Why does my back wheel twist round?

Quoted message said:

I carefully position the wheel in the centre of the frame and after a
few miles riding, it's much closer to the left chain stay than the
right. If I keep going it will eventually start rubbing.

Drop outs are forward facing horizontal. Hub is slightly oversize for
frame - 8 speed in 7 speed frame, less than 5 mm difference, just
takes a few extra seconds to get the wheel in. QR is done up as tight
as seems reasonable to me - any tighter and I'd need a tool to get it
open again.

Are the teeth on the Acorn Nut worn ?

Cheers

Neil

Quoted message said:

I carefully position the wheel in the centre of the frame and after a
few miles riding, it's much closer to the left chain stay than the
right. If I keep going it will eventually start rubbing.

Drop outs are forward facing horizontal. Hub is slightly oversize for
frame - 8 speed in 7 speed frame, less than 5 mm difference, just
takes a few extra seconds to get the wheel in. QR is done up as tight
as seems reasonable to me - any tighter and I'd need a tool to get it
open again.

This seems like a problem that has started over the past few weeks,
but it may have been happening to a lesser extent for a while.

It's presumably caused by my pedalling pulling the wheel forward on
one side. Is the solution just a new QR? To me a QR is a QR, I assumed
they lasted for ever, but Sheldon seems rather rude about the type I
have.

I presume you are doing your q/r up correctly (camming rather than
windmilling it).

Check that your skewer is not rusted into the axle and can move
freely. Otherwise, it should be as tight as you can close it without
excessive discomfort.

...d

Quoted message said:

I carefully position the wheel in the centre of the frame and after a
few miles riding, it's much closer to the left chain stay than the
right. If I keep going it will eventually start rubbing.

Drop outs are forward facing horizontal. Hub is slightly oversize for
frame - 8 speed in 7 speed frame, less than 5 mm difference, just
takes a few extra seconds to get the wheel in. QR is done up as tight
as seems reasonable to me - any tighter and I'd need a tool to get it
open again.

This seems like a problem that has started over the past few weeks,
but it may have been happening to a lesser extent for a while.

It's presumably caused by my pedalling pulling the wheel forward on
one side. Is the solution just a new QR? To me a QR is a QR, I assumed
they lasted for ever, but Sheldon seems rather rude about the type I
have.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/skewers.html

Rob

Lubricate the cam and try the skewer without the springs installed in
the axle

--
/Marten

info(apestaartje)m-gineering(punt)nl

Quoted message said:

I carefully position the wheel in the centre of the frame and after a
few miles riding, it's much closer to the left chain stay than the
right. If I keep going it will eventually start rubbing.

Drop outs are forward facing horizontal. Hub is slightly oversize for
frame - 8 speed in 7 speed frame, less than 5 mm difference, just
takes a few extra seconds to get the wheel in. QR is done up as tight
as seems reasonable to me - any tighter and I'd need a tool to get it
open again.

This seems like a problem that has started over the past few weeks,
but it may have been happening to a lesser extent for a while.

It's presumably caused by my pedalling pulling the wheel forward on
one side. Is the solution just a new QR? To me a QR is a QR,

No, they vary in design of cam & nuts, and length of lever. The more flimsy
ones may be OK for vertical dropouts with some luck, but you obviously need
something better for your bike.

Quoted message said:

I assumed
they lasted for ever, but Sheldon seems rather rude about the type I
have.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/skewers.html

There's your answer then. What skewer have you got exactly?

Upgrade to modern a Shimano QR. They can clamp more tightly than an average
skewer, while still being safe, and easy enough to undo.

~PB

Quoted message said:

I carefully position the wheel in the centre of the frame and after a
few miles riding, it's much closer to the left chain stay than the
right. If I keep going it will eventually start rubbing.

Drop outs are forward facing horizontal. Hub is slightly oversize for
frame - 8 speed in 7 speed frame, less than 5 mm difference, just
takes a few extra seconds to get the wheel in. QR is done up as tight
as seems reasonable to me - any tighter and I'd need a tool to get it
open again.

This seems like a problem that has started over the past few weeks,
but it may have been happening to a lesser extent for a while.

It's presumably caused by my pedalling pulling the wheel forward on
one side. Is the solution just a new QR? To me a QR is a QR, I assumed
they lasted for ever, but Sheldon seems rather rude about the type I
have.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/skewers.html

I infer from your comment your's is the external cam type. Listen to
Sheldon.

--
jeverett3<AT>sbcglobal<DOT>net (John V. Everett)

ps.

Hub cones may need readjusting if clamping the wheel more tightly than
previously. See Sheldon Brown's artricle on this, too.

~PB

Thanks to everyone for your various suggestions. Rounding up all the
replies together:

The teeth on the Acorn Nut don't seem particularly worn to me (but I
don't know what they looked like when new)

Yes, I cam rather than windmill the QR, and it moves very freely in
the axle

I will try without the springs (it is possible one of them fouls the
nut)

No idea what make the skewer is, its unbranded, came with a Rigida
wheel about 2 years ago (and has worked OK up to now).

Yes, it's an external cam.

Readjusting hub cones for tight clamping: I have known this in the
past but forgotten it, thanks for reminding me, will check tomorrow.

When I checked the acorn nut for wear just now , I noticed the dropout
was fairly dirty, even where the nut goes. My current guess is that
the spring fouled the nut which left a gap to let the dirt in, which
is failing to give a good grip. The back wheel didn't come off for
quite a long time, which would explain the build up. I've given it a
quick clean (I'm at work) and will try removing the spring on that
side and see how it goes. If that doesn't work, time for a new
(internal) QR.

Rob

in message <[email hidden]>,

(' ') said:

I carefully position the wheel in the centre of the frame and after a
few miles riding, it's much closer to the left chain stay than the
right. If I keep going it will eventually start rubbing.

Drop outs are forward facing horizontal. Hub is slightly oversize for
frame - 8 speed in 7 speed frame, less than 5 mm difference, just
takes a few extra seconds to get the wheel in. QR is done up as tight
as seems reasonable to me - any tighter and I'd need a tool to get it
open again.

This seems like a problem that has started over the past few weeks,
but it may have been happening to a lesser extent for a while.

It's presumably caused by my pedalling pulling the wheel forward on
one side. Is the solution just a new QR? To me a QR is a QR, I assumed
they lasted for ever, but Sheldon seems rather rude about the type I
have.

It's possible you aren't tightening your skewers enough; it's possible your
skewers aren't the best. But it's highly likely that you're 'mashing' -
pedalling at too low a cadence in too high a gear. This causes the
symptoms you observe, and also causes damage to your knees.

Learn to pedal faster in lower gears, and you'll probably find this problem
goes away - and, also, you'll find your cycling easier and more enjoyable.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; MS Windows: A thirty-two bit extension ... to a sixteen bit
;; patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a
;; four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that
;; can't stand one bit of competition -- anonymous

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

(' ') said:

I carefully position the wheel in the centre of the frame and after a
few miles riding, it's much closer to the left chain stay than the
right. If I keep going it will eventually start rubbing.

Drop outs are forward facing horizontal. Hub is slightly oversize for
frame - 8 speed in 7 speed frame, less than 5 mm difference, just
takes a few extra seconds to get the wheel in. QR is done up as tight
as seems reasonable to me - any tighter and I'd need a tool to get it
open again.

Quoted message said:

It's possible you aren't tightening your skewers enough; it's possible your
skewers aren't the best. But it's highly likely that you're 'mashing' -
pedalling at too low a cadence in too high a gear. This causes the
symptoms you observe, and also causes damage to your knees.

Learn to pedal faster in lower gears, and you'll probably find this problem
goes away - and, also, you'll find your cycling easier and more enjoyable.

Until you have to pull away having stopped in high gear >:-)
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I carefully position the wheel in the centre of the frame and after a
few miles riding, it's much closer to the left chain stay than the
right. If I keep going it will eventually start rubbing.

Drop outs are forward facing horizontal. Hub is slightly oversize for
frame - 8 speed in 7 speed frame, less than 5 mm difference, just
takes a few extra seconds to get the wheel in. QR is done up as tight
as seems reasonable to me - any tighter and I'd need a tool to get it
open again.

This seems like a problem that has started over the past few weeks,
but it may have been happening to a lesser extent for a while.

It's presumably caused by my pedalling pulling the wheel forward on
one side. Is the solution just a new QR? To me a QR is a QR, I assumed
they lasted for ever, but Sheldon seems rather rude about the type I
have.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/skewers.html

Rob

Does the hub have "shoulders" on the end of the cone assembly that fit into
the drop-out? I've come across the situation in the past where these
shoulders are fractionally wider than than the drop-out and won't allow the
QR to clamp properly IYSWIM. Generally occurs on older frames with narrow
steel drop-outs.

John Miller

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I carefully position the wheel in the centre of the frame and after a
few miles riding, it's much closer to the left chain stay than the
right. If I keep going it will eventually start rubbing.

Bent/cracked axle?

Simon Brooke said:

It's possible you aren't tightening your skewers enough; it's possible your
skewers aren't the best. But it's highly likely that you're 'mashing' -
pedalling at too low a cadence in too high a gear. This causes the
symptoms you observe, and also causes damage to your knees.

I'm sure you're right my cadence is too low. I've been trying to
improve it lately, and did a check last night going up my "big hill" -
average speed of 6 mph translates to a cadence of just under 70. Now I
know that's not great, but last year I didn't know anything about
cadence and thought using successively higher gears meant I was
getting better as a cyclist. Didn't record exact speeds, but I reckon
my cadence was in the low 40s, and may even have dropped into the high
30s on my "best" days. So I'm getting better.

And I didn't have this problem last year on the same bike, and I did
have it last night.

Quoted message said:

Learn to pedal faster in lower gears, and you'll probably find this problem
goes away - and, also, you'll find your cycling easier and more enjoyable.

I think my body lacks fast twitch muscles, I'm always better at
endurance things than doing anything fast. But I'm working on it. Have
a spare cycle computer which I intend to to rig up to measure cadence
when I have time, I think having a direct measure will let me set
targets such as 5 mins at 75 or whatever.

I reponse to other posters, no shoulders on the cone assembly, and
axle is certainly straight and not bent as far as I can tell (I did
crack one a while back, so that was worth checking, thanks)

Have had time to clean up the dropouts properly this morning, tweak
the skewer tightness. Will go out for a ride later, if there's still a
problem, time for a new skewer.

Rob

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Learn to pedal faster in lower gears, and you'll probably find this problem
goes away - and, also, you'll find your cycling easier and more enjoyable.

I think my body lacks fast twitch muscles, I'm always better at

According to Forrester, even at high cadence you're still using slow
twitch. In fact, this is the point: to exert more force on the pedal
you need to recruit more muscle fibres, and the body prefers slow twitch
until they're all in use, then it goes to fast twitch. So, high cadence
=> lower force per revolution => smaller number of muscle fibres
recruited => slow twitch => less fatigue

(This is my recollection from reading it a few years ago, I don't have
it to hand right now)

Quoted message said:

endurance things than doing anything fast. But I'm working on it. Have
a spare cycle computer which I intend to to rig up to measure cadence
when I have time, I think having a direct measure will let me set
targets such as 5 mins at 75 or whatever.

Getting a computer that measures cadence was the single most effective
thing I did to up mine. It's a lot easier to concentrate on a nice
smooth fast pedal stroke when you're not also concentrating on not
losing count :-)

-dan

Quoting Phil Cook <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Until you have to pull away having stopped in high gear >:-)

Okay, fine, if your back axle pulls loose you can change down thirty-eight
gears at a stop if you like. :-)
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!
Today is First Wednesday, Presuary.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>,

(' ') said:

I carefully position the wheel in the centre of the frame and after a
few miles riding, it's much closer to the left chain stay than the
right. If I keep going it will eventually start rubbing.

Drop outs are forward facing horizontal. Hub is slightly oversize for
frame - 8 speed in 7 speed frame, less than 5 mm difference, just
takes a few extra seconds to get the wheel in. QR is done up as tight
as seems reasonable to me - any tighter and I'd need a tool to get it
open again.

This seems like a problem that has started over the past few weeks,
but it may have been happening to a lesser extent for a while.

It's presumably caused by my pedalling pulling the wheel forward on
one side. Is the solution just a new QR? To me a QR is a QR, I assumed
they lasted for ever, but Sheldon seems rather rude about the type I
have.

It's possible you aren't tightening your skewers enough; it's possible
your skewers aren't the best. But it's highly likely that you're 'mashing'
- pedalling at too low a cadence in too high a gear. This causes the
symptoms you observe, and also causes damage to your knees.

Learn to pedal faster in lower gears, and you'll probably find this
problem goes away - and, also, you'll find your cycling easier and more
enjoyable.

I always thought the small chainring put more force on the rear axle at the
same power output. Not so?

Jim

Jim Higson said:

Simon Brooke said:

Learn to pedal faster in lower gears, and you'll probably find
this problem goes away - and, also, you'll find your cycling
easier and more enjoyable.

I always thought the small chainring put more force on the rear
axle at the same power output. Not so?

Well, certainly not relevant.

Lower gear does not necesarily imply smaller chainring, and lower gear
generally does imply lower pedal force, which translates to lower
chain tension in typical use (since one does not normally stand full
weight on one pedal in a low gear - it tends to lead to shooting
testicular pain, at least for a proportion of teh population).

People rarely cycle in a constant power output regime.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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