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why such a rip-off on shipping?

Started by Ben Pfaff · · Last activity · 21 posts · 730 views

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Road Cycling
Published
29 August 2006
Last activity
1 September 2006
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Ben Pfaff
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  1. I've been trying to buy a Park Tools FR-2 freewheel remover
    on-line for a couple of days, because none of the local bike
    shops have one. These things are the size of a socket for a
    wrench and weigh, according to the Park Tools website, 2.7 oz.
    According to the Postal Service, they can therefore be shipped in
    an envelope, first class for $1.00 (including their "not
    machinable" $.13 charge), or priority mail for about $4.

    So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    Complete rip-off.

    --
    Ben Pfaff
    email: [email hidden]
    web: http://benpfaff.org

  2. Ben Pfaff said:

    I've been trying to buy a Park Tools FR-2 freewheel remover
    on-line for a couple of days, because none of the local bike
    shops have one. These things are the size of a socket for a
    wrench and weigh, according to the Park Tools website, 2.7 oz.
    According to the Postal Service, they can therefore be shipped in
    an envelope, first class for $1.00 (including their "not
    machinable" $.13 charge), or priority mail for about $4.

    So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    Complete rip-off.

    --
    Ben Pfaff
    email: [email hidden]
    web: http://benpfaff.org

    Usually on line and mail order places charge shipping & handling rather
    than just shipping. Handling is pretty much independent of weight and
    is to reimburse the company for same. That said, one of the ways these
    outfits are able to offer lower prices on items is that the add on
    these charges. When you buy at a LBS you would never consider paying
    for the shipping in to the store or for the time of the salesperson
    helping you. So, those costs are built into the price. So, you are then
    comparing apples and oranges if you look only at the item charge.

    I never understand rants like this. If it isn't worth it to you don't
    buy it. It isn't that they are hiding anything. Also, I imagine that
    your LBS would order one for you and you can compare what they charge
    for the special order vs. the on line sources and you can then make
    your choice.

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ben Pfaff said:

    So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    Complete rip-off.

    They have high fixed costs associated with mail orders. The price is not
    a rip off if they advertise it and let you take your business elsewhere.

    Try asking your local bike shop to order it for you. Or use an on-line
    retailer like REI or Performance that offers free pickup at their
    local stores.

  4. gds said:

    I never understand rants like this. If it isn't worth it to you don't
    buy it. It isn't that they are hiding anything. Also, I imagine that
    your LBS would order one for you and you can compare what they charge
    for the special order vs. the on line sources and you can then make
    your choice.

    Plus, maybe they'll order a couple extra ones while they're at it and
    the next guy won't have to go through this.

  5. sally said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Ben Pfaff said:

    So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    Complete rip-off.

    They have high fixed costs associated with mail orders. The price is
    not a rip off if they advertise it and let you take your business
    elsewhere.

    Try asking your local bike shop to order it for you. Or use an
    on-line retailer like REI or Performance that offers free pickup at
    their
    local stores.

    And will usually price match.

  6. Ben Pfaff <[email hidden]> writes:

    [small 2.7 oz part]

    Quoted message said:

    So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    Complete rip-off.

    I owe the mail-order bike stores of the world an apology. My
    shipping confirmation email said, in part:

    The FR-2 shipped today via US Mail (Cheaper than UPS for a
    part this size) and the total charged to your Discover was
    $7.06.

    The price for the FR-2 itself was $5.95, so the $1.11 paid for
    shipping is about what I calculated it really should cost.
    --
    Ben Pfaff
    email: [email hidden]
    web: http://benpfaff.org

  7. "Diablo Scott" wrote: Plus, maybe they'll order a couple extra ones while
    they're at it and the next guy won't have to go through this.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Your comment reminds me of an experience I had with my LMS (motorcycle). I
    needed a part special ordered with fast shipment, so the store charged me
    for a long distance call to place the order. Later, they let slip that they
    always waited 'til the end of the day, so they could order as much as
    possible with a single phone call. But they charged each customer for the
    call.

  8. "gds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    Complete rip-off.

    --
    Ben Pfaff
    email: [email hidden]
    web: http://benpfaff.org

    Usually on line and mail order places charge shipping & handling rather
    than just shipping.

    I never understand rants like this. If it isn't worth it to you don't
    buy it.

    OK, then. How about I tell them to ship it, but not handle it?

  9. Ben Pfaff said:

    I've been trying to buy a Park Tools FR-2 freewheel remover
    on-line for a couple of days, because none of the local bike
    shops have one. These things are the size of a socket for a
    wrench and weigh, according to the Park Tools website, 2.7 oz.
    According to the Postal Service, they can therefore be shipped in
    an envelope, first class for $1.00 (including their "not
    machinable" $.13 charge), or priority mail for about $4.

    So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    Complete rip-off.

    --
    Ben Pfaff
    email: [email hidden]
    web: http://benpfaff.org

    I once bought a Compact Flash card from Amazon.com. The shipping was as
    I remember 5 bucks. It came in a box the size of a shoe box stuffed
    with adverts and shipping filler. Try buying carbon spacers for your
    fork from Nashbar, Performance or any semi-big online retailer and I
    bet it'll come in a box stuffed with their adverts. Of course the cost
    of sending you the unwanted adverts comes out of your pocket. This is
    one of my reasons for making my purchases from the UK. UK shops usually
    ship at cost.

  10. Quoted message said:

    I owe the mail-order bike stores of the world an apology. My
    shipping confirmation email said, in part:

    The FR-2 shipped today via US Mail (Cheaper than UPS for a
    part this size) and the total charged to your Discover was
    $7.06.

    The price for the FR-2 itself was $5.95, so the $1.11 paid for
    shipping is about what I calculated it really should cost.
    --
    Ben Pfaff

    Ben: For what it's worth, it's an item that we order on-demand from one of
    our suppliers (Trek, in this case) and sells for $6.95. A bit higher than
    the mail-order houses, but no shipping as long as it's part of a normal
    order (but of course you have to add sales tax). Lead time would be 4-5
    days, depending upon what day of the week.

    It's an "on-demand" item because it's a *Suntour* freewheel tool.
    Specifically a 2-prong Suntour freewheel tool, and 2-prong Suntour
    freewheels are both very rare these days and, for the most part, on their
    last legs and not worthy of spending the money for a tool that might only be
    used once. The alternative is to have the shop remove it; I believe it runs
    about $4 (which covers not just the time involved but also the fact that the
    infamous 2-prong Suntour freewheel *eats* tools for lunch. Make sure, when
    you use it, that you have the tool clamped to the freewheel, using the quick
    release.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  11. Mike Jacoubowsky said:

    Ben: For what it's worth, it's an item that we order on-demand from one of
    our suppliers (Trek, in this case) and sells for $6.95. A bit higher than
    the mail-order houses, but no shipping as long as it's part of a normal
    order (but of course you have to add sales tax). Lead time would be 4-5
    days, depending upon what day of the week.

    Mike, I actually stopped in at your Redwood City store last week
    to try to buy an FR-2, not realizing that it was such a rare
    item. The way I understood what you guys told me, it was such an
    oddity that I would *have* to order it online. Obviously, I
    misunderstood. I should have asked about ordering one for
    pick-up while I was there, but it didn't occur to me and your
    staff didn't suggest it. In the future, I'll definitely do that
    instead; I prefer to buy local.

    Quoted message said:

    It's an "on-demand" item because it's a *Suntour* freewheel tool.
    Specifically a 2-prong Suntour freewheel tool, and 2-prong Suntour
    freewheels are both very rare these days and, for the most part, on their
    last legs and not worthy of spending the money for a tool that might only be
    used once. The alternative is to have the shop remove it; I believe it runs
    about $4 (which covers not just the time involved but also the fact that the
    infamous 2-prong Suntour freewheel *eats* tools for lunch. Make sure, when
    you use it, that you have the tool clamped to the freewheel, using the quick
    release.

    The wheel that it goes on is of course old and not very exciting;
    it's a 27" with a 5-speed freewheel. Probably worth about $0,
    plus it needs a new spoke. But that's exactly why I want to do
    it myself. I'm trying to learn how to maintain my own wheels
    (truing, replacing spokes, etc.), and if I'm going to screw up
    and ruin a wheel or two while I'm at it, I'd rather do it to a
    worthless wheel on my utility bike than to a nicer, costlier
    wheel on my fun bike.

    PS: Other than that minor miscommunication I've got to say you
    guys were very helpful. I don't know the name of the fellow who
    helped me but he actually took the wheel into the back of the
    shop and checked out whether the rim was strong enough to take
    truing and therefore worth the trouble of servicing the wheel at
    all. At least, that's what I understood him to say; like I say,
    if I knew what I was doing I wouldn't be doing it at all.
    --
    "Ho ho ho. I _so_ enjoy making a fool out of myself."
    --Linus, on Christmas Day, 2000

  12. "Roger Houston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "gds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    Complete rip-off.

    --
    Ben Pfaff
    email: [email hidden]
    web: http://benpfaff.org

    Usually on line and mail order places charge shipping & handling rather
    than just shipping.

    I never understand rants like this. If it isn't worth it to you don't
    buy it.

    OK, then. How about I tell them to ship it, but not handle it?

    Obviously the poster who is complaining is not in business and does not have
    any understanding of what is involved. It costs a lot to keep things
    running. Mail order companies often have a lower margin than do stores, so
    the little handling price is to make sure they can keep people employed.

    Bruce

  13. Bruce Gilbert said:


    "Roger Houston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "gds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    >
    > So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    > Complete rip-off.
    >
    > --
    > Ben Pfaff
    > email: [email hidden]
    > web: http://benpfaff.org

    Usually on line and mail order places charge shipping & handling rather
    than just shipping.

    I never understand rants like this. If it isn't worth it to you don't
    buy it.

    OK, then. How about I tell them to ship it, but not handle it?

    Obviously the poster who is complaining is not in business and does not have
    any understanding of what is involved. It costs a lot to keep things
    running. Mail order companies often have a lower margin than do stores, so
    the little handling price is to make sure they can keep people employed.

    Bruce

    I saw a reply to negative feedback given for shipping and handling
    charges: "I don't get free gas, postage, boxes, tape, time or bubble
    wrap."

  14. "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yK7Jg.13114

    Quoted message said:

    snip <

    Quoted message said:

    It's an "on-demand" item because it's a *Suntour* freewheel tool.
    Specifically a 2-prong Suntour freewheel tool, and 2-prong Suntour
    freewheels are both very rare these days and, for the most part, on their
    last legs and not worthy of spending the money for a tool that might only
    be used once. The alternative is to have the shop remove it; I believe it
    runs about $4 (which covers not just the time involved but also the fact
    that the infamous 2-prong Suntour freewheel *eats* tools for lunch. Make
    sure, when you use it, that you have the tool clamped to the freewheel,
    using the quick release.

    The amazing thing to me is I encountered the exact same reaction when I used
    to go to my LBS. Of course they said that about every part or tool I asked
    for; everything from cone wrenches to flat pedals (flat pedals!). As it is,
    there is a really good shop that is about 60 miles from where I live, and
    this guy had 4 of the Suntour freewheel tools. He has also had every tool &
    part I've ever asked for in stock. I realize that's rare, but the things I
    typically ask for are not that unusual. I certainly don't _save_ money by
    driving 60 miles over to the store and 60 miles back, but I like the store
    and being able to see the stuff first hand rather than on a computer monitor
    or glossy catalog page.

    Cheers!
    Dukester

  15. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Obviously the poster who is complaining is not in business and does not
    have
    any understanding of what is involved. It costs a lot to keep things
    running. Mail order companies often have a lower margin than do stores, so
    the little handling price is to make sure they can keep people employed.

    Bruce

    I saw a reply to negative feedback given for shipping and handling
    charges: "I don't get free gas, postage, boxes, tape, time or bubble
    wrap."

    That's one I'll have to remember. But it doesn't include the worst issue
    lately.. UPS back-billing after the fact. Unbelievable how many extra
    surcharges they're hitting us with, that aren't included in the original
    total, determined on *their* site.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "R Brickston" <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Bruce Gilbert said:


    "Roger Houston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "gds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >>
    >> So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    >> Complete rip-off.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Ben Pfaff
    >> email: [email hidden]
    >> web: http://benpfaff.org
    >
    > Usually on line and mail order places charge shipping & handling
    > rather
    > than just shipping.
    >
    > I never understand rants like this. If it isn't worth it to you don't
    > buy it.

    OK, then. How about I tell them to ship it, but not handle it?

    Obviously the poster who is complaining is not in business and does not
    have
    any understanding of what is involved. It costs a lot to keep things
    running. Mail order companies often have a lower margin than do stores, so
    the little handling price is to make sure they can keep people employed.

    Bruce

    I saw a reply to negative feedback given for shipping and handling
    charges: "I don't get free gas, postage, boxes, tape, time or bubble
    wrap."

  16. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It's an "on-demand" item because it's a *Suntour* freewheel tool.
    Specifically a 2-prong Suntour freewheel tool, and 2-prong Suntour
    freewheels are both very rare these days and, for the most part, on their
    last legs and not worthy of spending the money for a tool that might only
    be used once. The alternative is to have the shop remove it; I believe it
    runs about $4 (which covers not just the time involved but also the fact
    that the infamous 2-prong Suntour freewheel *eats* tools for lunch. Make
    sure, when you use it, that you have the tool clamped to the freewheel,
    using the quick release.

    The amazing thing to me is I encountered the exact same reaction when I
    used to go to my LBS. Of course they said that about every part or tool I
    asked for; everything from cone wrenches to flat pedals (flat pedals!).
    As it is, there is a really good shop that is about 60 miles from where I
    live, and this guy had 4 of the Suntour freewheel tools.

    Four of the 2-prong Suntour freewheel tools in stock? I'm glad he's still in
    business; I can't believe there are many markets that would support the sale
    of one of those every couple of years. You'd generally be doing your
    customers a better deal by making sure you've got a couple in the service
    department, and offer to remove those old freewheels for a reasonable cost.
    Odds are that any such freewheel isn't going to have much life to it, and
    since you can't buy a replacement freewheel with the same removal mechanism,
    purchasing one is most-often a one-use deal.

    Quoted message said:

    He has also had every tool & part I've ever asked for in stock. I realize
    that's rare, but the things I typically ask for are not that unusual. I
    certainly don't _save_ money by driving 60 miles over to the store and 60
    miles back, but I like the store and being able to see the stuff first
    hand rather than on a computer monitor or glossy catalog page.

    Obviously, I would agree with the idea that seeing things first hand is
    preferable to an internet connection of catalog page, since I make no profit
    off either, but rather focus on having things ready to go when people come
    into the store. It's a tough thing trying to have the right mix though, but
    the different "personalities" among different shops ensures that the mix
    will be different from store to store. Sounds like you've found one that's a
    good match for your needs.

    The mechanics of staying in business are getting more difficult by the day,
    particularly as the price of land/rent goes up, up, and ever-higher up.
    Worker's comp and health insurance are two other costs that are going
    through the roof. Increased sales don't come close to covering the extra
    burden, so shops have to do everything they can to increase the sales
    generated by each sqaure foot of space. That means that items that don't
    "turn" quickly (basically a measurement of how long something sits on a
    shelf before being sold) need to be looked at closely and possibly replaced
    with items that sell more rapidly.

    In our case, that means that every couple of years we go through and find
    items that have gathered a whole lot of dust and donate them to one of the
    local cycling charities. I'd much rather be able to sell them, of course!
    And, of course, what ends up being donated at our shop might be items that
    sell briskly elsewhere.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

  17. "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Obviously the poster who is complaining is not in business and does not
    have
    any understanding of what is involved. It costs a lot to keep things
    running. Mail order companies often have a lower margin than do stores,


    so

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the little handling price is to make sure they can keep people employed.

    Bruce

    I saw a reply to negative feedback given for shipping and handling
    charges: "I don't get free gas, postage, boxes, tape, time or bubble
    wrap."

    That's one I'll have to remember. But it doesn't include the worst issue
    lately.. UPS back-billing after the fact. Unbelievable how many extra
    surcharges they're hitting us with, that aren't included in the original
    total, determined on *their* site.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
    www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "R Brickston" <rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Bruce Gilbert said:


    "Roger Houston" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    >
    > "gds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > news:[email hidden]...
    > >>
    > >> So why does every online retailer want $6-$8 for shipping?
    > >> Complete rip-off.
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> Ben Pfaff
    > >> email: [email hidden]
    > >> web: http://benpfaff.org
    > >
    > > Usually on line and mail order places charge shipping & handling
    > > rather
    > > than just shipping.
    > >
    > > I never understand rants like this. If it isn't worth it to you


    don't

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > buy it.
    >
    > OK, then. How about I tell them to ship it, but not handle it?
    >
    >

    Obviously the poster who is complaining is not in business and does not
    have
    any understanding of what is involved. It costs a lot to keep things
    running. Mail order companies often have a lower margin than do stores,


    so

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the little handling price is to make sure they can keep people employed.

    Bruce

    I saw a reply to negative feedback given for shipping and handling
    charges: "I don't get free gas, postage, boxes, tape, time or bubble
    wrap."



    We use FedEx ground for most of our shipping. They are less than UPS, but
    the fuel adjustments and other surcharges keep on going up, seems like
    weekly...

    Our product costs are going up every quarter. We may be forced to raise the
    wholesale price of our stuff one of these afternoons...

    Bruce

  18. Mike Jacoubowsky said:
    Quoted message said:

    I saw a reply to negative feedback given for shipping and handling
    charges: "I don't get free gas, postage, boxes, tape, time or bubble
    wrap."

    That's one I'll have to remember. But it doesn't include the worst issue
    lately.. UPS back-billing after the fact. Unbelievable how many extra
    surcharges they're hitting us with, that aren't included in the original
    total, determined on *their* site.

    And you're still using them??

    Disclaimer: UPS has been my shipping choice of last resort since one of
    their delivery men got tired of listening to my barking dog and chased
    him around the house. No UPS delivery person was safe after that,
    leading to one UPS deliverer changing the address on a package so she
    didn't have to come to my house.

    Pat

  19. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Pat Lamb said:

    And you're still using them??

    Disclaimer: UPS has been my shipping choice of last resort since one of
    their delivery men got tired of listening to my barking dog and chased
    him around the house. No UPS delivery person was safe after that,
    leading to one UPS deliverer changing the address on a package so she
    didn't have to come to my house.

    I just had a UPS delivery guy leave a package outside my very public
    front door, containing a $500 item. Didn't even bother to ring the bell
    (I was at home all day), and I didn't discover it 'til after dark.

    I've had several other experiences like this. UPS drivers used to be
    good, now it seems they'll hire anyone.

  20. On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 13:30:33 -0700, Timothy Smith <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Pat Lamb said:

    And you're still using them??

    Disclaimer: UPS has been my shipping choice of last resort since one of
    their delivery men got tired of listening to my barking dog and chased
    him around the house. No UPS delivery person was safe after that,
    leading to one UPS deliverer changing the address on a package so she
    didn't have to come to my house.

    I just had a UPS delivery guy leave a package outside my very public
    front door, containing a $500 item. Didn't even bother to ring the bell
    (I was at home all day), and I didn't discover it 'til after dark.

    I've had several other experiences like this. UPS drivers used to be
    good, now it seems they'll hire anyone.

    You're expecting a high dollar item and you hardly ever hear the
    [censored]. This happens all the time and you're held hostage waiting.
    Most of the deliveries handed off are only because I happened to be
    outside.

    I don't know whether they actually don't knock or carry a feather
    with them to tap on doors with. FedEx is no better unless you have a
    signature required package.

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