Why Vino Did It?

Eagle of Toledo said:

From ES:

"Up to this year, only the Lausanne laboratory [in Switzerland] was conducting tests for homologous blood-doping," McQuaid said.

"But the Lausanne lab taught the French one how to detect it and therefore they were able to test Vinokourov's sample."

I always wondered how he could have been so stupid, this would make sense.

He saw it as his last chance to win the Tour - just as last year Landis saw it as his last chance to win. They had used these methods before and not been caught so they (wrongly) assumed they'd be safe.

Rolfrae said:

He saw it as his last chance to win the Tour - just as last year Landis saw it as his last chance to win. They had used these methods before and not been caught so they (wrongly) assumed they'd be safe.

I tend to agree, Rolf.
Perhaps he was hoping that it would ensure a performance to bring him the win.
Instead he was caught.

An ignominious end to what had been a very good career.

limerickman said:

I tend to agree, Rolf.
Perhaps he was hoping that it would ensure a performance to bring him the win.
Instead he was caught.

An ignominious end to what had been a very good career.

And unless he confesses and admits that he and his rivals at the time were all doping then all his wins will have question marks next to them. Now he can go home, sit back and swig vodka with his father - he'll always be a hero in Astana city.

Agree with you guys. All that sounds plausible.

I guess my question should have been more along the lines of "Why Vino Did It While Thinking He Could Get Away With It?

Eagle of Toledo said:

Agree with you guys. All that sounds plausible.

I guess my question should have been more along the lines of "Why Vino Did It While Thinking He Could Get Away With It?

Targetted testing from the UCI I guess. Before he would get a [censored] test and pass and now they are targetting not only him but also the methods they suspect him of employing.

Rolfrae said:

Targetted testing from the UCI I guess. Before he would get a [censored] test and pass and now they are targetting not only him but also the methods they suspect him of employing.

+1. I think target testing is going to impact cycling in a very good way. If the top tier riders and consistently tested in this way, they will have to back off their doping methods and you won't have runaway GTs like the ones Armstrong lorded over.

And it's not just the testing. I'd guess UCI/ASO/WADA have hired, for lack of a better term, private investigators to tail the suspected riders and their cadre during GTs and likely just prior to them. Consider why Vino resorted to using someone else's blood, a method that was gamble at best. Why not bring his own blood? I'll throw this out: because he couldn't get it across enemy lines.

There will still be days when riders will drill the living daylights out of their competition for no apparent reason, and in all fairness, some of those performances will be legitimate. But, when those performances take place, there will be -- and should be -- target testing and investigating.

When you consider all the highly thought out ways drug smugglers get their payload across boarders, I'd be surprised if the days of blood doping are over.

Rolfrae said:

he'll always be a hero in Astana city.

the president of Kazakhstan, Nursultan Nazarbayev, phoned Vinokourov, an honorary colonel in the Kazakh Army and the holder of the People's Hero (First Class) award, to affirm his faith last weekend. 'Alexandre, I trust you 200 percent. I want to receive you at my palace whenever you wish. This whole affair is only a provocation.'

iht.comBIKE.phpOpen ↗

lucybears said:

the president of Kazakhstan, Nursultan Nazarbayev, phoned Vinokourov, an honorary colonel in the Kazakh Army and the holder of the People's Hero (First Class) award, to affirm his faith last weekend. 'Alexandre, I trust you 200 percent. I want to receive you at my palace whenever you wish. This whole affair is only a provocation.'

iht.comBIKE.phpOpen ↗

Well, if Vino had any desire to confess, that possibility is gone now. Who would confess after someone of such stature within a developing country put his name and honour behind your innocence.

lucybears said:

... Vinokourov, an honorary colonel in the Kazakh Army and the holder of the People's Hero (First Class) award...

Man I want to be an honorary colonel! Do I get a uniform with eppilets?

I got to thinking though and I've realised how tempting doping must be. I mean it's not like I've always said no to drugs in the past and who wouldn't to power up mountains like Vino? Come on, just for the thrill of it!

Since I've not got the talent, I'll just have a beer and post on forums instead.

drmcmasters said:

Well, if Vino had any desire to confess, that possibility is gone now. Who would confess after someone of such stature within a developing country put his name and honour behind your innocence.

I guess there is a bit of difference when the man in question is the head honcho of your own country...

[quote="mrfrogger"]and who wouldn't to power up mountains like Vino? Come on, just for the thrill of it!
[/QUOTE

IIRC, this was [censored] Voet's take on why riders did it, not so much for the money/career but simply the feeling of "unbelievable" power.

I'm not saying that Vino has been established to have doped, as that is a process that is still underway. I also don't know why Vino would have doped, if he did. However, is it possible that Vino felt so humiliated by his inconsistent performance and all the time he had already lost that he felt he had to try for a stage win to "save" himself from total humiliation?

i have to think, with ferrari as his doc, he would have known the risks of using someone else's blood. it must have been a desperation move. i seriously have no idea if they were banking on some non-GC TTist to still have enough to win that first ITT, or he just wanted to go out with a bang or what.

musette said:

I'm not saying that Vino has been established to have doped, as that is a process that is still underway.

B-sample was 'non-negative' and he was fired from Astana, that pretty much confirms it.

musette said:

I also don't know why Vino would have doped, if he did. However, is it possible that Vino felt so humiliated by his inconsistent performance and all the time he had already lost that he felt he had to try for a stage win to "save" himself from total humiliation?

Sounds plausible.

I don't think it's a case of Vino saying 'what the hell I'll do it, got nothing to loose'
It's highly doubtful this was the first time, more than likely it's just standard and been doing it for a long time.

to me it doesn't male sense, surely he would have called Dr Ferrari and asked him if it would be safe, to which the response would have been no way- Also why was he not autologuosly doping with the chilled courier samples!

plectrum said:

to me it doesn't male sense, surely he would have called Dr Ferrari and asked him if it would be safe, to which the response would have been no way- Also why was he not autologuosly doping with the chilled courier samples!

Because as McQuaid has pointed out he probably didn't know that the second lab had been trained in the autologus transfusion test and probably didn't think he would be tested for it. Ferrari wouldn't have known this either. His team was also being watched far too closely to risk a courier with a blood bag.

Rolfrae said:

Because as McQuaid has pointed out he probably didn't know that the second lab had been trained in the autologus transfusion test and probably didn't think he would be tested for it. Ferrari wouldn't have known this either. His team was also being watched far too closely to risk a courier with a blood bag.

Ferrari knows everything, that is why he is the best.

Hell, I gotta go with Vino did not think they would test for that, so he thought he'd never get caught. And, as we all know, in Pro cycling, if you don't get caught you are not doping!