Wind chill

Quoted message said:

Naw. Just go to

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lsx/vortex/newwindchill.htm

I knew this winter was colder than past ones!

Quoted message said:

Interesting, I'll remember that. Maybe a microwave on defrost would do the
trick 🙂

-T

It should. It worked perfectly (although messy) on Virginias dog, so it should
work on him.

Quoted message said:

Rockland county New York, just a bit colder than NYC, but I've lived in
Maine and upstate NY, and have skied in northern vermont in nasty
conditions.

Did the mobs with torches, tar, and feathers convince you to leave? Did you
notice that no matter where you live, that black cloud hangs over you, no
matter where you go to try to escape it?

Quoted message said:

Yea of course you gotta put stuff on yur face or wear a mask when it's
windy

Also a good idea anytime, when you have your face.

Quoted message said:

cover the skin

Condomes are essential, however I doubt you'll ever get laid. But there's
nothing wrong with being optomistic.

Quoted message said:

speaking out of school.

Flunked your GED test again Lance?

......ya know i'm just messin' around....but Tony...I'm big enough to
admit trail running is appreciably more challenging than this road
stuff I do. I could not imagine doing trails in extreme cold.

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:s5hKd.37$vY.1@trndny05...

Quoted message said:

Yea of course you gotta put stuff on yur face or wear a mask when it's
windy - cover the skin - but if most of you is covered, wind chill is
largely negated.

Sorry Lance but I have to agree with Tony. If you are cold, you do NOT
hve the right clothes on. I have run in -15 with the wind at 20 or more
miles an hour and the only place I could even tell it was cold was my
face which was only partialy covered with a scarf when I should have
used a mask for these extrems. If you are not warmed up after a 1/4 mile
you are dressed poorly.

Once again your technique is to attack first. You not going to get
invited to dinner that way. Ask nice a showe everyone how really sweet
you are. 🙂

-Df

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lHjKd.874$NV2.872@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

Right now I'm shooting for the escarpment and the Vermont 50 miler. If
I've
lost the holiday weight by March, I might do the Hat run.

I'll see you at the HAT(if you go) and VT50. I usually work the finish
line at the Escarpment but my vacation starts that day and she will not
allow me to delay vacation one day.

-Doug

View from 392949 km above 17°18'N 175°20'W moon looking at earth.
jan/28,friday a.m. 2005.
from my window here. i see the moon at 1 fist 10° horizon to west. I
am 100 miles west of port heron great lake state michigan. and south
some. 42°3' north, 83°24' west. about.
the moon is above midway islands and east some. 8:30 a.m. est. or add 5
hours juilan time. evan if it is 9 a.m.

wind chill is about measure at 14 feet high or really 35 feet high.
unless you have a 2004/ 2003 or better web page guild. then it is at 5
feet. or there about.
some of this here: well you know...copyright laws. says put this here
and o.k. I think.
Satellite data provided by The Living Earth® Inc./Earth Imaging
© 1996, All Rights Reserved.
Back to Earth and Moon Viewer   Details   Credits
by John Walker
Lowtuc......Zow tuc.

Quoted message said:

They´re not only overkill, but making your hands the best-protected

part of your body is probably quite counterproductive:
__

hey anders. thanks for the info & tips. i'm going to take your words
into account into my race in almost precisely 24 hours, a 10-miler.
right now in nyc it's 8F and -4F with the WindChill. however it's
supposed to be warmer in 24 hours....anywhere between 15-22F.
unfortunately the winds are supposed to be 15-23 mph as well so i am
anticipating a W/C at race time of about 5F to 10F.

i'm gonna go with a fleece glove. i think i also might get some of
those smartwool socks today and wear my usual flats instead of the
stability shoes i wore last week. tomorrow i'll be quite content to
do 6:50/52 min/mile and finish in the top 20 in my age group. we'll
see.

Quoted message said:

i'm gonna go with a fleece glove. i think i also might get some of

The fleece isn't going to give you any wind protection though. What
you want is something lighter than those damn ski gloves you wore
last time, but with some wind protection.

Psssstt -- Urban Athletics have those Sugoi Wind mitts.

Quoted message said:

those smartwool socks today and wear my usual flats instead of the
stability shoes i wore last week.

Sounds good, should be plenty.

Quoted message said:

tomorrow i'll be quite content to
do 6:50/52 min/mile and finish in the top 20 in my age group. we'll
see.

And when are you going to do an armory meet ? BTW, it looks like they
do allow spikes. The rule is that they have to be pyramid spikes.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Tony said:

Yea of course you gotta put stuff on yur face or wear a mask when it's
windy - cover the skin - but if most of you is covered, wind chill is
largely negated.

Well it helps... but even with goretex you're going to cool down faster
in a wind than without a wind. At least with the gore the wind isn't
going to physically displace all the nice warm air you've got trapped in
the loft of your insulating layers - it will just make it cool more quickly.

Wind chill as an effective temperature is a clunky way of expressing
what is really an area cooling rate - any area, not just skin. Here in
Canada they used to give it as a rate of watts/square meter which as an
engineering geek I liked and understood quite well. Most people didn't
know what the hell that meant, so they changed to effective temperature.
But that's really misleading. Now people will say it's -60 or some
such when they really mean -30 with a howling wind which increases the
cooling rate. The actual effect on you depends on what you're wearing,
how sheltered you are from the wind, etc etc.

You can see Environment Canada's take on the whole thing here:

http://www.msc-smc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/windchill_fact_sheet_aug_10_e.cfm

And for what it's worth, I live in a very cold climate and run
recreationally in temperatures as low as -25C. Maybe I'll get motivated
some time to run when it's colder but for now that's enough.

Neil

Quoted message said:

Once again your technique is to attack first. You not going to get

invited to dinner that way. Ask nice a showe everyone how really sweet
you are. 🙂

-Df
__________

....only following the lead of my fearless leader the good President.
Got him re-elected no? Must work on some level? No? ( I guess that
depends on the % of trailer folks on this ng).
"attack"? you mean "mix it up" DF and you know that.

Quoted message said:

Ask nice a showe everyone how really sweet
you are. 🙂

-Df

Translated: bend over.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

i'm gonna go with a fleece glove.

Girls are much better, but being a runner you'll never know.

Quoted message said:

The fleece isn't going to give you any wind protection though.

No matter how much lube you use, it never feels like the real thing. It does
tickle though...

Neil Gendzwill wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Tony said:

Yea of course you gotta put stuff on yur face or wear a mask when it's
windy - cover the skin - but if most of you is covered, wind chill is
largely negated.

Well it helps... but even with goretex you're going to cool down faster
in a wind than without a wind. At least with the gore the wind isn't
going to physically displace all the nice warm air you've got trapped in
the loft of your insulating layers - it will just make it cool more

quickly.

Yes, true, but I just get so sick of the news and everyone saying the wind
chill instead of or before they say that actual temperature, especially when
the wind is rather light.

Quoted message said:

Wind chill as an effective temperature is a clunky way of expressing
what is really an area cooling rate - any area, not just skin. Here in
Canada they used to give it as a rate of watts/square meter which as an
engineering geek I liked and understood quite well. Most people didn't
know what the hell that meant, so they changed to effective temperature.
But that's really misleading. Now people will say it's -60 or some
such when they really mean -30 with a howling wind which increases the
cooling rate. The actual effect on you depends on what you're wearing,
how sheltered you are from the wind, etc etc.

Exactly, it's people using WC instead that bugs me. Of course it's effect is
from 100% (exposed skin) to as low as 10%(?) with a good shell on, with
exposed area's suffering the most.

Quoted message said:

You can see Environment Canada's take on the whole thing here:

http://www.msc-smc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/windchill_fact_sheet_aug_10

_e.cfm

Quoted message said:

And for what it's worth, I live in a very cold climate and run
recreationally in temperatures as low as -25C. Maybe I'll get motivated
some time to run when it's colder but for now that's enough.

Neil

Interesting link with more information, though its the same formula as the
US NWS new wind-chill, just adjusted for C and Km/hour wind speed. You run
in colder temps than me, so what you say carries some weight.

-Tony

anders said:

Tom Phillips said:

Pretty much the same info. But treatment for frostbite
is in opposition to my medical reference however.
_Immediate_ thawing is recommended for saving as
much tissue as possible, not "SLOWLY re-warmed."

Quoted message said:

This might entail warming supoerficial frostbite
againts warmer skin or immersion in 110F water
if deep frostbite.

Well, thawing *is* a slow (15-30min) method even when done immediately
and shouldn´t be rushed by applying any more heat or hotter water than
that.

The only reason not to use hotter water is water
hotter than 110F can scald skin. The time it takes
is really irrelevant since immediate immersion in
warm water is the fastest thawing method possible
using heat without harming the skin. It may take
as long 30 minutes, but you go by the color of the
skin (i.e., finger, toes return to pink or red color.)
If you don't have warm water, you'd use the next
fastest available method: frozen skin against warm
skin.

Wouldn't recommend Tony's microwave defrost method
unless you're also starving and plan on cooking
before you cannibalize ;^)

Quoted message said:

But it´s true the above advice is badly formulated and can be
misinterpreted.

I think it comes from when it used to be recommended
to wrap frosbit extremities and let the warm to body
temp. But "slowly rewarming" doesn't mean really
anything since it's not defined.

Neil Gendzwill said:

Tony said:

Yea of course you gotta put stuff on yur face or wear a mask when it's
windy - cover the skin - but if most of you is covered, wind chill is
largely negated.

Well it helps... but even with goretex you're going to cool down faster
in a wind than without a wind. At least with the gore the wind isn't
going to physically displace all the nice warm air you've got trapped in
the loft of your insulating layers - it will just make it cool more quickly.

If the wind can't get in to physically affect
the warmed air from layering it also can't
cool that air more quickly. Gore tex is a
pretty effective wind barrier.

Quoted message said:

Wind chill as an effective temperature is a clunky way of expressing
what is really an area cooling rate - any area, not just skin.

My understanding is the new wind chill is calculated
only regarding it's effects on skin, and this is why it
was revised, since the previous method of calculating
wind chill didn't accurately measure the actual wind
chill against human skin (i.e., at face level.) According
to the National Weather Service wind chill has little
effect on other surfaces, such as how cold your car gets
or the temperature of road surfaces (i.e., black ice
formation.) But as you say it affects the cooling rate
though only until the actual air temperature is reached.

..."the only effect that wind chill has on inanimate
objects, such as vehicles, is that it shortens the
time that it takes the object to cool to the actual
air temperature (it cannot cool the object down below
that temperature). Water freezes at 32 degrees
regardless of what the wind chill is."

In other words, since non-skin areas aren't affected
by wind chill exposure (i.e., they won't freeze to
death), wind chill effects calculated using areas
other than human skin aren't of any useful application,
weather wise.

Quoted message said:

Here in
Canada they used to give it as a rate of watts/square meter which as an
engineering geek I liked and understood quite well. Most people didn't
know what the hell that meant, so they changed to effective temperature.
But that's really misleading. Now people will say it's -60 or some
such when they really mean -30 with a howling wind which increases the
cooling rate. The actual effect on you depends on what you're wearing,
how sheltered you are from the wind, etc etc.

You can see Environment Canada's take on the whole thing here:

http://www.msc-smc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/windchill_fact_sheet_aug_10_e.cfm

And for what it's worth, I live in a very cold climate and run
recreationally in temperatures as low as -25C. Maybe I'll get motivated
some time to run when it's colder but for now that's enough.

Neil

Tom Phillips said:

If the wind can't get in to physically affect
the warmed air from layering it also can't
cool that air more quickly. Gore tex is a
pretty effective wind barrier.

Practical experience: Goretex helps a lot, but if there's a wind you
will be colder than without the wind, I don't care what you're wearing.

Speculation mode on why that's so: There will be a temperature gradient
from your skin through the various layers of insulation. The goretex is
part of that system, and the wind is going to keep it at the ambient
outside temperature, whereas without a wind it will heat up some. So
the wind will cause heat to dump out of the system more quickly.

Neil

Tom Phillips said:

In other words, since non-skin areas aren't affected
by wind chill exposure (i.e., they won't freeze to
death), wind chill effects calculated using areas
other than human skin aren't of any useful application,
weather wise.

It'll make the difference between whether your car will or won't start
after a couple of hours in -30. Two hours with no wind, most modern
cars will start no trouble. Two hours in a howling wind - you may be in
trouble.

Neil