Winter training in the northeast

If it's hilly terrain you are looking at ice and shadow on the north
side of most hills. And likely you will have some wind.

Anything below 45 degrees, no wind and sunny is too much for me but I
wouldn't be doing 4-6 hours either so what do I know.

A TV helps with trainer time but there's just no way around the
boredom of it.

Musashi

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:01:30 -0800, Ueyn Block <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'll be visiting upstate New York for 10 days around Christmas and really
don't want to be off the bike for that long. I dislike long hours on the
trainer and spin classes are not much better... I mostly want to do long,
base fitness rides (4-6 hours).

I'm contemplating using my United vouchers to bring the bike, but I'm
starting to think maybe that's crazy. I'm a Californian, but I've spent
plenty of early mornings riding here in 29-35 degree weather and found it to
be comfortable when dressed appropriately. The average daytime high in
Albany, NY is about 33 F in late December and I will have the freedom to
ride in the middle of the day when it's warmest.

My main concern: ice on the roads. Is it just too risky to be riding about
in sub-freezing weather because of possible icy patches? What do you
cold-climate folks think? At what temperature do you call it quits and only
use the trainer?

Thanks,
Ueyn

ueyn [at] stanford [dot] edu

PS: Anyone in the Albany area looking for base-riding company over the
holidays, feel free to email me.

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:01:30 -0800, Ueyn Block <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The average daytime high in
Albany, NY is about 33 F in late December and I will have the freedom to
ride in the middle of the day when it's warmest.

That's doable, but not fun. For me 4 hours would be the limit at that
temp. Maybe 4.5. Not six.

Quoted message said:

At what temperature do you call it quits and only
use the trainer?

Depends on the goal of the ride. If it's just endurance, then with
good clothes you go out. But high intensity work is far more
productive indoors.

If I was in Albany and could manage it, I'd tend to nordic ski for
three or four hours a day and throw in an hour on the wind trainer
ever day or so. That'd be way more fun. Prospect Mountain VT is one
hour away and rents equipment I think. Not sure if they will open for
these holidays.

JT

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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:01:30 -0800, Ueyn Block <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The average daytime high in
Albany, NY is about 33 F in late December and I will have the freedom to
ride in the middle of the day when it's warmest.

That's doable, but not fun. For me 4 hours would be the limit at that
temp. Maybe 4.5. Not six.

Quoted message said:

At what temperature do you call it quits and only
use the trainer?

Depends on the goal of the ride. If it's just endurance, then with
good clothes you go out. But high intensity work is far more
productive indoors.

If I was in Albany and could manage it, I'd tend to nordic ski for
three or four hours a day and throw in an hour on the wind trainer
ever day or so. That'd be way more fun. Prospect Mountain VT is one
hour away and rents equipment I think. Not sure if they will open for
these holidays.

JT

May they all be closed this winter for lack of snow! Riding in NY and NE is
not generally a problem in winter if there is little snow. For th op, bring
you machine and put your nose outside. You'll probably be able to ride.
Here's a contact for you in that area:
http://webmhcc.org/v-web/portal/cms/index.php

Ueyn Block said:

I'll be visiting upstate New York for 10 days around Christmas and really
don't want to be off the bike for that long. I dislike long hours on the
trainer and spin classes are not much better... I mostly want to do long,
base fitness rides (4-6 hours).
<snip>

Even if you're a NorCal California weather wuss, I think you'll find the Great White North to be a bit on the uncomfortable side, especially for base miles. There's a big difference between a chilly Cali morning and a freezing ass cold New York day. But more power to ya if you want to ride in that stuff.
If I were you, I would leave the bike at home and rent some XC skis like JFT suggested below. Or bring your hiking boots and head up to Lake Placid and hike the High Peaks region if there's no snow. Or snowshoe if there is. The Adirondacks is (are?) one of the oldest protected natural areas in the USA and are extraordinarily beautiful. The trail through Avalanche Pass is fantastic - it looks like something out of a movie.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:39:31 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

May they all be closed this winter for lack of snow!

That;s not nice. I've been hoping for snow and will be on it in a few
days.

Quoted message said:

Riding in NY and NE is
not generally a problem in winter if there is little snow.

Even when there is, it's not that bad if the roads are plowed and you
can get out in the daylight. Even when I didn't ski much I loved
really bad winters because too many people just couldn't deal with it.
Though if I was trying to do racing program beyond local (like
Pedalchick) that'd be a handicap.

JT

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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:39:31 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

May they all be closed this winter for lack of snow!

That;s not nice. I've been hoping for snow and will be on it in a few
days.

I have no problem with ALL the snow being where you are.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Riding in NY and NE is
not generally a problem in winter if there is little snow.

Even when there is, it's not that bad if the roads are plowed and you
can get out in the daylight. Even when I didn't ski much I loved
really bad winters because too many people just couldn't deal with it.

Usually, it's a matter of looking for ice. Once you've been out a few times
it gets easier to predict and spot on the road. It helps if you have a
regular route used at a specific time of day so that you can play the winter
shadows.

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:39:31 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

May they all be closed this winter for lack of snow!

That;s not nice. I've been hoping for snow and will be on it in a

few

Quoted message said:

days.

Quoted message said:

Riding in NY and NE is
not generally a problem in winter if there is little snow.

Even when there is, it's not that bad if the roads are plowed and you
can get out in the daylight. Even when I didn't ski much I loved
really bad winters because too many people just couldn't deal with

it.

Quoted message said:

Though if I was trying to do racing program beyond local (like
Pedalchick) that'd be a handicap.

JT

Ouch, was that a dig at me? I've done plenty of 4 hour rides in below
freezing weather, thank you very much, but if I was coming from
California on vacation I don't think that's the way I'd want to spend
my time.

In fact, I think I will head to California to get my base miles. It's
like 20 degrees outside today. Brrr. And I'm not even in the Great
White North.

Ueyn Block <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

My main concern: ice on the roads. Is it just too risky to be riding
about in sub-freezing weather because of possible icy patches?

Got a `cross bike? Bring that. Off road in the snow is a lovely experience.

pedalchick said:

In fact, I think I will head to California to get my base miles. It's
like 20 degrees outside today. Brrr. And I'm not even in the Great
White North.

Meanwhile, in Santa Barbara today, it is expected to reach the mid 70s.
There's not a cloud in the sky and zero wind. I think I'll do a 3-hr ride
w/o leg- or arm-warmers. Ahhhh....

Mark
(now, that wasn't very nice was it!?!)

Ueyn Block said:

I'll be visiting upstate New York for 10 days around Christmas and really
don't want to be off the bike for that long.

Ten days off the bike in December will not kill you. A certain amount
of time off the bike in the off season is a good thing. If you have
not spent 10 days off the bike in a while then leave the bike at home.

Pedalchick is on the right track. Do something different. Traveling
with a bike during the busy season is not something I would put a
lot of effort into.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

Bob Schwartz said:

Ten days off the bike in December will not kill you. A certain amount
of time off the bike in the off season is a good thing. If you have
not spent 10 days off the bike in a while then leave the bike at home.

Yes, I took nearly three-weeks off after the track season ended in
September. The collegiate road racing season in CA starts the first week of
February and runs through early May... Thus training starts a bit earlier in
the year than for most racers -- December (and even November) is when we do
lots of long, easy rides.

Another issue for me is that when I go to NY I'll be coming off of a couple
weeks on crutches from some minor foot surgery. So adding ten days to that
period of time makes for a very long bike-less stretch.

Thanks to everyone for the useful advice.

-Ueyn

ueyn [at] stanford [dot] edu

If you're coming off a layoff, then jumping back into long miles in the
cold is not a good idea. I would bring my bike, but keep the rides
light and shorter (2 hrs, maybe 2.5). Hey, you should drive up to
Lapland Lake in the Adirondacks and go x-country skiing. A great
place, affordable, the rent and damn, they've got some hard trails.
Its about an hour from Albany.

Good Luck,
Chris Harnish
Exercise Physiologist and Coach
The Peaks Coaching Group

Quoted message said:

Meanwhile, in Santa Barbara today, it is expected to reach the mid 70s.
There's not a cloud in the sky and zero wind. I think I'll do a 3-hr ride
w/o leg- or arm-warmers. Ahhhh....

Mark
(now, that wasn't very nice was it!?!)

Ugh .... how boring !

There's nothing like xc skiing for a few hours, breathing cold, dense, oxygen
rich air to really open up the lungs and refresh one's body.

jw
milwaukee

On 14 Dec 2004 05:55:26 -0800, "pedalchick" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:39:31 GMT, "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

May they all be closed this winter for lack of snow!

That;s not nice. I've been hoping for snow and will be on it in a

few

Quoted message said:

days.

Quoted message said:

Riding in NY and NE is
not generally a problem in winter if there is little snow.

Even when there is, it's not that bad if the roads are plowed and you
can get out in the daylight. Even when I didn't ski much I loved
really bad winters because too many people just couldn't deal with

it.

Quoted message said:

Though if I was trying to do racing program beyond local (like
Pedalchick) that'd be a handicap.

JT

Ouch, was that a dig at me? I've done plenty of 4 hour rides in below
freezing weather, thank you very much, but if I was coming from
California on vacation I don't think that's the way I'd want to spend
my time.

No no not a dig. I was rambling on great the bad weather is for more
serious riders where I live during a "cycling team lasagna
competition" here in NYC (don't ask) and one of the participants, who
is also on a national program, pointed out it's a handicap when she
heads to California or down south in early season national-level
races. Which is true. She still puts in the time on the bike, but 4
hours in 50F weather is more productive usually than 4 hours at 35F.

JT

Quoted message said:

In fact, I think I will head to California to get my base miles. It's
like 20 degrees outside today. Brrr. And I'm not even in the Great
White North.

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I wouldn't put a good bike on the road if salt has been spread to melt
the ice. It will corrode in places you can't get to easily.

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't put a good bike on the road if salt has been spread to melt
the ice. It will corrode in places you can't get to easily.

Bikes are designed to be ridden. If you've got a winter bike, then
yeah, use it. But if you've only got one bike, ride it.

JT

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Ueyn Block said:

Try "fitness made simple" with John Basedow.

There are *no* tricky dance moves!

http://www.fitnessmadesimple.com/

gwhite said:

Ueyn Block wrote:

Try "fitness made simple" with John Basedow.

There are *no* tricky dance moves!

http://www.fitnessmadesimple.com/

holy [censored], that's funny. check this out, 6 for 39.95!

http://www.fitnessmadesimple.com/gallery.php

the difference between cold cali mornings and cold NE days is the ground temperature. in cali the air may be cold but the ground isnt, in NE the ground is as cold or a little warmer than the air, this changes conditions substantially.