all dexterity anyway IME so I
    don't see why to use them rather than mitts (mitts are cheaper too).
    They should have a wrist loop so you don't drop them,

    I can never quite understand why mitts designed for the mountain enviroment
    don't come with elasticated wrist loops as standard, if you lost your mitts
    in full blown scottish mountain winter conditions (and it is very feasable
    that they may just blow away while rumaging in your sack) you may die, as
    over the top as that may seem loosing your mitts on a winters climb could
    very well spell a death sentance!

  7. On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:53:21 -0000, Darren G <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)

    I took my Raichle's into the walking shop for crampons y/day. The
    bloke there tried to break one in half, failed and then conceded that
    he could fit a Grivel G10 to it. I'm no longer planning to hire boots
    for the weekend of snow-filled fun and frolics :-)

    Quoted message said:

    - fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!

    Mmmm!

    Quoted message said:

    What else would people recommend, in particular clothing (eg. DWR
    trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers, ...)

    I wore my new Paramo trousers on a foul overnight camp in the Lakes
    y/day, and was very impressed with them (except for the way they
    totally soaked my tent as soon as I got in, as I had feard). I'm going
    to take them to Scotland.

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

  8. Peter Clinch said:

    If you'll be sitting in snow a lot over the day then a damp bum is
    highly likely, even with overtrousers. Good wicking underwear will mean
    the difference between it staying wet, or drying out. I can assure you
    the latter is greatly preferable!

    I shall wear my "technical briefs"! (Why is everything technical,
    nowadays?)

    Pete, what's the probability that I will rip my trousers due to never
    having used crampons or an ice axe before?

    I'm not sure whether to wear waterproof overtrousers, or just wear my
    normal Ron Hills and accept that I'll get a cold, wet bum.

    Judith

  9. On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:05:07 +0000, Judith
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not sure whether to wear waterproof overtrousers, or just wear my
    normal Ron Hills and accept that I'll get a cold, wet bum.

    I'd definitely go for the overtrousers, if I were you. I reckon Ron
    Hills alone would probably be v. cold, particularly since it sounds as
    though (i) we'll be sliding around in the snow, and (ii) we'll be out
    there for quite a long time.

    Best wishes,
    --
    ,,
    (**)PeeWiglet~~
    / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

  10. "spamfrog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Darren G said:

    Given the other recent threads on here (and the Feb
    winter skills course) what would people recommend
    sticking in the car for a weekend in the snow. I think
    so far we've identified (in no order):

    - ski goggles (Aldi!)
    - sunglasses
    - ice axe
    - crampons
    - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)
    - fruit cake, chocolate & beer!!!

    What else would people recommend, in particular clothing
    (eg. DWR trousers or trousers/tights plus overtrousers,
    ...)

    And wishing a happy, prosperous and outdoorsy new year to
    all.
    Darren

    How about one of those headbands that cover your ears. Makes you look daft
    but really good if your working hard and too hot for a hat. Go with the
    mitts, you can experiment with wearing fleece gloves with mitts on top so
    that you can take off the mitts to do stuff and not still have some
    protection.

    Ear warmers are - as you say - very useful. However, I no longer take mine
    as I carry a buff which has a multitude of uses.

    To the list, I'd add:

    - a torch (headtorch is best - the little Petzl models can be fastened round
    the wrist etc to reduce glare in poor conditions).
    - trekking poles - with winter baskets.
    - an extra warm top (thin fleece etc) - if you sweat as much as I do when
    climbing it's handy to have a dry base layer)
    - lip salve
    - sunscreen (yes - really. Apply to the upper eyelids as they get very burnt
    in sunlit snow).
    - if its very deep snow, a lightweight shovel can be handy

    and, controversially perhaps, a GPS. (there - said it).
    I've been on the full winter walking course at Glenmore, I've done the micro
    navigation (exercised and real) and would suggest that everyone else do
    likewise. However, when the chips are down, the GPS is quicker, more
    accurate and less error-prone.

    To all of this, I'd add a sleeping bag, wellies, shovel and spare flask(with
    hot drink) to be kept in the car. I've only needed this once - when I got
    stuck on a closed section of the Devils Elbow waiting on the gritter
    arriving from Blairgowrie - but I was might glad of it all.

    As for legwear, I've used various combinations over the years. Last years
    favourite was Ronhills (Winter Escape DXB) with Paclite overtrousers when
    necessary. Gaiters are a must.

    Oh - and don't forget your camera. You'll blow the friends and family away
    with a few good winter shots.

    druidh

  11. In message <[email hidden]>, Judith
    <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:
    Peter Clinch said:

    If you'll be sitting in snow a lot over the day then a damp bum is
    highly likely, even with overtrousers. Good wicking underwear will mean
    the difference between it staying wet, or drying out. I can assure you
    the latter is greatly preferable!

    I shall wear my "technical briefs"! (Why is everything technical,
    nowadays?)

    It sounds impressive :-).

    Quoted message said:


    Pete, what's the probability that I will rip my trousers due to never
    having used crampons or an ice axe before?

    I'm not Pete but it's possible, depending on how clumsy or careful you
    are. Wearing gaiters minimises the risk - you're not likely to catch
    clothing above the knee. If you haven't got any gaiters a cheap basic
    pair will do and are inexpensive to replace if you do tear them. Duct
    tape is good for emergency repairs to gaiters and overtrousers.

    Quoted message said:


    I'm not sure whether to wear waterproof overtrousers, or just wear my
    normal Ron Hills and accept that I'll get a cold, wet bum.

    I'd only wear overtrousers if they are needed for rain or wind. They do
    make good waterproof seats though.

  12. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:53:21 -0000, Darren G <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    - boots (views on 3 or 4 seasons seem to vary)

    I took my Raichle's into the walking shop for crampons y/day. The
    bloke there tried to break one in half, failed and then conceded that
    he could fit a Grivel G10 to it. I'm no longer planning to hire boots
    for the weekend of snow-filled fun and frolics :-)


    Which ones have you got? Mountain Guide GTX or Mountain Trail GTX?

    I did try on some rather nice Scarpa Mantas the other day which for a
    solid boot actually felt pretty 'walkable'. Managed to walk out of the
    shop without buying though.

    Quoted message said:


    I wore my new Paramo trousers on a foul overnight camp in the Lakes
    y/day, and was very impressed with them (except for the way they
    totally soaked my tent as soon as I got in, as I had feard). I'm going
    to take them to Scotland.

    I was looking at some the other day as they seem to have the balance
    between warmth and coping with getting wet to make them ideal for the
    snow, especially as I hate overtrousers.

    --
    Darren
    mail to darren not ng

  13. On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:19:53 -0000, Darren G <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    I did try on some rather nice Scarpa Mantas the other day which for a
    solid boot actually felt pretty 'walkable'. Managed to walk out of the
    shop without buying though.

    Quoted message said:


    What! You STOLE them?! .... oh, I see what you mean.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I wore my new Paramo trousers on a foul overnight camp in the Lakes
    y/day, and was very impressed with them (except for the way they
    totally soaked my tent as soon as I got in, as I had feard). I'm going
    to take them to Scotland.

    I was looking at some the other day as they seem to have the balance
    between warmth and coping with getting wet to make them ideal for the
    snow, especially as I hate overtrousers.

    I wonder if Paramo would be too hot for me? Everyone's opinion
    differs.... and they seem a bit too expensive to try on a whim. :-(

    Judith

  14. Chris Townsend said:
    Quoted message said:

    I shall wear my "technical briefs"! (Why is everything technical,
    nowadays?)

    It sounds impressive :-).

    They're like school gym knickers ..... but perhaps we should stop this
    conversation right here.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Pete, what's the probability that I will rip my trousers due to never
    having used crampons or an ice axe before?

    I'm not Pete but it's possible, depending on how clumsy or careful you
    are. Wearing gaiters minimises the risk - you're not likely to catch
    clothing above the knee.

    Good point. Even with my (terrible) sense of balance I think I can
    avoid kicking my own thighs. Yes, I think that should be quite a
    comfortable combination: Ron Hills (with or without longjohns) and
    full length gaiters. I typically wear ankle gaiters but that's just
    to keep brambles and gorse out of my socks - I'll endeavour to find my
    knee-high gaiters.

    Quoted message said:

    If you haven't got any gaiters a cheap basic
    pair will do and are inexpensive to replace if you do tear them. Duct
    tape is good for emergency repairs to gaiters and overtrousers.

    I don't know where my gaiters are ..... but I do know where the gaffer
    tape is! Thanks for the tip.

    Judith

  15. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 23:19:53 -0000, Darren G <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    I did try on some rather nice Scarpa Mantas the other day which for a
    solid boot actually felt pretty 'walkable'. Managed to walk out of the
    shop without buying though.

    Quoted message said:


    What! You STOLE them?! .... oh, I see what you mean.

    SHHHH! I bet they are wondering why they have an old pair of Merrells
    knocking around :-)

    Quoted message said:

    I wonder if Paramo would be too hot for me? Everyone's opinion
    differs.... and they seem a bit too expensive to try on a whim. :-(

    That's my one concern. I will sweat at the sight of a hill, and don;t
    think I could go for a paramo jacket, but my legs don't seem to be as
    bad as the upper half, so I reckon the trousers might work. And
    probably not any hotter than wearing overtrousers.

    --
    Darren
    mail to darren not ng

  16. I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
    from Peewiglet contained the following:

    Quoted message said:

    I wore my new Paramo trousers on a foul overnight camp in the Lakes
    y/day, and was very impressed with them (except for the way they
    totally soaked my tent as soon as I got in, as I had feard).

    They get wet? Not sure I understand this.

    --
    Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
    It's only Usenet, no one dies.
    My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
    Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

  17. Judith <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:
    Chris Townsend said:
    Quoted message said:

    I shall wear my "technical briefs"! (Why is everything technical,
    nowadays?)

    It sounds impressive :-).

    They're like school gym knickers ..... but perhaps we should stop this
    conversation right here.


    <Sigh>....
    Just when it was getting interesting.
    --
    Gordon Harris
    (Wearing his mindless Boxer shorts)

  18. Judith <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:


    I wonder if Paramo would be too hot for me? Everyone's opinion
    differs.... and they seem a bit too expensive to try on a whim. :-(


    I can wear them for 'hanging around' all day at this time of year, and
    they don't become as uncomfortable as jeans and long johns do when worn
    indoors. They have full length zip vents backed up by press studs
    for decency. :-)
    --
    Gordon Harris

  19. Geoff Berrow <[email hidden]> writes

    Quoted message said:

    I noticed that Message-ID: <[email hidden]>
    from Peewiglet contained the following:

    Quoted message said:

    I wore my new Paramo trousers on a foul overnight camp in the Lakes
    y/day, and was very impressed with them (except for the way they
    totally soaked my tent as soon as I got in, as I had feard).

    They get wet? Not sure I understand this.


    Surface wet. The water beads on them. She should shake herself
    like a dog before entering the tent. :-)
    --
    Gordon Harris

  20. Judith said:

    I shall wear my "technical briefs"! (Why is everything technical,
    nowadays?)

    A marketing term meaning "better". c.f. "Extreme", "Titanium" and the
    letter 'X'... ;-)

    Quoted message said:

    Pete, what's the probability that I will rip my trousers due to never
    having used crampons or an ice axe before?

    Finite, certainly. If you've got a pair of old overtrousers you can use
    for axe braking then that's highly recommended as sliding downhills on
    modern lightweight ones isn't really what they're built for. You won't
    be in crampons for the braking (it's actually more dangerous to practice
    slides in crampons than not practising!) but you may well destroy
    anything remotely baggy around the ankle area with a crampon while
    moving in them.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not sure whether to wear waterproof overtrousers, or just wear my
    normal Ron Hills and accept that I'll get a cold, wet bum.

    Just Tracksters would get a bit chilly, but a close stretch fit will
    minimise the chance of crampon damage and fleece tights are warmer than
    Tracksters (another reason I like Schoeller Dryskin for winter legwear)
    and associated tripping over. In either case, an old pair of tatty
    overtrousers that can be made tattier without crying would be a good idea.
    Another thing about overtrousers is they make sliding easier, so you can
    practise braking on less precipitous slopes.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

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