Will Iran get the bomb?

desert_RAT said:

So what is the "international opinion." Will they get the nuclear bomb? Or will the good ol' U S of A "do it again." And when I say do it again of course I mean save the world.🙂🙂

Or do you actually believe them when they say they just want to produce electricity?

Will they get the Bomb? Yes.
Should they have it? No.
Where did the technology to build it originate. One guess.
Was the Shah of Iran a democratic ruler elected by the people,or was he an american puppet? You answer.
Can the world control what a sovereign country like Iran decides to do with their nuclear resources. Not without difficulty.
Can the world control what a sovereign country like the united states decides to do with their nuclear resources.Not without difficulty.
Can the world control what a sovereign country like israel decides to do with their nuclear resources.Not without difficulty.
Can the world control sovereign countries like Pakistan or India who are both armed with nuclear weapons and have a history of armed conflict.No.
Does the united states use its nuclear capability solely for the production of electricity? No.
Why is it wrong for any other country to do exactly what the us does in regard to nuclear weapons?
If it is wrong for Iran to have nuclear weapons...why is it right for the us and other countries to have them?
When did the united states "save the world",and from what?Never,and from nothing.

Europe seems to be united and understands Iran with a nuclear weapon would be a threat as Iran is pretty unstable. But George Bush has essentially provoked the current crisis by radicalising Iranians through the present conduct in Iraq which is why Iranians voted in the extremists (they fear invasion).
Bush has also weakened the U.S. considerably by the conduct of many troops in Iraq and the total lack of regard or respect for human rights added to the lies told about WMD.
Americans will hopefully understand that the use of torture, rendition and ill-founded propaganda considerably weakened the U.S.'s standing around the globe. The problem is what the heck can be done about Iran after so many lies have been told over Iraq and all those photos of POW abuses have been published around the world?
Blair is equally to blame and his dangerous manipulation of the Iraq situation to help U.S. oil companies has put us all in danger or terrorism, rogue regimes and the like. It's a classic case of crying wolf and not being believed a second time round but, yes, I think Iran with a nuclear weapon would cause a huge international crisis - even the Russians could get tough over such a situation.

desert_RAT said:

So what is the "international opinion." Will they get the nuclear bomb? Or will the good ol' U S of A "do it again." And when I say do it again of course I mean save the world.🙂🙂

Or do you actually believe them when they say they just want to produce electricity?

desert_RAT said:

WWII Steven. Remember it.

Do you? I don't think you do.

desert_RAT said:

WWII Steven. Remember it. We invented the A-Bomb and ended the war. Thereby saving the world. Oh, yes and we kicked [censored]'s [censored] as well.

You are obviously not very well read 😄

desert_RAT said:

WWII Steven. Remember it. We invented the A-Bomb and ended the war.

Nazi Germany were in a position to build the bomb in 1943 - two years before your country did.

desert_RAT said:

Oh, yes and we kicked [censored]'s [censored] as well.

You are obviously not very well read

......and neither are you. Well read that is.

The Soviets/ANZACS/British/South Africans/French Resistance/USA beat [censored].

desert_RAT said:

Again. The whole WORLD knew Saddamm had WMD's. There were no lies told. This is second guessing after the fact. If you were honest you would admit this.

As far as torture. Please. Give me a friggin break already. Barking dogs? This is torture? I think Iraq has seen much worse from the previous regime.

Let me ask you. How would you interrogate a terrorist?

OK - time once again to enforce some rules here.

Your own people were convicted of torture :

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/12/iraq/main616921.shtml

As regards WMD in Iraq - there were none :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3596033.stm

Moderator Role :

Now it seems to me that you're regurgitating a discussion that has been exhausted fully here.
I reckon that you're trolling again.

So let me make it clear to you - clean up your act or else.

desert_RAT said:

We invented the A-Bomb and ended the war.

Trying proving it.

desert_RAT said:

😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕😕

Aha, so you admit that you are confused about A-Bombs and WWII.

Nazi Germany would have been defeated without military involvement from the USA. Russian forces would have advanced most of the way to coast of France, most likely.

The A-Bomb did not win the war. Due to the superior production capacity of the USA Japan would have been defeated without its use.

The defining moment of the pacific campaign was the battle of Midway. This, as agreed by hundreds of military analysts, was a 1 in a million chance win for the American forces. Any reasonable estimate would have had the Japanese forces decimate the Americans at this battle hence putting the Japanese in control of the pacific theater in naval terms. Fortunately the American forces where exceptionally lucky and through a series of highly improbable events disabled the main Japanese carrier fleet. Its a damn good thing it happened but theres no way it should have happened that way.

The only necessary US involvment in the western front was that of factory output/ financial aid. The war would have been won without US military involvement, however Europe would look very different today.

Edit: Do not even think to use "we". You had nothing to do with it. "They" would be a much more appropriate word to use. It is the sacrifice of men and women from many countries, not just America, who defeated Nazi Germany, something that you personally had absolutely nothing to do with. Be respectful of these people.

well said, i think we all need to stop riding on the backs of our grandfathers who died for thier country...

Eldrack said:

Edit: Do not even think to use "we". You had nothing to do with it. "They" would be a much more appropriate word to use. It is the sacrifice of men and women from many countries, not just America, who defeated Nazi Germany, something that you personally had absolutely nothing to do with. Be respectful of these people.

desert_RAT said:

Have you not seen a TV? We kicked [censored]'s ass then Japan's.

desert_RAT said:

You are obviously not very well read 😄

who is this [censored] idiot? gets all his info from watching hollywood movies then bleats on about people not reading enough books..

please take that gun you are always fondling and do us all a favour...

MountainPro said:

who is this [censored] idiot? gets all his info from watching hollywood movies then bleats on about people not reading enough books..

please take that gun you are always fondling and do us all a favour...

Just another stereotypical "Ugly American",the kind who gives the others a bad name and is responsible for bringing the us into disrepute.

My experience of people is that anyone who is really good at anything,in any area of life usually has no need to tell others how good they are...others will tell them.Modesty is the mark of true self-confidence.
For all the boasting,I can't help but feel that it conceals a very deep insecurity about their own capabilities.
And they wonder why noone likes them...

desert_RAT said:

Dude. Are you than lame?

Have you not seen a TV? We kicked [censored]'s ass then Japan's.

Gee you are confused, you can't tell the difference between
Russians and Americans !

desert_RAT said:

Torture. If what the Americans did is torture to you then you are very very weak and sad.

Then take your complaint up with the judge who convicted Graner and England - he ajudged them to have committed torture.

desert_RAT said:

As far as WMD's go....give me a break we all know he had them. If you say he did not your are either a liar or a fool. Probably both.

He didn't have WMD - Your secretary of state admitted that Saddam didn't have WMD.

desert_RAT said:

By the way there was a UN report released recently that states Saddamm moved his WMD's to Syria. Like a rational person would have to assume he did. So read up!!

Well how come no one has heard of this "report" that you refer to?

I'm sure the members here would like to view this "report" - that's if it exists.

desert_RAT said:

As far as cleaning up my act. I have done nothing wrong. I have insulted no one. I am stating the truth. So if you wanna me ban go on and do it. Quit threatening to do it and do it. I only ask that you tell me why. I have called no one names etc.... I think you are just unable to take the truth.

What you've posted about WMD and torture is lies.
So save the lectures about the truth - until you start posting soemthing truthful.

Second - these issues have been discussed ad nauseum.
The subject has been debated to a conclusion.

In my opinion, the time has come for Americans to choose whether they wish to be seen as supportive of human rights and opposed to all forms of torture or whether they wish to go down the same road as Chile under Pinochet or Spain under Franco. Myself, I believe the number of Americans who are disgusted over Guantanamo abuses or Iraq are prolific and they simply don't like the way Rumsfeld and co have damaged their country.
However, I should point out it's not only the U.S. I tend to criticize with regard to all of this as some other countries are also heading down a slippery slope.
One more point is, this isn't just a case of Iraqis being abused in prisons since many weeks ago I posted about Americans being subjected to abuse in Arizona - which included strapping people to chairs and drugging them e.t.c. I don't think torture or abuse should ever be condoned, no matter how low the terrorists may have sunk or what crimes they may have committed.
The sad truth is, politicians are having everything their own way. They are claiming they support democracy and human rights but, in reality, they ignore and disregard the peoples of the nations they govern and run countries like tin-pot dictatorships. They don't appear to respect the human rights of citizens within their own countries, let alone overseas. And they kid themselves that daft rules over hot cross buns and piggy banks will somehow convince us they're not racist in any way.
In my view, it would be a good thing if people got themselves a proper democracy and formed their own representation instead of being dictated to by a corrupt elite. Democracy means the sovereign rule of the people not fat cats such as Bush and Blair who couldn't give 2 hoots about the people in Louisiana.

desert_RAT said:

Again. The whole WORLD knew Saddamm had WMD's. There were no lies told. This is second guessing after the fact. If you were honest you would admit this.

As far as torture. Please. Give me a friggin break already. Barking dogs? This is torture? I think Iraq has seen much worse from the previous regime.

Let me ask you. How would you interrogate a terrorist?

Carrera said:

In my opinion, the time has come for Americans to choose whether they wish to be seen as supportive of human rights and opposed to all forms of torture or whether they wish to go down the same road as Chile under Pinochet or Spain under Franco. Myself, I believe the number of Americans who are disgusted over Guantanamo abuses or Iraq are prolific and they simply don't like the way Rumsfeld and co have damaged their country.
However, I should point out it's not only the U.S. I tend to criticize with regard to all of this as some other countries are also heading down a slippery slope.
One more point is, this isn't just a case of Iraqis being abused in prisons since many weeks ago I posted about Americans being subjected to abuse in Arizona - which included strapping people to chairs and drugging them e.t.c. I don't think torture or abuse should ever be condoned, no matter how low the terrorists may have sunk or what crimes they may have committed.
The sad truth is, politicians are having everything their own way. They are claiming they support democracy and human rights but, in reality, they ignore and disregard the peoples of the nations they govern and run countries like tin-pot dictatorships. They don't appear to respect the human rights of citizens within their own countries, let alone overseas. And they kid themselves that daft rules over hot cross buns and piggy banks will somehow convince us they're not racist in any way.
In my view, it would be a good thing if people got themselves a proper democracy and formed their own representation instead of being dictated to by a corrupt elite. Democracy means the sovereign rule of the people not fat cats such as Bush and Blair who couldn't give 2 hoots about the people in Louisiana.

Well said.

desert_RAT said:

Calm down assmunch. I have said before I loathe Hollywood.

You people are nuts. History tells it one way and all of you here are trying to bend it to fit it so it makes your sad pathetic country look better.

Let's face it people. There is only one super power left in the world. It's the United States of America. DEAL WITH IT.

And any of you that any ideas of Bush's ways going when he's gone. Do not count on it. John McCain will be our next president. God willing.😄😄😄

The us a "Super power"?.The us spends more its military ,both in raw dollars and per capita,than any country in the world.http://countrydata.u.nu/stats-military_per_capita.html
Countries of the world: Military expenditure per capita
As emerging economies like china,india and brazil start to spend more of their GDP on their military what will america become? A bi-lingual nation of farmers somewhere between canada and brazil and dependent on china for manufactured goods.
The wheel always turns,and now that the us has reached its peak as a military power the only forward is down and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.The us has never faced a credible threat of invasion...its huge military is not for defence.The us is deeply in debt,a debt which cannot be sustained.
The us a "super power"? Couldn't beat a poor country like vietnam,a country which had virtually no navy or air force and isn't having much luck in iraq,a country less than 1/10 its size.Deal with that.

desert_RAT said:

Let's face it people. There is only one super power left in the world. It's the United States of America. DEAL WITH IT.

We are dealing with it.

Superpower appears to mean that the US spends more on weaponry than all the other countries of the world combined and then whines about other countries spending too much on weapons ... Sounds to me like you guys are running scared despite your concerted effort to find the limit of the Diminishing Returns curve with your "Defense" Budget (which is primarily spent on wars and weaponry that is used in *Offensives*).

If anything it appears to be the US who has trouble dealing with being an Obnoxious Lying Whining [censored] of a nation. When the US quits being an Obnoxious Lying Whining [censored] of a nation perhaps other nations might like the US.

desert_RAT said:

If they liked us we would be weak like you. Misery loves company. Just cuz you all suck..........:eek: DEAL WITH IT.

Don't let us stop you from toking on that crack pipe.

Hmmm, we need to keep a sense of balance here. The apparent fact the U.S. has compromised its values over the last decade is a recent development and, prior to that, the U.S. doesn't compare so badly with other super-powers.
Let's not forget how many people were deported to Gulags in Soviet Russia and also the behaviour of the Japanese Empire when they butchered countless Chinese e.t.c. I personally believe the U.S. could do far more to advance human rights throughout the globe but I don't view the U.S. as being in any way similar to, say, Stalin's Russia.
It seems to me that what happened was the 9/11 attacks caused sufficient shockwaves in the U.S. that American people simply swallowed the information they were given - that Iraq had something to do with it all. But we need to bear in mind, the majority of Americans are now coming to understand they were misinformed. The majority of Americans are now unhappy with the Bush Administration and his approval ratings have fallen considerably.
The question that needs to be considered now is whether the U.S. will retreat and become isolationist to the point it will simply not get involved in any international crisis situation. As I recall, that's exactly what happened at the time of [censored]'s advances into Europe when the U.S. simply didn't want to get involved.
I believe Americans are coming to see they got their fingers burned and are probably beginning to wish they had never gotten involved in Iraq. So, I'm wondering whether the next administration might turn out to be quite isolationist.

stevebaby said:

The us a "Super power"?.The us spends more its military ,both in raw dollars and per capita,than any country in the world.http://countrydata.u.nu/stats-military_per_capita.html
Countries of the world: Military expenditure per capita
As emerging economies like china,india and brazil start to spend more of their GDP on their military what will america become? A bi-lingual nation of farmers somewhere between canada and brazil and dependent on china for manufactured goods.
The wheel always turns,and now that the us has reached its peak as a military power the only forward is down and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.The us has never faced a credible threat of invasion...its huge military is not for defence.The us is deeply in debt,a debt which cannot be sustained.
The us a "super power"? Couldn't beat a poor country like vietnam,a country which had virtually no navy or air force and isn't having much luck in iraq,a country less than 1/10 its size.Deal with that.

Another point is, it's not just the U.S. that seems to be compromising human rights. I'm getting ever more uneasy about the situation in this country to be honest. I refer to 80 year old hollocaust survivors being dragged out of parliament by bouncers, simply for disagreeing with Blair or people being attacked by police for protesting in mass.
This whole idea of Blair grinning from ear to ear and lecturing other countries on democracy basically gets right up my nose. Where, I ask, is this democracy? In what way are decisions being made that involve actual people having a say?
To be honest, Blair now seems to be out to convince the French that his sweatshop worker-rights policy of long hours, low pensions and underpar social security is the way Europeans should head. This is being strongly opposed by young people in France who have now taken to the streets - almost like a small revolution.
That to me is people power in action. Why should the French consign themselves to zero working rights so fat-cats such as Blair and his ilk can get rich through the sweat of those he claims enjoy this wonderful democracy he lectures about.