Will those work with these?

Mike Elliott said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers, 9-spd
rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra brifters on the
road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars any
more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem, everything
a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars, so I'm
switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

New der. Front road der has a different cable pull increment than mtb.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 22:19:08 GMT, R Brickston

rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ said:

Mike Elliott said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers, 9-spd
rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra brifters on the
road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars any
more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem, everything
a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars, so I'm
switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

New der. Front road der has a different cable pull increment than mtb.

A better clarification would be mtb front shifter has to be paired
with a mtb front der.

On 8/23/2006 3:27 PM R Brickston said:

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 22:19:08 GMT, R Brickston

rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@ said:

Mike Elliott said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers, 9-spd
rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra brifters on the
road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars any
more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem, everything
a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars, so I'm
switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

New der. Front road der has a different cable pull increment than mtb.

A better clarification would be mtb front shifter has to be paired
with a mtb front der.

Thanks, R.

So the brakes and the rear der should work fine with different
shifters/levers. The issue is the front der. My "daily rider" is a flat
bar road bike kinda thing. It has a Shimano "Nexave" front der. My bet
is that would be a mtb style der, then.

Two followup questions:

1. Do all the integrated lever/shifters for flat bars expect mtb front
ders? Or is there an integrated level/shifter set that is happy with a
road front der?

2. Will pretty much any current mtb front der work with an integrated
lever/shifter?

Okay, that's three questions. I cheated.

-- mike elliott

Mike Elliott said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers,
9-spd rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra
brifters on the road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars
any more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem,
everything a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars,
so I'm switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

You need brake levers that pull canti brakes, not v-brakes.
--
Phil Lee, Squid

Squid said:

Mike Elliott said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers,
9-spd rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra
brifters on the road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars
any more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem,
everything a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars,
so I'm switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

You need brake levers that pull canti brakes, not v-brakes.

I'd throw on some Tektra Mini-V's to solve that problem. $20, new, off
of Ebay.

Phil Lee said:

Mike Elliott said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers,
9-spd rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra
brifters on the road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars
any more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem,
everything a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars,
so I'm switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

You need brake levers that pull canti brakes, not v-brakes.

Dang. Why is this so devilishly difficult?

-- mike elliott

Mike Elliott said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers, 9-spd
rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra brifters on the
road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars any
more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem, everything
a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars, so I'm
switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

you'll have problems with the pull ratios on the brakes and front
derailleur. there is however a flat bar lever/shifter solution from
shimano:

http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/group.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302040106&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181419&bmUID=1156385423575

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

Dang. Why is this so devilishly difficult?

-- mike elliott

What? It's not like we're putting a Mopar motor in a Ford...

Jim Beam's pointed out that Shimano makes all the parts you need to
make your bike work. All you need to do is buy the right parts and put
them together.

Heck, if I can get ancient XTR shifters, a FD-R443 front derailleur,
and a Deore XT rear derailleur to live in harmony on my recumbent, your
bike should be a piece of cake.

Jeff

Mike Elliott says...

Quoted message said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers, 9-spd
rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra brifters on the
road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars any
more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem, everything
a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars, so I'm
switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

I would say the integrated shifters are out since the brake pull won't
be correct. One thing you should be aware of is that the top tube will
be very short compared to a MTB if that is what you are used to in a
flat bar bike. Expect a very upright position and a lot of weight on
the seat. You may want to consider getting a much longer stem than you
normally would to help compensate for that. You will also have a steep
head tube angle with quick steering. Of course, toe/wheel overlap won't
change if that is an issue now. You could test ride a Trek Pilot or
Specialized Sirrus to get a feel for what you will end up with, since
they have road bike geometry with flat bars.

IMO, MTB geometry makes a lot more sense for a flat bar bike: longer
top tube, longer wheelbase, much more relaxed angles. Try a Cannondale
Bad Boy if you want to check out a MTB with 700c wheels and slick tires.
Have you thought about selling your road bike and getting something like
this, or just fitting a MTB with slick tires? I've done this for years
now and it makes for a perfect general purpose bike. The penalty in
speed over a good drop bar road bike is a lot less than most people
believe. A roadgoing MTB might even be slightly faster than what you
are contemplating since you would have a lower position.

JeffWills said:

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

Dang. Why is this so devilishly difficult?

-- mike elliott

What? It's not like we're putting a Mopar motor in a Ford...

Jim Beam's pointed out that Shimano makes all the parts you need to
make your bike work. All you need to do is buy the right parts and put
them together.

Jim's helpful response became available on my news server after I wrote
that whine.

-- mike elliott

Barnard Frederick said:

Mike Elliott says...

Quoted message said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers, 9-spd
rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra brifters on the
road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars any
more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem, everything
a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars, so I'm
switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

I would say the integrated shifters are out since the brake pull won't
be correct. One thing you should be aware of is that the top tube will
be very short compared to a MTB if that is what you are used to in a
flat bar bike.

Thanks for the warning on that. I don't think I'll be all that
uncomfortable because my daily rider's geometry is very, very close to
my road bike, and it has flat bars. I am more comfortable on it than I
am on the road bike. I've never, ever, been comfortable with the longer
reach of road bars, and mtbs' longer top tube is also something I have
needed to compensate for with shorter stems, etc. My latest mtb is
probably a smaller frame size than most would choose, but with the seat
raised up, the reach is pretty okay.

It's a body thing and I know from all these decades of trying and riding
bikes that I am on the far skirt of the bell curve in terms of riding
position preferences.

When given the choice between my road bike, even with its road bars
raised and brought in, and my daily rider with its similarly-shaped
frame and closer flat bars, I pick the daily rider. But I sure like my
road bike's lightness, and how darn pretty it is, and I regret that I
seldom ride it anymore due to the reach thing, so I'm just going to
modify it to suit. Any bike that is more pleasurable to ride is miles
better than one that is rarely ridden because its uncomfortable, in my
book. IMHO, and all that.

-- mike elliott

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

Thanks for the warning on that. I don't think I'll be all that
uncomfortable because my daily rider's geometry is very, very close to
my road bike, and it has flat bars. I am more comfortable on it than I
am on the road bike. I've never, ever, been comfortable with the longer
reach of road bars, and mtbs' longer top tube is also something I have
needed to compensate for with shorter stems, etc.

My errand bike is kind of similar. It's an old 23" Raleigh with a 120mm
stem and flat bars. I "normally" fit a 62cm drop-bar road bike. I find
the more upright position to suit me for jaunts to the coffee shop. It
also makes it easier to ride while holding the coffee cup.

Jeff

On 8/23/2006 7:11 PM jim beam said:

Mike Elliott said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers,
9-spd rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra brifters
on the road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars
any more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem,
everything a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars,
so I'm switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

you'll have problems with the pull ratios on the brakes and front
derailleur. there is however a flat bar lever/shifter solution from
shimano:

http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/group.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302040106&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181419&bmUID=1156385423575

Calling all Shimano comp experts: The above links to a page where
Shimano lists two (2) shift levers, two (2) brake levers, and two (2)
front ders. If there is a clear distinction between the two levers, two
shifters, and two ders, it's too subtle for me to pick up from their
online information. So I'm not certain which of each part I need to
start hunting for. Or maybe it doesn't matter -- they all work with each
other.

Can someone who knows about these things (or has a handy Shimano rep
nearby to ask) advise what works with what? Or at least what the
differences are? My local LBS's are fair to middlin' when it comes to
tech. And there are guys on this list who are willing to argue spoke
failure modes 'till the sun goes down. If I'm gonna special order some
comps, I want some confidence that they are comps that should do what I
need doing.

-- mike elliott

Mike Elliott said:

On 8/23/2006 7:11 PM jim beam said:

Mike Elliott said:

I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...

My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers,
9-spd rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra brifters
on the road bars.

I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars
any more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem,
everything a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars,
so I'm switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.

I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.

Will those work with these?

-- mike elliott

you'll have problems with the pull ratios on the brakes and front
derailleur. there is however a flat bar lever/shifter solution from
shimano:

http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/group.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302040106&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181419&bmUID=1156385423575

Calling all Shimano comp experts: The above links to a page where
Shimano lists two (2) shift levers, two (2) brake levers, and two (2)
front ders. If there is a clear distinction between the two levers, two
shifters, and two ders, it's too subtle for me to pick up from their
online information. So I'm not certain which of each part I need to
start hunting for. Or maybe it doesn't matter -- they all work with each
other.

Can someone who knows about these things (or has a handy Shimano rep
nearby to ask) advise what works with what? Or at least what the
differences are? My local LBS's are fair to middlin' when it comes to
tech. And there are guys on this list who are willing to argue spoke
failure modes 'till the sun goes down. If I'm gonna special order some
comps, I want some confidence that they are comps that should do what I
need doing.

-- mike elliott

Clicking your link, I see 3 rows of 3 items each, the 3 items are
brake levers, shifters and front derailleur. Each set of those three
items is for a either 8, 9 or 10 speed rear cog.

Since you already have a road front derailleur and the rear doesn't
matter, it looks like you just need a left and right brake lever and a
left (front) and right (rear) shifter in the middle row for the 9
speed.

On 8/24/2006 1:32 PM R Brickston said:

Mike Elliott said:

On 8/23/2006 7:11 PM jim beam said:

Mike Elliott wrote:
> I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...
>
> My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers,
> 9-spd rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra brifters
> on the road bars.
>
> I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars
> any more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem,
> everything a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars,
> so I'm switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.
>
> I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
> integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
> daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.
>
> Will those work with these?
>
> -- mike elliott
you'll have problems with the pull ratios on the brakes and front
derailleur. there is however a flat bar lever/shifter solution from
shimano:

http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/group.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302040106&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181419&bmUID=1156385423575

Calling all Shimano comp experts: The above links to a page where
Shimano lists two (2) shift levers, two (2) brake levers, and two (2)
front ders. If there is a clear distinction between the two levers, two
shifters, and two ders, it's too subtle for me to pick up from their
online information. So I'm not certain which of each part I need to
start hunting for. Or maybe it doesn't matter -- they all work with each
other.

Can someone who knows about these things (or has a handy Shimano rep
nearby to ask) advise what works with what? Or at least what the
differences are? My local LBS's are fair to middlin' when it comes to
tech. And there are guys on this list who are willing to argue spoke
failure modes 'till the sun goes down. If I'm gonna special order some
comps, I want some confidence that they are comps that should do what I
need doing.

-- mike elliott

Clicking your link, I see 3 rows of 3 items each, the 3 items are
brake levers, shifters and front derailleur. Each set of those three
items is for a either 8, 9 or 10 speed rear cog.

Since you already have a road front derailleur and the rear doesn't
matter, it looks like you just need a left and right brake lever and a
left (front) and right (rear) shifter in the middle row for the 9
speed.

Thanks, R. The two lever options and two shifter options listed for
9-spd are not right and left. The brake levers appear to be easy, but
the shifters seem a little less obvious.

Brake levers: Two part numbers: BL-R440-S and BL-R440-L. The "S" part
number is a clear silver anode lever, while the "L" p/n shows a black
lever. "S" means silver and "L" means black? Could be, just pick a color.

Shifters: For the two 9-spd shifters, SL-R440-9 comes in two colors
(again, "S" = silver and "L" = black so that agrees with the brake lever
page), and is described as "9-Speed Shift Lever." The second shifter,
SL-R660, comes in one color only, silver, and is described as "9-Speed
Ultegra level shift lever set for use with flat handlebar road bikes."

Hmm.. there's the magic word, "Ultegra." I guess that the SL-R660 is the
one that they recommend using with a road bike front der.

-- mike "I'm not trying to be dense here, though I might be achieving
neutron star density nonetheless" elliott

Mike Elliott said:

Shifters: For the two 9-spd shifters, SL-R440-9 comes in two colors
(again, "S" = silver and "L" = black so that agrees with the brake lever
page), and is described as "9-Speed Shift Lever." The second shifter,
SL-R660, comes in one color only, silver, and is described as "9-Speed
Ultegra level shift lever set for use with flat handlebar road bikes."

Hmm.. there's the magic word, "Ultegra." I guess that the SL-R660 is the
one that they recommend using with a road bike front der.

Yep, sort of. "6" part numbers are Ultegra-ish parts, "4" is
Tiagra-level. If there was a "5" part number in there, I'd expect it to
be 105-level. Either set of shift levers will work fine with your
Ultegra rear derailleur.

The Shimano "flat-bar" brake levers are designed for standard caliper
brakes, not V-brakes. Sheldon sells a couple compatible sets by other
manufacturers: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/brake-levers-up.html

Quoted message said:

-- mike "I'm not trying to be dense here, though I might be achieving
neutron star density nonetheless" elliott

Have I got a book for you!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034543529X/102-0335489-7469711

Jeff

Mike Elliott said:

On 8/24/2006 1:32 PM R Brickston said:

Mike Elliott said:

On 8/23/2006 7:11 PM jim beam wrote:

> Mike Elliott wrote:
>> I reckon that's about the most generic header I can think of...
>>
>> My 9-spd road bike has Ultegra components: 6600 sidepull calipers,
>> 9-spd rear der, and a double on the front der. It has Ultegra brifters
>> on the road bars.
>>
>> I like that little bike but I can't get comfortable on the road bars
>> any more, even with the steerer extended, raised, a shorter stem,
>> everything a fellow can do. I'm plain more comfortable on flat bars,
>> so I'm switchin' over and ain't no one gonna talk me out of it.
>>
>> I want to keep things simple, no bar end shifters or anything. I like
>> integrated levers/shifter solutions, like what I have on my flat-bar
>> daily rider. Something like the Deore ST-M530, or similar.
>>
>> Will those work with these?
>>
>> -- mike elliott
> you'll have problems with the pull ratios on the brakes and front
> derailleur. there is however a flat bar lever/shifter solution from
> shimano:
>
> http://bike.shimano.com/catalog/cycle/products/group.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302040106&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181419&bmUID=1156385423575
>
Calling all Shimano comp experts: The above links to a page where
Shimano lists two (2) shift levers, two (2) brake levers, and two (2)
front ders. If there is a clear distinction between the two levers, two
shifters, and two ders, it's too subtle for me to pick up from their
online information. So I'm not certain which of each part I need to
start hunting for. Or maybe it doesn't matter -- they all work with each
other.

Can someone who knows about these things (or has a handy Shimano rep
nearby to ask) advise what works with what? Or at least what the
differences are? My local LBS's are fair to middlin' when it comes to
tech. And there are guys on this list who are willing to argue spoke
failure modes 'till the sun goes down. If I'm gonna special order some
comps, I want some confidence that they are comps that should do what I
need doing.

-- mike elliott

Clicking your link, I see 3 rows of 3 items each, the 3 items are
brake levers, shifters and front derailleur. Each set of those three
items is for a either 8, 9 or 10 speed rear cog.

Since you already have a road front derailleur and the rear doesn't
matter, it looks like you just need a left and right brake lever and a
left (front) and right (rear) shifter in the middle row for the 9
speed.

Thanks, R. The two lever options and two shifter options listed for
9-spd are not right and left.

The brake levers appear to be easy, but
the shifters seem a little less obvious.

Brake levers: Two part numbers: BL-R440-S and BL-R440-L. The "S" part
number is a clear silver anode lever, while the "L" p/n shows a black
lever. "S" means silver and "L" means black? Could be, just pick a color.

Shifters: For the two 9-spd shifters, SL-R440-9 comes in two colors
(again, "S" = silver and "L" = black so that agrees with the brake lever
page), and is described as "9-Speed Shift Lever." The second shifter,
SL-R660, comes in one color only, silver, and is described as "9-Speed
Ultegra level shift lever set for use with flat handlebar road bikes."

Hmm.. there's the magic word, "Ultegra." I guess that the SL-R660 is the
one that they recommend using with a road bike front der.

-- mike "I'm not trying to be dense here, though I might be achieving
neutron star density nonetheless" elliott

Shimano lists the shifters in pairs, one left side and one right side.
The brake levers are listed as a single units, but will work on either
left or right. So, you get one set of shifters and two brake levers in
your choice of any color (as long as it's silver or black).

JeffWills said:

Mike Elliott said:

Shifters: For the two 9-spd shifters, SL-R440-9 comes in two colors
(again, "S" = silver and "L" = black so that agrees with the brake lever
page), and is described as "9-Speed Shift Lever." The second shifter,
SL-R660, comes in one color only, silver, and is described as "9-Speed
Ultegra level shift lever set for use with flat handlebar road bikes."

Hmm.. there's the magic word, "Ultegra." I guess that the SL-R660 is the
one that they recommend using with a road bike front der.

Yep, sort of. "6" part numbers are Ultegra-ish parts, "4" is
Tiagra-level. If there was a "5" part number in there, I'd expect it to
be 105-level. Either set of shift levers will work fine with your
Ultegra rear derailleur.

Got it. Thanks very much!

-- mike elliott

Quoted message said:

Have I got a book for you!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034543529X/102-0335489-7469711

I wonder if I have already read that book. I pretty much stopped reading
SF in the early 80's.

-- mike elliott