Will anyone ever tell all?

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that someone will end up spilling the beans on the
entire peloton and name names of doped cyclists? I sorta get the idea
that at this point everyone is a bit afraid to say anything for fear of
stepping on Sir Lance's toes and making him mad.If the TDF continues to
lose sponsership (Skoda withdrew) money it seems as though the chances
of someone telling all will only increase.Come on Floyd....come clean
with us and start singing.I wonder if Sir Lance might be sweating a
little hoping that Floyd keeps quiet.Lance might end up running to his
Mom and make the bullies leave him alone

Jesus Manzano spilled the beans two years ago. His name was dragged
through the mud and his career ended - but it led to the Operation
Puerto bust a couple months ago. So don't hold your breath.

There's no real financial motive for anyone to end the party.
-DA74

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that someone will end up spilling the beans on the
entire peloton and name names of doped cyclists?

Didn't David Millar "spill the beans"?

Time will tell if I am being naive, but I do not believe this theory that
the entire peloton dopes. I don't think so many people could keep it a
secret. I find it hard to believe that hundreds of riders and their teams
are part of a huge conspiracy. That's may be over 1000 people. So, there
are a few bad apples but that's it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that someone will end up spilling the beans on the
entire peloton and name names of doped cyclists? I sorta get the idea
that at this point everyone is a bit afraid to say anything for fear of
stepping on Sir Lance's toes and making him mad.If the TDF continues to
lose sponsership (Skoda withdrew) money it seems as though the chances
of someone telling all will only increase.Come on Floyd....come clean
with us and start singing.I wonder if Sir Lance might be sweating a
little hoping that Floyd keeps quiet.Lance might end up running to his
Mom and make the bullies leave him alone

DA74 said:

Jesus Manzano spilled the beans two years ago. His name was dragged
through the mud and his career ended -

You mean he was crucified ?

Quoted message said:

but it led to the Operation Puerto bust a couple months ago. So don't
hold your breath.

It did ?

coldbeer! said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that someone will end up spilling the beans on the
entire peloton and name names of doped cyclists?

Didn't David Millar "spill the beans"?

Time will tell if I am being naive, but I do not believe this theory that
the entire peloton dopes. I don't think so many people could keep it a
secret. I find it hard to believe that hundreds of riders and their teams
are part of a huge conspiracy. That's may be over 1000 people. So, there
are a few bad apples but that's it.

David Millar admitted taking EPO, but he never said who was helping him
with his medical plan, and never said who else might have been
involved. An admission, yes. "Spilling the beans"? No.

Most of the dopers are clustered into large circles, as it is difficult
to find any old doctor who will just help them. Most of the teams have
gotten themselves away from providing direct assistance in terms of
doping (ok, some have not). But they still demand and expect results in
order for the riders to stay "in the show" and have a contract. The
racing and racing schedule has gotten no easier. The responsibility is
put on the riders exclusively. And so naturally, they all feel
compelled to dope in order to even STAY pro riders (and to win, of
course).

This has forced everyone who previously "had" a connection to find
other sources. This is why you see all these Spanish riders mixed with
Ullrich, Tyler and others...This is simply who they were able to hook
up with. Some riders have no connection, and handle things on their
own. Others are clean, last a short while, and get spit out. But for
certain, all of them know that the pressure to dope is very strong, and
they all feel it.

Have you ever wondered why Armstrong suddenly shifted his "in-season"
home to Spain from Nice, France? Wonder why so many other anglo riders
followed suit? These American riders BARELY race in spain. They fly to
virtually every race on the calendar. Why? Nice weather? No. They go
where their training dope is kept (and where their dope doc is
located). They have to do so much monitoring and testing, they need to
stay close to the source.

Quoted message said:

Didn't David Millar "spill the beans"?

Time will tell if I am being naive, but I do not believe this theory that
the entire peloton dopes. I don't think so many people could keep it a
secret. I find it hard to believe that hundreds of riders and their teams
are part of a huge conspiracy. That's may be over 1000 people. So, there
are a few bad apples but that's it.

David Millar had motivation to confess when he did. He only had a 2
year suspension. He confessed right before there was the additional 2
year suspension from riding on a pro team.

Donald Munro said:

DA74 said:

but it led to the Operation Puerto bust a couple months ago. So don't
hold your breath.

It did ?

Yes dickweed.
-DA74

Quoted message said:

David Millar admitted taking EPO, but he never said who was helping him
with his medical plan, and never said who else might have been
involved. An admission, yes. "Spilling the beans"? No.

I though he said Alberto Elli hooked him up.

JT

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DA74 said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but it led to the Operation Puerto bust a couple months ago. So don't
hold your breath.

Donald Munro said:

Quoted message said:

It did ?

DA74 said:

Yes dickweed.

Source ?

Donald Munro said:

DA74 said:

Quoted message said:

> but it led to the Operation Puerto bust a couple months ago. So don't
> hold your breath.

Donald Munro said:

Quoted message said:

It did ?

DA74 said:

Yes dickweed.

Source ?

www.cyclingnews.com
Latest Edition Cycling News for May 30, 2006
Edited by Les Clarke & Jeff Jones

Manzano statements pivotal to latest scandal

This week the investigation into doping in Spanish cycling will rely
upon declarations made by former Kelme rider Jésus Manzano to Italian
prosecutor Raffaele Guariniello in April 2004. The investigation moves
into its second week since the arrest of five people in connection with
a Civil Guard probe that uncovered what appears to be widespread doping
practices. Manzano was involved in a massive scandal in 2004 regarding
alleged doping practices by his former Spanish Division I team.

Eufemiano Fuentes, then Kelme team doctor, was questioned as a result
of Manzano's statements, after Manzano detailed the illicit practices
of Fuentes before or during races. It was alleged Fuentes administered
EPO, Trigon, caffeine, autotransfusions and the female hormone HCG
Lepori as part of his duties while team doctor.

It's likely the testimony of Manzano and his collaboration with the
investigation could also uncover the names of other athletes who have
been treated by Fuentes.

Cyclingnews will feature an interview with Jésus Manzano in the coming
days

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

coldbeer! said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What are the chances that someone will end up spilling the beans on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

entire peloton and name names of doped cyclists?

Didn't David Millar "spill the beans"?

Time will tell if I am being naive, but I do not believe this theory

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the entire peloton dopes. I don't think so many people could keep it a
secret. I find it hard to believe that hundreds of riders and their

teams

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are part of a huge conspiracy. That's may be over 1000 people. So,

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are a few bad apples but that's it.

David Millar admitted taking EPO, but he never said who was helping him
with his medical plan, and never said who else might have been
involved. An admission, yes. "Spilling the beans"? No.

I seem to recall seeing David in front of a committee, perhaps in his home
country, spilling his guts. I thought he was pretty useful to them at the
time. But perhaps not.

Quoted message said:

Most of the dopers are clustered into large circles, as it is difficult
to find any old doctor who will just help them. Most of the teams have
gotten themselves away from providing direct assistance in terms of
doping (ok, some have not). But they still demand and expect results in
order for the riders to stay "in the show" and have a contract. The
racing and racing schedule has gotten no easier. The responsibility is
put on the riders exclusively. And so naturally, they all feel
compelled to dope in order to even STAY pro riders (and to win, of
course).

Mum's the word?

Then there are only a couple hundred riders in this conspiracy and then
what, a handful of doctors and assitants, some masseurs, team directors...?
I am sorry because my [censored] meter is pegged in the red on this one.
Again, I think we are looking at just a few bad apples, the bunch as a whole
is OK. Time will tell if I am off the mark on this one. The idea that so
many people could be so successful (not getting caught) in this type of
conspiracy seems incredible to me.

Quoted message said:

This has forced everyone who previously "had" a connection to find
other sources. This is why you see all these Spanish riders mixed with
Ullrich, Tyler and others...This is simply who they were able to hook
up with. Some riders have no connection, and handle things on their
own. Others are clean, last a short while, and get spit out. But for
certain, all of them know that the pressure to dope is very strong, and
they all feel it.

Have you ever wondered why Armstrong suddenly shifted his "in-season"
home to Spain from Nice, France? Wonder why so many other anglo riders
followed suit? These American riders BARELY race in spain. They fly to
virtually every race on the calendar. Why? Nice weather? No. They go
where their training dope is kept (and where their dope doc is
located). They have to do so much monitoring and testing, they need to
stay close to the source.

OK, so I know you are speculating, but the obvious question is, what
happened to the doctor(s) living in France? In otherwords, give more
details about your theory.

coldbeer! said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

coldbeer! said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> What are the chances that someone will end up spilling the beans on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> entire peloton and name names of doped cyclists?

Didn't David Millar "spill the beans"?

Time will tell if I am being naive, but I do not believe this theory

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the entire peloton dopes. I don't think so many people could keep it a
secret. I find it hard to believe that hundreds of riders and their

teams

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are part of a huge conspiracy. That's may be over 1000 people. So,

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are a few bad apples but that's it.

David Millar admitted taking EPO, but he never said who was helping him
with his medical plan, and never said who else might have been
involved. An admission, yes. "Spilling the beans"? No.

I seem to recall seeing David in front of a committee, perhaps in his home
country, spilling his guts. I thought he was pretty useful to them at the
time. But perhaps not.

Quoted message said:

Most of the dopers are clustered into large circles, as it is difficult
to find any old doctor who will just help them. Most of the teams have
gotten themselves away from providing direct assistance in terms of
doping (ok, some have not). But they still demand and expect results in
order for the riders to stay "in the show" and have a contract. The
racing and racing schedule has gotten no easier. The responsibility is
put on the riders exclusively. And so naturally, they all feel
compelled to dope in order to even STAY pro riders (and to win, of
course).

Mum's the word?

Then there are only a couple hundred riders in this conspiracy and then
what, a handful of doctors and assitants, some masseurs, team directors...?
I am sorry because my [censored] meter is pegged in the red on this one.
Again, I think we are looking at just a few bad apples, the bunch as a whole
is OK. Time will tell if I am off the mark on this one. The idea that so
many people could be so successful (not getting caught) in this type of
conspiracy seems incredible to me.

Quoted message said:

This has forced everyone who previously "had" a connection to find
other sources. This is why you see all these Spanish riders mixed with
Ullrich, Tyler and others...This is simply who they were able to hook
up with. Some riders have no connection, and handle things on their
own. Others are clean, last a short while, and get spit out. But for
certain, all of them know that the pressure to dope is very strong, and
they all feel it.

Have you ever wondered why Armstrong suddenly shifted his "in-season"
home to Spain from Nice, France? Wonder why so many other anglo riders
followed suit? These American riders BARELY race in spain. They fly to
virtually every race on the calendar. Why? Nice weather? No. They go
where their training dope is kept (and where their dope doc is
located). They have to do so much monitoring and testing, they need to
stay close to the source.

OK, so I know you are speculating, but the obvious question is, what
happened to the doctor(s) living in France? In otherwords, give more
details about your theory.

What happened to the doctors in France? After Festina/1998, the French
police were on a freakin mission to bust down doors and catch as many
dopers as possible. The pressure was constant. Judges all over France
were starting investigations. Pro teams then shut down their internal
secret programs, forcing riders to find their own ways. I also imagine
most French dope docs got smart and closed-shop too. The new source
probably ended up being in Spain.

I think the doping riders also wisened-up. They knew they had to have
really solid medical advice to beat the dope tests, and that meant
trusting very few qualified docs. I imagine that with all the
increased scutiny, fewer docs were palying ball, and thus, the price
went up. In Puerto, we're seeing doping tabs of 35-60,000 euros per
season.

Someone else made a good point about how riders are probably beating
urine tests. They vanish into the team bus, shove a catheter up their
[censored], and swap dirty, doped pee for clean, pre-tested drug-free pee. If
a bunch of guys are willing to give themselves shots all season, and
take drugs, don't you think they'd be willing to have the team doc run
a foley catheter up their member?

Who knows...Perhaps Floyd gave a few too many interviews after stage 17
and ran out of time to swap his urine out before doping control called
him over.

I think a lot will be solved by cordoning off the riders past the
finish line, have dope control right there, and they have no contact
with team staff until after the sample is provided. Refreshments can be
provided in this area, etc. Then they can announce who is being called
into the trailer, or immediately call riders who have been selected.
And they need to test more riders.