Winter Skills equipment list

Judith said:

This is mainly aimed at those of us who are heading to the frozen
North in February, but join in if you have an opinion!

Climbmts have sent me the following equipment list:
----------------------------------

(snipped)

I'd add gaiters to this. Good for stopping snow getting in the top of
your boots.

Quoted message said:

I was planning to wear my mountain cap. I don't actually have a
fleece hat (although Aldi have them this week) - do you reckon a
woolly hat'll do? I mean, there's nothing special about fleece hats
is there?

(I guess I'm not telling you anything you don't already know) Fleece
hats will dry out quickly because they don't hold much moisture, and if
they don't get wet then they don't freeze. Wool can hold more moisture
and so is less effective when wet.

Quoted message said:

I've been going through periods of extreme self-doubt, worrying about
this course! I like cold weather, and I'm a sensible sort of person,
but I keep thinking that I've got no "proper" clothes or equipment and
I'll have to go and spend hundreds of pounds on new kit before the
course. (Bummer, hey PW!)

Does anyone have any advice about clothing I *must* have, or do you
reckon I'll get by with what I've got? It's only a weekend!

In North Wales, on Monday, it was bitter and I was snug in my Ron
Hills (the thick ones .... with Berghaus longjohns underneath), a long
sleeve Berghaus ACL, a Montane zip-up jacket, a woolly hat, thin
gloves and a scrim scarf. Do I need anything else? I have two pairs
of waterproof trousers. My usual pair are very thin and I would worry
about tearing them on crampons or axes. My other pair are thicker
and, supposedly, Moisture Vapour Permeable (but anything like that
makes me "glow"😉. I also have some padded/thermal ski trousers which
are a size too big but which I bought from Aldi with the intention of
using them for skiing if I ever go again. I borrowed a similar pair
for skiing in France and they were fine for that purpose.

When I did my winter skills there was lots of self-arrest practice,
involving throwing yourself down icy slopes. (Except there wasn't any
ice, so it was just whatever snow we could find.) This doesn't do a lot
for the outer kit, so consider taking and old crappy jacket for use on
the self-arrest stuff and your normal kit for the rest of the time.

As for 'proper' clothes and kit, the main difference with my winter
stuff and my summer stuff is that I wear a fleece _and_ a jacket and I
use my stronger cramponable boots. If your boots will take a crampon
then you'll likely be OK.

I'd suggest that you take more than one of just about everything if
possible, because some of your kit _will_ get wet (esp. gloves), and you
don't want to have to wear it again, still damp, the next day if you can
avoid it.

Colin

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:49:51 +0000, Judith
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Climbmts have sent me the following equipment list:
----------------------------------
40L rucksack
Map
Compass
Flask or Water Bottle
Head Torch & Spare Battery
Personal First Aid Kit
Trekking Poles (optional)
Spare Fleece Hat
Spare Gloves
Spare Mid Layer
Spare Food
Hillwalking Boots 4 season
10 or 12 point crampons
Ice Axe
(Technical Kit such as helmet will be provided)

Ooh! Mine's not come yet.

[...]

Quoted message said:

I was planning to wear my mountain cap. I don't actually have a
fleece hat (although Aldi have them this week) - do you reckon a
woolly hat'll do? I mean, there's nothing special about fleece hats
is there?

Not as far as I know, except that perhaps it dries a little quicker. I
should think they just mean a good, warm hat for use in cold and maybe
wet, wintry conditions. I see no reason why you can't take your wooly
one, if that's what works for you: certainly we're all being
encouraged to move back to wool for our socks and base layers at the
moment.

Quoted message said:

I've been going through periods of extreme self-doubt, worrying about
this course! I like cold weather, and I'm a sensible sort of person,
but I keep thinking that I've got no "proper" clothes or equipment and
I'll have to go and spend hundreds of pounds on new kit before the
course. (Bummer, hey PW!)

I really don't think there's any need to be anxious about it at all.
You walk all year round, so unless you're normally uncomfortable in
cold/wet weather I'm sure you've already got all the clothes you need.
That's my assumption, anyway, so if I'm wrong then no doubt I'll be
wet and/or cold in due course, as I'm planning to wear what already
works for me in wet and/or cold places.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any advice about clothing I *must* have, or do you
reckon I'll get by with what I've got? It's only a weekend!

In North Wales, on Monday, it was bitter and I was snug in my Ron
Hills (the thick ones .... with Berghaus longjohns underneath), a long
sleeve Berghaus ACL, a Montane zip-up jacket, a woolly hat, thin
gloves and a scrim scarf. Do I need anything else?

I normally plan on (i) base layer, plus (ii) mid layer, plus (iii)
waterproof layer, and I think it's probably not wise to leave any of
those layers out (setting Paramo and Buffalo types of kit on one side,
as they're not relevant to this discussion).

Is the Montane a waterproof? If so, maybe you could take some sort of
mid layer, like a fleece or something similar? I bought a Montane
Krypton smock in the sale from www.winwood.co.uk a couple of months
ago for about half price (£45). It has a hood, and it's all I need
with a baselayer when moving, unless it's raining quite hard. It may
be that a wooly jumper would work, but I can't say as I've not used
one: I've been using fleeces I bought more than a decade ago.

If the Montane isn't waterproof then I think you'll need a waterproof
top of some description.

Gloves: thin gloves aren't enough for me in very cold/wet weather, as
my hands get very cold. You'll already know whether they're likely to
keep you warm in cold/wet weather: if they are, Bob's your uncle.

Quoted message said:

I have two pairs
of waterproof trousers. My usual pair are very thin and I would worry
about tearing them on crampons or axes. My other pair are thicker
and, supposedly, Moisture Vapour Permeable (but anything like that
makes me "glow"😉. I also have some padded/thermal ski trousers which
are a size too big but which I bought from Aldi with the intention of
using them for skiing if I ever go again. I borrowed a similar pair
for skiing in France and they were fine for that purpose.

Again, I'd suggest just going with what normally works for you. Ron
Hills alone don't keep me warm in very cold weather, but it sounds as
though they do keep you warm, and you said earlier that you wear them
with longjohns, so I can't see a problem.

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>, Colin MacDonald
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Judith said:

This is mainly aimed at those of us who are heading to the frozen
North in February, but join in if you have an opinion!
Climbmts have sent me the following equipment list:
----------------------------------

(snipped)

I'd add gaiters to this. Good for stopping snow getting in the top of
your boots.

Quoted message said:

I was planning to wear my mountain cap. I don't actually have a
fleece hat (although Aldi have them this week) - do you reckon a
woolly hat'll do? I mean, there's nothing special about fleece hats
is there?

(I guess I'm not telling you anything you don't already know) Fleece
hats will dry out quickly because they don't hold much moisture, and if
they don't get wet then they don't freeze. Wool can hold more moisture
and so is less effective when wet.

Wool does take longer to dry than fleece but it's also warmer when wet.
A wool hat should be fine. I wear one regularly in the winter in the
Cairngorms.

Not all fleece dries quickly by the way. Windproof fleece takes ages to
dry - far longer than wool.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've been going through periods of extreme self-doubt, worrying about
this course! I like cold weather, and I'm a sensible sort of person,
but I keep thinking that I've got no "proper" clothes or equipment and
I'll have to go and spend hundreds of pounds on new kit before the
course. (Bummer, hey PW!)

Does anyone have any advice about clothing I *must* have, or do you
reckon I'll get by with what I've got? It's only a weekend!
In North Wales, on Monday, it was bitter and I was snug in my Ron
Hills (the thick ones .... with Berghaus longjohns underneath), a long
sleeve Berghaus ACL, a Montane zip-up jacket, a woolly hat, thin
gloves and a scrim scarf. Do I need anything else? I have two pairs
of waterproof trousers. My usual pair are very thin and I would worry
about tearing them on crampons or axes. My other pair are thicker
and, supposedly, Moisture Vapour Permeable (but anything like that
makes me "glow"😉. I also have some padded/thermal ski trousers which
are a size too big but which I bought from Aldi with the intention of
using them for skiing if I ever go again. I borrowed a similar pair
for skiing in France and they were fine for that purpose.

I live in the Cairngorms so I'm out in Scottish winter weather regularly
and this set of clothing sounds fine. Is the Montane jacket just a shell
or has it a warm lining of some sort? The ski trousers could be worth
taking just in case it gets really cold with temperatures below -5.

A warm layer that is carried only for wearing at rest stops and in case
of emergency is essential. This can be a thick woolly pully, a thick
fleece or an insulated jacket. On courses stops tend to be much longer
than when you're out on your own so you really do need something very
warm to put on when you're stationary.

Quoted message said:

When I did my winter skills there was lots of self-arrest practice,
involving throwing yourself down icy slopes. (Except there wasn't any
ice, so it was just whatever snow we could find.) This doesn't do a
lot for the outer kit, so consider taking and old crappy jacket for use
on the self-arrest stuff and your normal kit for the rest of the time.

This is a very good point. Sliding down snow in Gore-Tex or other
waterproof/breathable garments (except Paramo) can damage the waterproof
membrane or coating. Fleece or windproof shells are fine for self-arrest
practice if you haven't any old waterproof gear.

Quoted message said:

As for 'proper' clothes and kit, the main difference with my winter
stuff and my summer stuff is that I wear a fleece _and_ a jacket and I
use my stronger cramponable boots. If your boots will take a crampon
then you'll likely be OK.

I'd suggest that you take more than one of just about everything if
possible, because some of your kit _will_ get wet (esp. gloves), and
you don't want to have to wear it again, still damp, the next day if
you can avoid it.

You don't want to wear cold wet gloves the same day either. In winter I
carry three pairs of gloves - one thin, one thick, one monster thick -
so I can adapt to conditions and change pairs when wet. When you take
gloves off it's worth stuffing them inside your clothes, which keeps
them warm and helps them dry out. I also carry three warm hats - a Buff,
a fleece lined windproof cap and a fleece or wool hat - unless one of my
tops has a warm hood.

Colin MacDonald said:

Quoted message said:

Climbmts have sent me the following equipment list:
----------------------------------

(snipped)

I'd add gaiters to this. Good for stopping snow getting in the top of
your boots.

If only I could find my gaiters! I'm beginning to think I must have
left them somewhere - like a Youth Hostel drying room. Perhaps I'll
treat myself to some new ones.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was planning to wear my mountain cap. I don't actually have a
fleece hat (although Aldi have them this week) - do you reckon a
woolly hat'll do? I mean, there's nothing special about fleece hats
is there?

(I guess I'm not telling you anything you don't already know) Fleece
hats will dry out quickly because they don't hold much moisture, and if
they don't get wet then they don't freeze. Wool can hold more moisture
and so is less effective when wet.

That's a good point. I found, when I went skiing, that the
fleece-lined wool hat I bought specially was MUCH too hot, so I wore
my fleece headband all the time and it did the job well. It stopped
me getting earache, which is a particular problem of mine, but didn't
make me hot.

Quoted message said:

When I did my winter skills there was lots of self-arrest practice,
involving throwing yourself down icy slopes. (Except there wasn't any
ice, so it was just whatever snow we could find.) This doesn't do a lot
for the outer kit, so consider taking and old crappy jacket for use on
the self-arrest stuff and your normal kit for the rest of the time.

<Thinks.....> I think I'm still using my old crappy stuff!

Quoted message said:

As for 'proper' clothes and kit, the main difference with my winter
stuff and my summer stuff is that I wear a fleece _and_ a jacket and I
use my stronger cramponable boots. If your boots will take a crampon
then you'll likely be OK.

I'd suggest that you take more than one of just about everything if
possible, because some of your kit _will_ get wet (esp. gloves), and you
don't want to have to wear it again, still damp, the next day if you can
avoid it.

Thanks Colin.

Judith

Quoted message said:

Colin

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:56:33 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is the Montane a waterproof?

It's a Pertex and Pile jacket, so it is showerproof but you need to be
working hard to generate enough heat to dry it out if it rains, so I
put a waterproof over the top if the rain is persistant. My
waterproof is a Lowe Alpine Triple Point Ceramic which is very thin
and lightweight. I don't like heavy clothes.

Quoted message said:

If the Montane isn't waterproof then I think you'll need a waterproof
top of some description.

Gloves: thin gloves aren't enough for me in very cold/wet weather, as
my hands get very cold. You'll already know whether they're likely to
keep you warm in cold/wet weather: if they are, Bob's your uncle.

I now have plenty of gloves - I bought two pairs of "Technical Ski
Gloves" from Aldi this morning. (By the way, if you have an email
from me, in your p@wcu account, you can ignore it. I found Aldi!)
For a fiver a pair they are very good. They are not as good as my
existing ski gloves but I seem to remember they cost a lot more. I
may go back and see if they have any fleece gloves left - I was in a
bit of a rush so just grabbed what I'd gone in for.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have two pairs
of waterproof trousers. <snip>.

Again, I'd suggest just going with what normally works for you. Ron
Hills alone don't keep me warm in very cold weather, but it sounds as
though they do keep you warm, and you said earlier that you wear them
with longjohns, so I can't see a problem.

With the ACL longjohns they were really comfy. I used to walk in
polyester/cotton trousers because that's all I knew, and I thought I
needed pockets, but now I use Ron Hills all year round and put my
lightweight waterproof trousers on if the wind/rain gets bad.

I think that is what I would be most comfortable in. I don't want to
be not enjoying myself because my clothes are uncomfortable. I think
it's probably best to stick with what I know.

Judith

In article <[email hidden]>, Judith
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

This is mainly aimed at those of us who are heading to the frozen
North in February, but join in if you have an opinion!

Climbmts have sent me the following equipment list:
----------------------------------
40L rucksack
Map
Compass
Flask or Water Bottle
Head Torch & Spare Battery
Personal First Aid Kit
Trekking Poles (optional)
Spare Fleece Hat
Spare Gloves
Spare Mid Layer
Spare Food
Hillwalking Boots 4 season
10 or 12 point crampons
Ice Axe
(Technical Kit such as helmet will be provided)

GPS and spare Batteries :-)

Camera.

Have a damn good time.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

Chris Townsend said:

Is the Montane jacket just a shell
or has it a warm lining of some sort?

It's Pile lined. I'm not sure what the moderm equivalent is - all of
the Montane range seem to have names nowadays - but this jacket is
getting on a bit and I love it. The pullers have fallen of the zip
and it has a few scrapes but it's probably the best bit of kit I own
(even including the Akto).

I always carry a Polartec pullover in my pack and usually put my
waterproofs on for a bit of wind protection at lunch. I find rolling
my hat up/down makes a huge difference depending on how hard I am
working and what the weather is like.

Thanks for your replies Chris. I think I probably do have everything
I need.

Judith

Judith said:

I was planning to wear my mountain cap. I don't actually have a
fleece hat (although Aldi have them this week) - do you reckon a
woolly hat'll do? I mean, there's nothing special about fleece hats
is there?

A Buldir hat (that's what they're called on the Lowe website) is pretty
cool for total ear and neck protection. The peak at the front can be
used to keep sun or hail out of your eyes.
http://www.lowealpine.com/Products/Detail.asp?ProductTypeID=9&ProductGro
upID=428&Position=4&SpecificActivityID=

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any advice about clothing I *must* have, or do you
reckon I'll get by with what I've got? It's only a weekend!

Mitts. I rarely have a problem with cold hand but it can happen
occasionally. There was once on a windswept summit when my hands froze,
even with two pairs of gloves on, I just couldn't keep them warm for
some reason. Nice thick mitts, no problem.

Also gaiters or waterproof trousers if walking in deep snow, to stop
your trousers getting soaked as mine did recently.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>, Judith
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Chris Townsend said:

Is the Montane jacket just a shell
or has it a warm lining of some sort?

It's Pile lined. I'm not sure what the moderm equivalent is - all of
the Montane range seem to have names nowadays - but this jacket is
getting on a bit and I love it. The pullers have fallen of the zip
and it has a few scrapes but it's probably the best bit of kit I own
(even including the Akto).

Even the Akto! Wow :-).

It sounds ideal for most Scottish winter weather. Unless there's heavy
rain you probably won't need your waterproof.

Quoted message said:

I always carry a Polartec pullover in my pack and usually put my
waterproofs on for a bit of wind protection at lunch. I find rolling
my hat up/down makes a huge difference depending on how hard I am
working and what the weather is like.

That's a good tip. Hats are more important than many people think.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for your replies Chris. I think I probably do have everything
I need.

It sounds like it. I hope you get some good winter weather that's more
stable than the current seesaw stuff.

"Judith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is mainly aimed at those of us who are heading to the frozen
North in February, but join in if you have an opinion!

Climbmts have sent me the following equipment list:
----------------------------------
40L rucksack

can you carry it, winter days are short and conditions hard, you need to
move fast!, a 40L sack could be heavy !

Quoted message said:

Map
Compass

yes

Quoted message said:

Flask or Water Bottle

water bottle could freeze up, so unless you intend drinking it on the walk
in, don't bother!

Quoted message said:

Head Torch & Spare Battery

Providing your main battery is good you don't need a spare, batteries are
heavy.....

Quoted message said:

Personal First Aid Kit

It depends whats in it, most personal first aid kits are full of stuff you
will never need! don't carry unnesisary stuff, it's heavy and willl slow you
down! Will others in your same party be carrying the exact same stuff, don't
duplicate!

Quoted message said:

Trekking Poles (optional)
Spare Fleece Hat
Spare Gloves

Will spare gloves be enough, most people I take on winter skills exercises
suffer from cold hands, learn how to keep your hands warm!

Quoted message said:

Spare Mid Layer

modern high wickable materials may make a spare mid layer redundant, never
allow yourself to get soaked in sweat on long winter days!

Quoted message said:

Spare Food

No, too heavy, better still learn how to go without food, stay light and
move fast!

Quoted message said:

Hillwalking Boots 4 season
10 or 12 point crampons
Ice Axe

too many issues, depends on what you are doing and the size of your feet.
Main thing, boots that are comfortable and warm!

How about something to sit on, piece of bubble wrap the size of your [censored]
will do. tie it on a piece of string to your sack or it will blow away when
you stand up!

winter 112 / 284
Spring 210 / 284
Summer 180 / 284
Autumn 72 / 284

this year
22 winter
22 spring
14 summer
8 Autumn

stuart

Curious, where are you going in feb, glenmore lodge? I may be about!

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Judith
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

This is mainly aimed at those of us who are heading to the frozen
North in February, but join in if you have an opinion!

Climbmts have sent me the following equipment list:
----------------------------------
40L rucksack
Map
Compass
Flask or Water Bottle
Head Torch & Spare Battery
Personal First Aid Kit
Trekking Poles (optional)
Spare Fleece Hat
Spare Gloves
Spare Mid Layer
Spare Food
Hillwalking Boots 4 season
10 or 12 point crampons
Ice Axe
(Technical Kit such as helmet will be provided)

GPS and spare Batteries :-)

Camera.

Good point! Why are MP3 player and book not on that list?

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:56:33 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In North Wales, on Monday, it was bitter and I was snug in my Ron
Hills (the thick ones .... with Berghaus longjohns underneath), a long
sleeve Berghaus ACL, a Montane zip-up jacket, a woolly hat, thin
gloves and a scrim scarf. Do I need anything else?

I normally plan on (i) base layer, plus (ii) mid layer, plus (iii)
waterproof layer, and I think it's probably not wise to leave any of
those layers out (setting Paramo and Buffalo types of kit on one side,
as they're not relevant to this discussion).

In fact, it sounds from one of your other postings as though your
Montane is actually one of the Buffalo style things I mentioned in
passing above i.e. a Pertex or similar outer with a thick pile inner.
Is it a bit like this Montane Extreme Smock?

http://montane.co.uk/products_highlite_extreme_smock.htm

If so, I'll be v. interested to ask you all about it when we get
there, as I've often looked long and hard at that sort of thing in the
walking shop, but have never bought it.

Interesting!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 00:58:22 -0000, "Stuart" <[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Spare Gloves

Will spare gloves be enough, most people I take on winter skills exercises
suffer from cold hands, learn how to keep your hands warm!

How, then? My hands get very cold, very fast, so I carry (i) thin
fleece gloves (ii) thicker windproof gloves to go on top, if needed,
and (iii) w/proof mits to go on top of all of it, if necessary. Is
there another way?

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Stuart said:

water bottle could freeze up, so unless you intend drinking it on the walk
in, don't bother!

Unlikely. XC skiing in Norway at about -10C a couple of weeks ago the
neck of a half litre pop bottle stowed on the outside of my pack
/partially/ froze. If you put juice in rather than plain water and stow
it in inside the chances of a bottle freezing up in Scotland are very
low. I can't recall ever having a water bottle freeze up in Scotland to
the point I couldn't get a drink, and I've lived, walked, skied and
climbed here since 1988 (Platypus or similar is a different matter! it's
quite easy to get the frozen in the tube or in the valve, though the
tube insulators help).

Quoted message said:

Providing your main battery is good you don't need a spare, batteries are
heavy.....

That's a pretty big if, and assumes the light won't accidentally get
switched on. You can removed this possibility by taking the battery out
to some degree, but then it's a PITA to get some light in a hurry when
you need it. The first thing you often need light for is reconnecting
the battery... Also the case that batteries lose a lot of ooomph in
serious cold, so unless you can keep the working battery against your
body (c.f. the Arctic adapter from Petzl) your "good" battery may wind
down much quicker than you're expecting.

Quoted message said:

It depends whats in it, most personal first aid kits are full of stuff you
will never need! don't carry unnesisary stuff, it's heavy and willl slow you
down!

Mine is fairly large, but still not that heavy and there's no particular
reason they'll be in a hurry in any case, so why the worry? OTOH, they
will be placing far more emphasis than usual on things with dangerous
sharp spikes and hurling themselves down slopes to simulate emergencies,
always a good time for minor accidents.

Quoted message said:

modern high wickable materials may make a spare mid layer redundant, never
allow yourself to get soaked in sweat on long winter days!

If you're spending an hour or two sliding around in wet snow at every
conceivable angle, it is entirely likely you *will* get soaked, though
not necessarily with sweat.

Quoted message said:

No, too heavy, better still learn how to go without food, stay light and
move fast!

Sorry, but as advice goes this is Complete Bollocks(tm). There's no
reason for a winter skills course to eat up mucho miles because you only
need to go as far as the first patch of usable snow with a safe runout.
You will be spending a lot of time standing around observing and
listening which you wouldn't do on a normal day out, and the instructor
will have lunch, so unless you want to sit about and watch everyone else
having dinner then take some.
Beyond that there is the matter of different personal physiologies. *I*
can eat a big breakfast and go all day on nothing, but it isn't a case
of "learning" how to do it, or Roos would have done that years ago.
But, despite being at /least/ as fit and strong and fast as me in most
respects she'll turn into a useless blob if she doesn't get some fresh
carbs on board after a maximum of about 3 hours. She needs regular
feeding, and accordingly takes food to do it. It doesn't need to be heavy.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:28:52 +0000, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Sorry, but as advice goes this is Complete Bollocks(tm).

It seemed such OB to me that I assumed that Stuart was trolling.

Eh, Stuart? :-)

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

Judith said:

I was planning to wear my mountain cap. I don't actually have a
fleece hat (although Aldi have them this week) - do you reckon a
woolly hat'll do? I mean, there's nothing special about fleece hats
is there?

Dunno about yours, but my mountain cap has a fleece liner, so it /is/ a
fleece hat. Ideal for the job, especially with a Buff or light
balaclava to cover your neck if it's windy and cold (especially nice in
windblown snow).
I usually have a Buff on as a scarf in winter, and can pull it up for
different duty if the weather gets nastier.

Quoted message said:

I've been going through periods of extreme self-doubt, worrying about
this course! I like cold weather, and I'm a sensible sort of person,
but I keep thinking that I've got no "proper" clothes or equipment and
I'll have to go and spend hundreds of pounds on new kit before the
course. (Bummer, hey PW!)

Being in a university club for many years I've seen a lot of people do
winter skills days in very cheap and basic kit. We've never had worse
than the odd person getting a bit chilly. Differences between my winter
dressing and other times are not actually that great, and you come
across as well equipped at a general level, so Don't Panic!

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any advice about clothing I *must* have, or do you
reckon I'll get by with what I've got? It's only a weekend!

Well, quite.

Quoted message said:

In North Wales, on Monday, it was bitter and I was snug

And it's already winter. Being above the snowline doesn't suddenly make
the higher bits of Scotland into an Arctic Wasteland. It may well be
above freezing (and I mean high up).

The advice on gaiters is Good Advice: they make a huge difference in
snow. Cheap ones are fine, but you do get more by paying more. Front
seals are much easier to do up than rear seals, and if you have a velcro
closure with no zip it's easy to get at your bootlaces with much less
faff. Overgaiters like Yetis are far more expensive but keep feet
warmer and drier and also add to the life of your boots.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:42:27 +0000, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

The advice on gaiters is Good Advice: they make a huge difference in
snow.

I've been meaning to ask about gaitors for a while.

Quoted message said:

Cheap ones are fine, but you do get more by paying more. Front
seals are much easier to do up than rear seals, and if you have a velcro
closure with no zip it's easy to get at your bootlaces with much less
faff.

During the summer I almost bought a pair like that i.e. front
fastening, but when I took them to pay the bloke in the shop rolled
his eyes, told me my legs wouldn't benefit from Goretex, said the
front fastening ones "feel odd when worn" and swapped them for a less
expensive pair of back fastening ones.

Quoted message said:

Overgaiters like Yetis are far more expensive but keep feet
warmer and drier and also add to the life of your boots.

Can you explain what they do, please? I've seen them from a distance,
but I've never really understood them. It sounds as though perhaps
they're aimed at keeping boots dry?

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Judith
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is the Montane jacket just a shell
or has it a warm lining of some sort?

It's Pile lined. I'm not sure what the moderm equivalent is - all of
the Montane range seem to have names nowadays - but this jacket is
getting on a bit and I love it. The pullers have fallen of the zip
and it has a few scrapes but it's probably the best bit of kit I own
(even including the Akto).

Possibly the Montane "Exteme" Smock - I've only seen it on Judith
soaking wet :-) (The smock i.e.)
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Peewiglet
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In fact, it sounds from one of your other postings as though your
Montane is actually one of the Buffalo style things I mentioned in
passing above i.e. a Pertex or similar outer with a thick pile inner.
Is it a bit like this Montane Extreme Smock?

I believe the earlier smocks had an optional hood. They now come with
hood attached.

Damn good bit of kit I might add.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk