Why winter train so much?

I race elites in Europe and I have a heart murmur. Don't really notice it much, and passed 2 medical examinations for the license.

Winter training is a drag here in Holland. Cold, rainy and windy and the accepted wisdom is to ride real slow, real long all winter.

4 hours at 28 km/h in 4 degrees celsius and drizzle is not that much fun.

Before I upgraded to elite I rode in the 1/2 cat and I maintained a steady regime of "hard" interval training (mainly indoor) through the winter trying to raise FTP. Last year I rode LSD all winter (not one minute on the 54) and it felt really strange, like I was taking a big risk.

However, all those hours add up to a seriously big engine and when its time to go hard you really notice a difference.

BullGod said:

However, all those hours add up to a seriously big engine and when its time to go hard you really notice a difference.

Cool so how did you get on last season. How much has your FT changed?

Well I just started riding last year and living in Canada I have little choice but to use a trainer in th ewinter. I'm not riding my babay in th esnow, slush and salt. I find if I train to a programme the time goes by not to bad but I also spend no more than an hour on the trainer.

I train in Winter on the road (and rollers) because thats when our ROAD SEASON is.
Here in NZ we have this nutty thing about racing in Winter so that those who can go to Europe (say) can be race fit enough to race there.
Most of us never / will never race overseas so its really stupid to have a race season through the coldest/wetest/snowy-est months.
It does help to keep the weight / lazyness at bay though.
Here in Auckland it doesn't get too cold - its more the rain and wind and dark that'll put me off training:o

I feel for you guys who get snowed in etc and can't get out on your bike at all - what a drag.

Summer here(now). In Auckland there is virtually no racing. Sure there are Crits (too dangerous and I'm too slow) and mini TTs but thats it apart from two 'fun' rides I usually do.

Summer🙂 = beautiful weather for riding but no reason to get anywhere near race fit (unless one is doing the Elite Nationals).

I see something from BullGod a few posts above this. I was wondering what happened to him - I used to enjoy his stuff on racing in Europe but he seemed to disappear for a while.

So tell us about your season........

Me or him above?

My season was pretty lack lustre....
I had a good build up as I didn't have much work in the early part of the year so I had some good speed / endurance but as the season went on I had a long bout of the flu and a strange cold that lasted over a month and I got knocked off my bike by a car driver who got sunstrike going up a hill and moved too close to the left and clipped me off:o
Thankfully she stopped and we sorted it out...and I recovered.

We also had some races cancelled due to lack of numbers so there wasn't enough entry fee to cover the traffic safety guys fees (!!).

I'm looking forward to Autumn / winter '09 - the main club I ride is going to start racing earlier and perhaps have a few weeks break in the worst months and go a bit longer at the end when the weather is getting better.
I can also afford to get some faster wheels too🙂

Thanks bbb, but I was really referring to BullGod.

Well ok, my race season too exciting huh?!🙂

This was one of those days that end up being extremely frustrating. I had to take it easy to get over an illness and missed two long rides along with training during the week. This was my first day back with the group and I led out a ride starting at 28 degrees F and ended at 38 F, but it wasn't so much the weather that was discomforting it is getting back in the groove with guys that have not had a break.

We only did a 50 mile ride, which is short by our normal standards so at around mile 40 my legs felt like they were on mile 90 of a fast paced century. It just really burned me up to lose that much conditioning so quickly.

Winter Train?
Today proves that if I don't keep it up I will have to drop back down to the slower group and I can't let that happen.🙁

Felt_Rider said:

This was one of those days that end up being extremely frustrating. I had to take it easy to get over an illness and missed two long rides along with training during the week. This was my first day back with the group and I led out a ride starting at 28 degrees F and ended at 38 F, but it wasn't so much the weather that was discomforting it is getting back in the groove with guys that have not had a break.

We only did a 50 mile ride, which is short by our normal standards so at around mile 40 my legs felt like they were on mile 90 of a fast paced century. It just really burned me up to lose that much conditioning so quickly.

Winter Train?
Today proves that if I don't keep it up I will have to drop back down to the slower group and I can't let that happen.🙁

Don't worry too much about it. Give it a couple of rides and you'll be back to where you were. While you do lose a little if you're off for a few weeks, you don't really lose all that much - but it's that little bit that you notice when you're struggling to keep up.

swampy1970 said:

Don't worry too much about it. Give it a couple of rides and you'll be back to where you were. While you do lose a little if you're off for a few weeks, you don't really lose all that much - but it's that little bit that you notice when you're struggling to keep up.

Yeah, I agree, don't sweat it. It takes much longer to lose basic endurance than it does your high end, IME, so you probably haven't lost that much. Even though you feel well enough to ride, I think your body is still trying to get healthy again. It won't be long before you will be back to normal again. Just be patient.

So back to the original question - why train so much in winter? In my case, I want to be "very good" (in a relative sense) in late April and into May to contribute to my team in the "Spring Classics". That means that I have to be very aerobically fit at that point and it takes months to build to the level that I am seeking. Hence, I will be "riding lots" (quoting Eddy Merckx) this winter.

Thanks swampy and Steve for keeping me rational.
It was my post ride frustration going public :o

velomanct said:

I don't really consider myself naturally talented. I was barely average as a junior racer. And I'm probably about average as an experienced 23 yr old. I still take days to recover from a hard race or training ride. That's not good talent.

Yes, I always sucked at Housatonic Hills RR, haha. Even got dropped in the 3s the last time I went there, 04 maybe. So yeah, crits are more my thing, or a non-hilly road race. (Bethel, New Britain, Hartford, and so on) So I guess my definition of 'big boys' is pertaining to non-hilly racing. Why are we talking about this though??? I feel as if I am defending myself because I'm being called out on bragging, when I clearly stated I am nothing special (although I am able to slack off in the winter, train smart in the spring, and hold my own alongside others who likely kill themselves all winter). There really should be no comparison between myself and others. It's just a comparison between myself from years ago, till more recent years. I still raced just as well, or even better during the season, when I took it easy over the winter.

Clearly, my point was missed. All I was trying to say is that torturing yourself on the indoor trainer and being miserable on 4hr rides through slush in January doesn't MAKE OR BREAK your season as a racer. Well, it shouldn't, at this amatuer level. I say this because I when I was a junior I thought it mattered. I thought I had to go through that hell in order to get good. I didn't.

But maybe most others are different? I just thought I'd bring up the IDEA, you guys decide for yourself, and PLEASE don't get so defensive because you feel like I am telling you how you must train.

Based on my own experiences, when I was younger I could easily take time off and have no problems attaining the same fitness levels from the previous year. However, at 47 years of age I have found it much more difficult (and painful) to get my body back into race shape after taking several months off in the winter.

I winter train because the only race I will be joining is on April and this winter training will lead up to that event. CTL currently at 104, my highest ever and I still feel good.

swampy1970 said:

When I lived back in England, from late Feb to early Nov it was either road racing or time trailing almost every saturday or sunday and then an evening 10 (or during mid June/July a 25) in the middle of the week - there's no time for getting in a high quality set of high end aerobic training during the summer if you race lots. Get it while you can and when you're going for it 5 or 10 miles out, be happy that you spent all those winter months getting ready for "that" moment.

Agree 100%.

Winter (in Ireland) is the time for training : if you're racing consistently throughout our season - early March to late October - there is little or no time to train.

Velo : if you read any of the blogs/books about professional riders, they all train throughout the winter after taking a very short break.

Yojimbo_ said:

I see something from BullGod a few posts above this. I was wondering what happened to him - I used to enjoy his stuff on racing in Europe but he seemed to disappear for a while.

So tell us about your season........

Well....season was long and tough. Due to having a small squad I was down for every race the team rode, and mentally that got pretty tough....especially as in Dutch Classics only about 30-40% of starters make it to the finish. Easy to get into a vicious circle of not finishing race - not getting into a race rhythm - training too much - not finishing race etc etc

I noticed my biggest weakness is riding smoothly and confidently in the pack. With the crosswinds in this part of the world, and the numerous crashes, being near the back is suicide. Unlike the pros, there is no taking it easy after a big pile up. The fallen riders and those stuck behind them are usually dropped for good. Rival team cars won't let you draft behind them!

I had great legs for a few weeks in May / june, then should have taken a rest before a week long stage race in July. Instead I kept plugging away, and in the Tour de Province de Luxembourg I managed to get myself eliminated on stage 1 of 4. That really hurt my motivation, but I was just feeling flat, tired and [censored]. Plus I was [censored] scared descending, as that was totally new to me. Even on a bad day I am an above average climber, but it's rare to see a rider gaining places on the way up the hill, and then getting dropped on the way down!

During the high summer I got into the habit of riding 3 hrs in the afternoon and then going straight to an evening training race, so ending up with 5+ hrs on the bike including 70km racing. Doing this mon, tues, weds every week led to me getting pretty overtrained, very thin and mentally tired.

I did take a rest, and then rebuild with eye on a crit in Amsterdam near to my house. I decided to write the last couple of classics off completely, just turn up to get dropped, but was busy with crit specific intervals, and training on the actual circuit. This paid off and I managed 12th place on the day....which considering I had only managed to finish 1 crit previously was pretty cool. Mother coming over from the UK to watch was good for the motivation. After that I ended my season (mid sept) and took a month off for drinking beer and romancing Dutch ladies ;-) Only exercise I did was one run (big mistake - engine much more in form than the running muscles) and some crunches.

Since November 1st I have been riding 3-4 hrs 4-5 times a week, averaging 28-31 km/h. Can be pretty miserable at times with the [censored] weather. I have also been riding a few times up the only hill in the North of Holland at 45rpm on the 53x16 to build some power and muscle.

Sometimes I wonder if I will ride elite level next year to be honest. It is a big effort, and I am turning 30 next spring. However, it is just so awesome to be out riding so much, and the thought of losing this level of fitness terrifies me. I think I am going to gove my all for one more year, especially as the team is looking a lot stronger and has a varied programme. We have 2 Dutch Olympic track riders joining us for a road season, and have quite a few races outside of Holland. Once a month in Belgium at a minimum, and in Belgium I usually ride well. Tour of Hungary would be awesome if I made the team.

As far as FTP is concerned - Now i work part time and have realised that you can train outdoors in any weather if you wear enough - I don't ride the KK anymore, so I have no idea of any imrpovement. I would expect so though, as there is easily another 12,000km in the legs since the last time I tested, plus my first season racing in the elite amateurs. According to the data online, at the level I am at you would expect to need at least 4 w/kg FTP to hang in the bunch.

Next year I want to train smarter, ride nearer the front, ride less races but prepare specifically for them and be totally motivated on the day. More Belgium, less Friesland would be nice.

Also want to ride the UK National Champs. Get on some photos with Cavendish and Millar on my wheel at the start and then hang on as long as I can.

BullGod said:

Well....season was long and tough. Due to having a small squad I was down for every race the team rode, and mentally that got pretty tough....especially as in Dutch Classics only about 30-40% of starters make it to the finish. Easy to get into a vicious circle of not finishing race - not getting into a race rhythm - training too much - not finishing race etc etc

I noticed my biggest weakness is riding smoothly and confidently in the pack. With the crosswinds in this part of the world, and the numerous crashes, being near the back is suicide. Unlike the pros, there is no taking it easy after a big pile up. The fallen riders and those stuck behind them are usually dropped for good. Rival team cars won't let you draft behind them!

I had great legs for a few weeks in May / june, then should have taken a rest before a week long stage race in July. Instead I kept plugging away, and in the Tour de Province de Luxembourg I managed to get myself eliminated on stage 1 of 4. That really hurt my motivation, but I was just feeling flat, tired and [censored]. Plus I was [censored] scared descending, as that was totally new to me. Even on a bad day I am an above average climber, but it's rare to see a rider gaining places on the way up the hill, and then getting dropped on the way down!

During the high summer I got into the habit of riding 3 hrs in the afternoon and then going straight to an evening training race, so ending up with 5+ hrs on the bike including 70km racing. Doing this mon, tues, weds every week led to me getting pretty overtrained, very thin and mentally tired.

I did take a rest, and then rebuild with eye on a crit in Amsterdam near to my house. I decided to write the last couple of classics off completely, just turn up to get dropped, but was busy with crit specific intervals, and training on the actual circuit. This paid off and I managed 12th place on the day....which considering I had only managed to finish 1 crit previously was pretty cool. Mother coming over from the UK to watch was good for the motivation. After that I ended my season (mid sept) and took a month off for drinking beer and romancing Dutch ladies ;-) Only exercise I did was one run (big mistake - engine much more in form than the running muscles) and some crunches.

Since November 1st I have been riding 3-4 hrs 4-5 times a week, averaging 28-31 km/h. Can be pretty miserable at times with the [censored] weather. I have also been riding a few times up the only hill in the North of Holland at 45rpm on the 53x16 to build some power and muscle.

Sometimes I wonder if I will ride elite level next year to be honest. It is a big effort, and I am turning 30 next spring. However, it is just so awesome to be out riding so much, and the thought of losing this level of fitness terrifies me. I think I am going to gove my all for one more year, especially as the team is looking a lot stronger and has a varied programme. We have 2 Dutch Olympic track riders joining us for a road season, and have quite a few races outside of Holland. Once a month in Belgium at a minimum, and in Belgium I usually ride well. Tour of Hungary would be awesome if I made the team.

As far as FTP is concerned - Now i work part time and have realised that you can train outdoors in any weather if you wear enough - I don't ride the KK anymore, so I have no idea of any imrpovement. I would expect so though, as there is easily another 12,000km in the legs since the last time I tested, plus my first season racing in the elite amateurs. According to the data online, at the level I am at you would expect to need at least 4 w/kg FTP to hang in the bunch.

Next year I want to train smarter, ride nearer the front, ride less races but prepare specifically for them and be totally motivated on the day. More Belgium, less Friesland would be nice.

Also want to ride the UK National Champs. Get on some photos with Cavendish and Millar on my wheel at the start and then hang on as long as I can.

You're in the toughest game of all BD : I admire the guys like you who go over to the Continent and make a go of it.
Well done.

And thanks for the post above.

Thanks for the update BD. Now I'm looking forward to next season's updates.

🙂

BullGod said:

According to the data online, at the level I am at you would expect to need at least 4 w/kg FTP to hang in the bunch.

OMG, yes. Emphatically yes.