Why no store-bought, boxed wheelsets?

Bob in CT said:

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset?

These wheels may be fine. It appears the spokes are straight 14 gauge
(not butted) and the spoke brand isn't specified. I suspect these are
machine built wheels.

As a minimum, you should probably check spoke tension and stress
relieve.

Art Harris

Bob in CT said:

I bought a LeMond that has a wheelset that's too light. The rear wheel
flexes so much that it'll rub the brake pads. So, I bought this rear
wheel:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset? Why should I have, instead, purchased a
wheelset from someo<ne near me (assuming I could find someone who actually
built wheels)?

--
Bob in CT

Hi Bob,

no reason at all.

There's nothing inherently wrong with prebuilt wheels. You'll probably
get a lower price for a wheelset with given set of components over
going in to your LBS, buying the same set of components, and getting
them built up there.

The reason many people prefer the "hand built" option. is that the
build quality *tends* to be better.
The pre-built wheels are often machine built - some are then tweaked by
hand, others are not.
While a well built machine-built wheel is better than a badly
hand-built wheel, a well built hand built-wheel is the best of all.
They tend to stay in true better, break fewer spokes, and need less
attention over their lifetime.

You hit the nail on the head when you mention the need to find someone
who really can build wheels, as opposed to just slapping them together.
They're not as common as they used to be, but most towns have at least
proper LBS (in addition to the several shops who just sell widgets, I
mean bikes).

Even when the pre-built set is hand built, there's a few advantages to
going to the local guy for a custom build. The guy sitting in the bike
shop tends to take more care and time over the build - he's building
one set for you, not sitting on a production line churning them out,
and he knows you'll come back to him if they're not right. You can
also benefit from his advice and knowledge. He'll assess you (weight
etc), your bike and intentded use, and you can jointly choose exactly
the best components for your needs.
That said, there's a pre-built set available suitable for most needs.

I've bought both pre-built and custom built, in addition to building
for myself. All three methods produced good wheels, suitable to
purpose, though I had to spend some time working on the pre-builts to
relieve some "wound up" spokes, up the overall tension a little, then
retrue them

HTH.

Did you resell the orignal wheelset?

bookieb

Dans le message de news:[email hidden],
Bob in CT <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset? Why should I have, instead,
purchased a wheelset from someone near me (assuming I could find
someone who actually built wheels)?

- 'cause it's cooler to go with the group's psychology
- 'cause rim and hub manufacturers know nothing about building wheels
- 'cause the boxes are square, not round
- 'cause the de-tension gobelin lunches on half of them
- 'cause they cost less, when you look for deals
- 'cause goodness elves in little bike shops need to pay their bills
- 'cause they won't give you snob status
- 'cause they work fine, without fuss
- 'cause Mike Wolff said so (for CT only, not for the Republic)

Can't imagine any good reasons to buy wheels in a box.
--
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine
*******

La vie, c'est comme une bicyclette,
il faut avancer pour ne pas perdre l'équilibre.
-- Einstein, A.

Go for the Nashbar wheel--that's a great deal.

Nashbar wheels use DT spokes and come reasonably true. Destressing and
retruing are definitely in order.

I'm still riding a cheap Sora/MA3 set I got from them as an interim
wheelset till I could afford better ($100 for both wheels) and they've
held up fine after the initial tweaking and repacking and adjusting the
bearings (were WAY tight to begin with).

Bob in CT said:

I bought a LeMond that has a wheelset that's too light. The rear wheel
flexes so much that it'll rub the brake pads. So, I bought this rear
wheel:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=131&subcategory=1199&brand=&sku=15036&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

Here's what Nashbar says about them:

Extra strong with 32 14ga spokes laced 3X to a Ritchey Comp Rear hub,
this wheel is great for big guys, centuries, and cyclocross. Comp hub
features alloy shell with steel axle, serviceable steel ball bearings
and extra thick external seals to keep the gunk out and the grease in.
Ritchey Aero OCR Rim features a special offset cross section that
reduces wheel dish and increases strength plus has a ‘just right’
depth: deep enough to add strength, yet still able to use standard
length presta valve stems. Includes skewer and rim strip. Shimano 8/9
speed compatible freehub body. One year warranty through Ritchey
against defects in materials and workmanship.

I also purchased the matching front wheel.

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset? Why should I have, instead, purchased
a wheelset from someone near me (assuming I could find someone who
actually built wheels)?

There's no reason not to buy pre-fab wheels if you're not picky about
component choice. Bear in mind that you should factor in the price of
having the wheels stress relieved and tensioned/trued if you don't do
the work yourself. The other reason to buy from a local shop is to have
them chase warranty issues.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I bought a LeMond that has a wheelset that's too light. The rear wheel
flexes so much that it'll rub the brake pads. So, I bought this rear
wheel:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=131&subcategory=1199&brand=&sku=15

036&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

Quoted message said:

Here's what Nashbar says about them:

Extra strong with 32 14ga spokes laced 3X to a Ritchey Comp Rear hub, this
wheel is great for big guys, centuries, and cyclocross. Comp hub features
alloy shell with steel axle, serviceable steel ball bearings and extra
thick external seals to keep the gunk out and the grease in. Ritchey Aero
OCR Rim features a special offset cross section that reduces wheel dish
and increases strength plus has a ‘just right’ depth: deep enough to add
strength, yet still able to use standard length presta valve stems.
Includes skewer and rim strip. Shimano 8/9 speed compatible freehub body.
One year warranty through Ritchey against defects in materials and
workmanship.

I also purchased the matching front wheel.

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset? Why should I have, instead, purchased a
wheelset from someone near me (assuming I could find someone who actually
built wheels)?

At those prices it is kinda hard to go wrong because you would be hard pressed
to get the parts alone for that price. If I was building the wheels, I would
not have used straight gauge spokes. If I had bought these wheels, I would
check the tension and stress relieve them before I started to use them. It is
cheap insurance.
---------------
Alex

Bob in CT said:

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset? Why should I have, instead, purchased a
wheelset from someone near me (assuming I could find someone who actually
built wheels)?

I have the CXP22/ Shimano 2200 wheels, that Nashbar is selling for $75
a pair... the rims alone cost more than that! Like all the cheap
machine-built wheels I've gotten, the tension was too low... especially
in the rear. This needs to be fixed ASAP; especially with 14g spokes
the left side will go slack and they'll eventually fatigue and break.
It isn't big deal... just stress relieve and crank up the tension a
bit. Haven't touched mine in 3,000 miles so far.

The Shimano hubs also seem to need more grease in them if you plan on
ever riding in the rain or washing your bike... but that would be true
if you bought the hubs separately... don't know about Ritchey hubs.

The only reasons to have wheels hand built or custom is if you want
something different than what you can buy machine built, or if you
don't know how to tune them yourself, and there is nobody around who
can do it for you. In that case you'll know they've been done right, as
long as you get them from a good builder.

I did the same thing on my "costco" special. I received a free Motiv
brand mt bike. It was an older model. I took apart the hubs and
repacked it with grade 25 ball bearings and lots of new grease, then I
"stress-relieved" (that's squeezing the spokes, correct?) and trued the
wheel. Its now my main "commuter" and the wheels have been fine!

Nashbar has some great deals on wheels.

In the mid 1980's I bought a TREK 500 and moved to the midwest. After
one year of riding potholes, I flattened the heat treated rim. I paid
$50 for a new rim (identical) plus the re-lacing.

After about 3 weeks I flattened the dange thing again. These darned
heat treated rims could never be pulled true after warping in any way.

So I bought an ENTIRE nashbar wheelset SHIPPED for $60. I figured
that if I bent one of these rims i'd just order a whole new set. It
would be about the same price as a relace at the good LBS. Those
wheels came with fairly nice miche QR hubs and single-eyelet silver
700c polished rims. I still have those wheels, although some of the
eyelets pulled through, they solved my problem.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

Bob in CT said:

I bought a LeMond that has a wheelset that's too light. The rear wheel
flexes so much that it'll rub the brake pads. So, I bought this rear
wheel:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=131&subcategory=1199&brand=&sku=15036&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

Here's what Nashbar says about them:

Extra strong with 32 14ga spokes laced 3X to a Ritchey Comp Rear hub,
this wheel is great for big guys, centuries, and cyclocross. Comp hub
features alloy shell with steel axle, serviceable steel ball bearings
and extra thick external seals to keep the gunk out and the grease in.
Ritchey Aero OCR Rim features a special offset cross section that
reduces wheel dish and increases strength plus has a ‘just right’
depth: deep enough to add strength, yet still able to use standard
length presta valve stems. Includes skewer and rim strip. Shimano 8/9
speed compatible freehub body. One year warranty through Ritchey
against defects in materials and workmanship.

I also purchased the matching front wheel.

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset? Why should I have, instead, purchased
a wheelset from someone near me (assuming I could find someone who
actually built wheels)?

if you mean quality pre-built wheels like mavic [or whatever], they're
great, no problems with out of the box at all. i'm testing mavic cosmos
and shimano r540's right now. both are fine and coping with my >200#
load perfectly.

some of the other wheels like cheapo nashbar "assembled from components
you can buy seperately" wheels may be in urgent need of re-truing when
they first arrive, but they're totally great value for money.

Bob in CT said:

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset? Why should I have, instead, purchased a
wheelset from someone near me (assuming I could find someone who actually
built wheels)?

There is little reason not to buy boxed wheels. If you buy them from
a decent Local shop, they'll even check the build when they open the
box. Many shops no longer build wheels and even custom wheels are
built elsewhere and sent to them in a box.

Unfortunately, many boxed wheels have good components that are built
poorly. Uneven, undertensioned spokes are the most common flaws. The
dish is frequently not perfect and hub cones are too snug. The design
is for what sells and not what is best for the rider and riding
conditions. I've noticed more organized tours specifying that riders
have conventional wheels on the ride.

I like to own and ride equipment that is as good as possible.
Functionally good isn't enough for me. My car maybe, but not my
bikes.

Paul Kopit said:

Bob in CT said:

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset? Why should I have, instead, purchased a
wheelset from someone near me (assuming I could find someone who actually
built wheels)?

There is little reason not to buy boxed wheels. If you buy them from
a decent Local shop, they'll even check the build when they open the
box. Many shops no longer build wheels and even custom wheels are
built elsewhere and sent to them in a box.

it's essential to by from a shop that knows what they're doing. when i
got my shimano r540's the bike dude insisted on "truing" them for me.
he rounded off one nipple and they were laterally true, but completely
un-round. i refused them and insisted on another unopened box. /those/
wheels have been great & i haven't had to touch them. similarly, my
mavic cosmos's have been great - untouched out of the box - untouched by
incompetents.

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately, many boxed wheels have good components that are built
poorly. Uneven, undertensioned spokes are the most common flaws. The
dish is frequently not perfect and hub cones are too snug. The design
is for what sells and not what is best for the rider and riding
conditions. I've noticed more organized tours specifying that riders
have conventional wheels on the ride.

I like to own and ride equipment that is as good as possible.
Functionally good isn't enough for me. My car maybe, but not my
bikes.

"Art Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob in CT said:

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset?

These wheels may be fine. It appears the spokes are straight 14 gauge
(not butted) and the spoke brand isn't specified. I suspect these are
machine built wheels.

As a minimum, you should probably check spoke tension and stress
relieve.

Art Harris

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is meant by "machine-built" wheels?
Do you actually have automated equipment that can build wheels?

I was always under the impression that all wheel-building requires "human
intervention"!

Thanks

Basjan

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is meant by "machine-built" wheels?
Do you actually have automated equipment that can build wheels?

Yes.
-------------
Alex

Bob in CT said:

I bought a LeMond that has a wheelset that's too light. The rear wheel
flexes so much that it'll rub the brake pads. So, I bought this rear
wheel:

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=131&subcategory=1199&brand=&sku=15036&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=

Here's what Nashbar says about them:

Extra strong with 32 14ga spokes laced 3X to a Ritchey Comp Rear hub, this
wheel is great for big guys, centuries, and cyclocross.

I also purchased the matching front wheel.

So, why not buy a boxed wheelset? Why should I have, instead, purchased a
wheelset from someone near me (assuming I could find someone who actually
built wheels)?

--
Bob in CT

Most wheels out of a box have the potential to be a great set of
wheels. They are mainly bult by people that may not be good
wheelbuilders and may not be designed for you, specifically.

BUT a good local wheelbuilder can design a wheelset specifically for
you and your needs, and ensure it is well built. The wheels you
purchased arer OK but 14g and 32 would not ne my first choice for w
durable wheelset, along with the rear hub which is somewhat
problematic.

I think a 36h, shimano or Campag hubset, laced to an appropriate rim
for you and your needs is what would be best.

You can get a pretty nice suit from jc penney's as well, but if you
want it to fit really well, you either go to a tailor or buy the
Penney's one and have it altered by a Tailor.

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most wheels out of a box have the potential to be a great set of
wheels. They are mainly bult by people that may not be good
wheelbuilders and may not be designed for you, specifically.

BUT a good local wheelbuilder can design a wheelset specifically for
you and your needs, and ensure it is well built. The wheels you
purchased arer OK but 14g and 32 would not ne my first choice for w
durable wheelset, along with the rear hub which is somewhat
problematic.

I think a 36h, shimano or Campag hubset, laced to an appropriate rim
for you and your needs is what would be best.

You can get a pretty nice suit from jc penney's as well, but if you
want it to fit really well, you either go to a tailor or buy the
Penney's one and have it altered by a Tailor.

I recently purchased a brand new store-bought boxed wheelset from Bensbikes,
with the Wheelsmith label, Mavic Open Pro 700 silver rims using Wheelsmith
DB14 spokes 2.0/1.8mm with brass nipples on Shimano Ultegra 6500 9sp hubs
for $200.oo. They were smooth, trued and stress relieved right out of the
box. I installed the Ultegra 9sp cassette, made no derailleur adjustments
and had no problems or even a hint of out of true.
Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58098&item=7158760928I was going to build my own, but when I saw this I thought I try them out.It would damn near cost me that in materials alone.FWIW-tom

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 08:06:00 -0700, Tom Nakashima <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Most wheels out of a box have the potential to be a great set of
wheels. They are mainly bult by people that may not be good
wheelbuilders and may not be designed for you, specifically.

BUT a good local wheelbuilder can design a wheelset specifically for
you and your needs, and ensure it is well built. The wheels you
purchased arer OK but 14g and 32 would not ne my first choice for w
durable wheelset, along with the rear hub which is somewhat
problematic.

I think a 36h, shimano or Campag hubset, laced to an appropriate rim
for you and your needs is what would be best.

You can get a pretty nice suit from jc penney's as well, but if you
want it to fit really well, you either go to a tailor or buy the
Penney's one and have it altered by a Tailor.

I recently purchased a brand new store-bought boxed wheelset from
Bensbikes,
with the Wheelsmith label, Mavic Open Pro 700 silver rims using
Wheelsmith
DB14 spokes 2.0/1.8mm with brass nipples on Shimano Ultegra 6500 9sp hubs
for $200.oo. They were smooth, trued and stress relieved right out of
the
box. I installed the Ultegra 9sp cassette, made no derailleur
adjustments
and had no problems or even a hint of out of true.
Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58098&item=7158760928I
was going to build my own, but when I saw this I thought I try them
out.It would damn near cost me that in materials alone.FWIW-tom

Well, I'm going to see about the durability of these wheels (I can always
put my old wheels back on). If they suck, I'll chalk one up to
experience, and I'll have to find a local wheel builder.

--
Bob in CT

Tom Nakashima said:

I recently purchased a brand new store-bought boxed wheelset from Bensbikes,
with the Wheelsmith label, Mavic Open Pro 700 silver rims using Wheelsmith
DB14 spokes 2.0/1.8mm with brass nipples on Shimano Ultegra 6500 9sp hubs
for $200.oo. They were smooth, trued and stress relieved right out of the

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

box. I installed the Ultegra 9sp cassette, made no derailleur adjustments
and had no problems or even a hint of out of true.
Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58098&item=7158760928I was going to build my own, but when I saw this I thought I try them out.It would damn near cost me that in materials alone.FWIW-tom

Dear Tom,

I expect that they're nice wheels from Wheelsmith and hope
that you enjoy them.

But I noticed that the eBay auction doesn't mention
"stress-relief" and neither does the Benscycle site (it
doesn't even mention wheels as such):

http://benscycle.com/site/intro.cfm

Did you call or email Benscycle and ask them about stress
relief?

I also looked at the Wheelsmith site:

http://www.wheelsmith.com/index.html

They don't mention stress relief, either, but perhaps you
checked with Wheelsmith by phone or email?

I'm just curious. The interesting thing is that there's no
way to tell if a wheel's spokes have been squeezed together
or otherwise stretched, much less how hard.

Carl Fogel

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Nakashima said:

I recently purchased a brand new store-bought boxed wheelset from
Bensbikes,
with the Wheelsmith label, Mavic Open Pro 700 silver rims using Wheelsmith
DB14 spokes 2.0/1.8mm with brass nipples on Shimano Ultegra 6500 9sp hubs
for $200.oo. They were smooth, trued and stress relieved right out of the

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quoted message said:

box. I installed the Ultegra 9sp cassette, made no derailleur adjustments
and had no problems or even a hint of out of true.
Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58098&item=7158760928I
was going to build my own, but when I saw this I thought I try them
out.It would damn near cost me that in materials alone.FWIW-tom

Dear Tom,

I expect that they're nice wheels from Wheelsmith and hope
that you enjoy them.

But I noticed that the eBay auction doesn't mention
"stress-relief" and neither does the Benscycle site (it
doesn't even mention wheels as such):

http://benscycle.com/site/intro.cfm

Did you call or email Benscycle and ask them about stress
relief?

I also looked at the Wheelsmith site:

http://www.wheelsmith.com/index.html

They don't mention stress relief, either, but perhaps you
checked with Wheelsmith by phone or email?

I'm just curious. The interesting thing is that there's no
way to tell if a wheel's spokes have been squeezed together
or otherwise stretched, much less how hard.

Carl Fogel

Carl,
I figured they have been stressed relief as I gave the wheels a check before
I rode on them by flexing using the pushing down method on the wheels with
my weight and hands. I heard no popping or pinging sound, so I assumed they
were stressed relief. If I did hear that pinging, I would have put them in
my truing stand and check for runout. I've been riding on them just about
everyday since receiving the wheels in early June. They are still true and
as smooth as silk, I had to do nothing to them so far. I was going to check
the grease in the hubs, but I can see grease still every so slightly oozing
out.

I guess there will always be doubters in this newsgroup who will try to find
flaws with the wheels I purchased from Benscycle, but I'll to say I'm very
pleased with the performance and what I paid for them, and that's what
counts.

Bencycles also sells the Dura Ace wheelset, with the Open Pro's in black,but
they're $100.oo more.
I'm more of a rider and like the Ultegra, not interested in paying anymore
than I have too. The only thing I have that is Dura Ace is the downtube
shifters and I'm using them with the Ultegra rear derailleur. Never missed
a shift in 7 years.
-tom