Why do they stand where they do?

Claire <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> For various reasons, this fall I've been using a commuter route that
:> requires the bike to be on the bus for the crossing over of Lake
:> Washington. Since I have a MFA in ASCII art, below please find an
:> illustration of the platform loading area:
:>
:> _____
:> | W |
:> | A |
:> | I |
:> | T |
:> | |_____________
:> |
:> | X X < PED
:> | __ _______
:> | | | |
:> | | | ^ |
:> | | | |
:> |____| | B |
:> | I |
:> | K |
:> | E |
:> | |
:>
:> The area marked "WAIT" has the platform where transit patrons line up
:> and wait for the bus, with the W showing where I need to be to load
:> the bike. The area marked PED is the main route for pedestrians to
:> reach the stop, and has stairs. The area marked BIKE is the way
:> bikes, those on wheelchairs, and some other pedestrians would reach
:> the stop.
:>
:> The Xs are where some people stand and wait for the bus. This drives
:> me insane. Don't they realize that if they stand there, no one can
:> get around them? They can be dodged, barely, if on foot. If you're
:> walking your bike (or if you were in a wheelchair), there's no way
:> you get around them. And they stand smack dab in the middle of the
:> intersection!
:>
:> What is *wrong* with these people? Why do they stand there? Can't
:> they figure out that after being jostled and having people
:> constantly say, "excuse me", trying to get by, that they'd get a
:> clue?

Some folks like to stand in an open space to be not-too-close to other
people?

Dear Claire--
Claire wrote:
A bunch of things I'm snipping to cut to the chase!

I'm a public transit patron myself, and one thing I've learned is to
never overestimate the thought processes of anyone involved --
including me. I've seen drivers blow UP at people asking "Is this the
30?" without realizing a) illiteracy is probably underrepported, b) the
stop where I usually hear THAT particular question IS a ten-route
transfer point that happens to be about three blocks away from The
Braille Institute and c) the signs are programmed so that half the time
they say "Go (sports team)" (and then there was the driver that liked
to change his route sign to mess with people, and the occasional bus
with the bad setting or faulty display). I've seen people ask drivers
"Does this route go past Azalea's house?" I've forgotten to check the
schedules myself, and have had to walk three hours as a result (not as
bad as the time Mr. Freewheel went "on vacation" and I was two hours
doing the velociped thing to literally limp home, next time that
happens I'll lower the seatpost first!).

This goes ALL the way to the top -- We've got green line, blue line and
orange line trolleys in San Diego, but a) ALL the trolleys are painted
RED (and it's a nice red, too) and b) some of the blue line trolleys go
to the stadium for special events, but most stop at Old Town so you
need to transfer to the green line if you wnat to keep going, and c)
the very newest trolley cars can NOT be boarded at the rear by
bicyclists trying to follow the bikes on trolley rules and d) I
understand WHY the did it (risk prevention) but I still think it's a
crock that, officially, two bicycles are allowed per trolley car except
during rush hours when only one is allowed per trolley car.

If you cast your mind back to junior high school and high school days,
you'll probably remember human logjams caused between classes by people
with nothing better to do than stand in small groups in the middle of
passageways, sometimes with perfectly good picnic tables all of two
meters away. Oh, why pick on minors -- the same things happen in
college. People do the "they also learn who stand and wait" routine
right outside the doors of 400 person capacity lecture halls!

Very few of us are at the top of our game all the time. Simply due to
it's nature, this is on display more with public transit patrons than
with other groups -- except the wack jobs who were parking their
monster trucks IN the bike lane Friday night, and then tried to argue
about it with the BIGGEST "Parking Enforcement Officer" I've ever seen.

Robert Leone, [email hidden] "Only you can prevent long sig files."

Claire said:

For various reasons, this fall I've been using a commuter route that
requires the bike to be on the bus for the crossing over of Lake
Washington. Since I have a MFA in ASCII art, below please find an
illustration of the platform loading area:

People in general are morons, I used to take one bus out of a bus
station (if you know Toronto, #95 out of York Mills station), you get to
the bus, there are 200 people waiting for a 160 person (crush capacity)
bus, and when the bus comes, they all jam on, and a few more run from
the subway stairs to crush on as well, as if this is the last bus, that
will go from this platform, ever. Then of course, they all complain
about how crowded it is.....

Me, I knew that buses were 5 - 7 minutes apart, so I would wait for that
bus to leave, then line up for the next one, along with the few dejected
souls that knew that they had missed the last bus. You know, I always
got a seat on that bus. Then again, I also knew that if I walked from
King station over to St. Andrew, that I could get on the subway before
the 65,536 people who were waiting at Union Station..... I never stood
on that train either....

W

"Claire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<snip rant>

These are the same people that exit the jetway in the airport and stand
there while 200 people what behind them to move out of the doorway. These
are the same people who will back up 15 cars in a parking lot while they
wait for someone to load their bags and pullout of a spot. These are the
same people that ride 8mph three abreast, or power walk on the multi-use
trail wearing ipods oblivious to all else around them.

It's an overstatement to say these people are selfish. Their actions aren't
that conscious. These are people who have absolutely no awareness of the
world around them save for a little bubble extending a foot beyond them.
They are the useless sheep of the world, members of the herd, people I've
heard refered to as "oblivions." You cannot change them, you just accept
them like you do the weather or road construction.

Tom

tcmedara <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> "Claire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:> news:[email hidden]...
:>>
:> <snip rant>
:>
:> These are the same people that exit the jetway in the airport and
:> stand there while 200 people what behind them to move out of the
:> doorway. These are the same people who will back up 15 cars in a
:> parking lot while they wait for someone to load their bags and
:> pullout of a spot. These are the same people that ride 8mph three
:> abreast, or power walk on the multi-use trail wearing ipods
:> oblivious to all else around them.
:>
:> It's an overstatement to say these people are selfish. Their
:> actions aren't that conscious. These are people who have absolutely
:> no awareness of the world around them save for a little bubble
:> extending a foot beyond them. They are the useless sheep of the
:> world, members of the herd, people I've heard refered to as
:> "oblivions." You cannot change them, you just accept them like you
:> do the weather or road construction.

Oh, and they represent about 80% of humankind and the rest of us are in
danger of contamination.

"Roger Zoul" wrote: Oh, and they represent about 80% of humankind and the
rest of us are in danger of contamination.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No, it only SEEMS that way, because we notice and remember the things that
inconvenience us. At the risk of giving a serious answer to a facetious
remark, I'll say this: Relax. Life is too short to be wasted fretting.

In article <CkT6f.20379$417.5803@okepread02>,

tcmedara said:

"Claire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<snip rant>

These are the same people that exit the jetway in the airport and stand
there while 200 people what behind them to move out of the doorway. These
are the same people who will back up 15 cars in a parking lot while they
wait for someone to load their bags and pullout of a spot. These are the
same people that ride 8mph three abreast, or power walk on the multi-use
trail wearing ipods oblivious to all else around them.

Maybe they're also the same ones who try to get
on an elevator while everyone on it is trying
to get off.

cheers,
another Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

[email hidden] wrote:

<a lovely rant about the joys of mass transit>

Boy, did you nail it. I found myself doing the bike-on-bus thing to get
home from work the other day due to mechanical failure, and it was up
there with a bout of dry socket in terms of my miserable experiences in
the past few months.

Not only it is impossible to figure out what buses you need to take if
you're a first time rider, but there are 4 different bus services to
recon with (regional, two abutting county services, and the university
service), and transfers at massive 5 acre intersections with 8 different
bus shelters, none of which are clearly labeled as to which stops where.
One bus had gotten twice as crowded as normal when we had to pick up the
passengers from another bus that had broken down, and I found myself
toward the back, unable to shout to the driver that I needed to get my
bike down and unable to dismount from the front of the bus when what I
thought might be my stop rolled by. I was so worried that he would drive
off with my bike on the rack that I forgot to flip it up when I
retrieved it. The driver scolded me horribly, and it was all I could do
to keep from crying.

MFA in ASCII? I love it!

--
Bob Burns
Mill Hall PA
(email is spamtrap)

"Claire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For various reasons, this fall I've been using a commuter route that
requires the bike to be on the bus for the crossing over of Lake
Washington. Since I have a MFA in ASCII art, below please find an
illustration of the platform loading area:

_____
| W |
| A |
| I |
| T |
| |_____________
|
| X X < PED
| __ _______
| | | |
| | | ^ |
| | | |
|____| | B |
| I |
| K |
| E |
| |

The area marked "WAIT" has the platform where transit patrons line up
and wait for the bus, with the W showing where I need to be to load the
bike. The area marked PED is the main route for pedestrians to reach
the stop, and has stairs. The area marked BIKE is the way bikes, those
on wheelchairs, and some other pedestrians would reach the stop.

The Xs are where some people stand and wait for the bus. This drives me
insane. Don't they realize that if they stand there, no one can get
around them? They can be dodged, barely, if on foot. If you're walking
your bike (or if you were in a wheelchair), there's no way you get
around them. And they stand smack dab in the middle of the
intersection!

What is *wrong* with these people? Why do they stand there? Can't they
figure out that after being jostled and having people constantly say,
"excuse me", trying to get by, that they'd get a clue?

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

The Wogster ([email hidden]) said...

Quoted message said:

People in general are morons, I used to take one bus out of a bus
station (if you know Toronto, #95 out of York Mills station), you get to
the bus, there are 200 people waiting for a 160 person (crush capacity)
bus, and when the bus comes, they all jam on, and a few more run from
the subway stairs to crush on as well, as if this is the last bus, that
will go from this platform, ever. Then of course, they all complain
about how crowded it is.....

As I recall from my days of riding the #95 out to Morningside, about 100
of the 200 could just as easily take the 95C (at that time) that only goes
as far as Victoria Park which just arrives just after they all crammed onto
the 95. Once in awhile, the 95C would arrive just before the 95, so the
line would drastically shorten (that's how I knew just how many could take
the 95C).

I always felt that during rush hours when there was a 95C operating, that
the regular 95 should operate as an express to Victoria Park, thus the
loads of people would be properly distributed.

--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"Never ascribe to malice what can equally be explained by incompetence."
- Napoleon
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: if replying by email, remove "remove." and ".invalid"

["Followup-To:" header set to misc.transport.urban-transit.]

Tom Keats said:

"tcmedara" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These are the same people that exit the jetway in the airport and stand
there while 200 people what behind them to move out of the doorway. These
are the same people who will back up 15 cars in a parking lot while they
wait for someone to load their bags and pullout of a spot. These are the
same people that ride 8mph three abreast, or power walk on the multi-use
trail wearing ipods oblivious to all else around them.

Quoted message said:

Maybe they're also the same ones who try to get
on an elevator while everyone on it is trying
to get off.

I think that they are not. Perhaps you could consider them both "selfish"
in a certain way, but they are differently so.

The pushy ones (the same ones who block the doors or try to push their
way onto a train before alighting passengers pass) are actively or
aggressively selfish. They know full well that there are other people
there, but they simply don't care.

The other sort are (as I think someone else noted) completely oblivious
about other people, and often much of the world around them. (The most
extreme case I've seen is that of stopping to gaze absently around ...
at the bottom of a moving escalator!)

On the other hand, I suspect that such people have other problems, such
as being the one's likely to be the victims of pickpockets. [I used to
find stories about pickpockets a bit odd, as I have never been the victim
of such, even when doing the things that are supposedly most risky --
the metro in Rome, the trams in Prague, etc. Occasionally I have been a
target, but the attempts always seemed (at least to me) so blindingly
obvious that it was difficult to imagine them being successful. Then,
not too long ago, I watched a show about pickpockets (from the BBC, I
think), and it was truly astounding how totally unaware was/is a certain
part of the population.]

--
greg byshenk - [email hidden] - Leiden, NL

"Claire" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:1130087375.105918.185160
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

Quoted message said:

Since I have a MFA in ASCII art

What school gives that degree?

In 1979, in college, I turned my art major friend onto ascii art. I
programmed some stuff on spec for him and let it run. There was an
accident with the chair rolling over some of the line printer output; I was
in a hurry, so I just gathered up the whole thing and left it for him. The
next time I was in the art department, the crumpled-up part was hanging on
a gallery wall as art.

--ag

Sorry Claire, I really cannot answer your question other than there are
many folks in the world who insist on practicing oblivion.

I can empathise with what you feel though. I get the same feeling when
watching "Wildest Police Videos"

- -

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Calvin Henry-Cotnam said:

The Wogster ([email hidden]) said...

Quoted message said:

People in general are morons, I used to take one bus out of a bus
station (if you know Toronto, #95 out of York Mills station), you get to
the bus, there are 200 people waiting for a 160 person (crush capacity)
bus, and when the bus comes, they all jam on, and a few more run from
the subway stairs to crush on as well, as if this is the last bus, that
will go from this platform, ever. Then of course, they all complain
about how crowded it is.....

As I recall from my days of riding the #95 out to Morningside, about 100
of the 200 could just as easily take the 95C (at that time) that only goes
as far as Victoria Park which just arrives just after they all crammed onto
the 95. Once in awhile, the 95C would arrive just before the 95, so the
line would drastically shorten (that's how I knew just how many could take
the 95C).

I always felt that during rush hours when there was a 95C operating, that
the regular 95 should operate as an express to Victoria Park, thus the
loads of people would be properly distributed.

Well there is (or was, I moved a couple of years ago) the 95E, which
doesn't stop at Bayview, but there always seemed to be some yahoo who
wanted to get off at Bayview.... What they really should do, is extend
the Sheppard subway to Victoria Park, run the 95 along York Mills,
north on Vic Park (express), then in and out of Vic Park North Station
on the Sheppard Line, back to York Mills (express), then continue along
York Mills. Most people going further East would go up to Sheppard,
take the Subway to nowhere, then hop the York Mills bus at the end point.

W

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some folks like to stand in an open space to be not-too-close to other
people?

I considered that maybe some folks not only want to stand not too close to
other people but also get a clear view of the road to see the bus approach.
But if this were the case, they'd stand on the other end of the T shaped
platform.

After thinking about this, I think there are some folks who have a
psychological need to be in a controlling location. By standing at the
intersection of the main ped path and the main wheels' path into the
platform, they know exactly who is entering and leaving -- they even have
some command over who comes it and out because the person has to stumble
over them to get by. I bet this isn't conscious.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Claire Petersky <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some folks like to stand in an open space to be not-too-close to

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

people?

I considered that maybe some folks not only want to stand not too

close to

Quoted message said:

other people but also get a clear view of the road to see the bus

approach.

Quoted message said:

But if this were the case, they'd stand on the other end of the T

shaped

Quoted message said:

platform.

After thinking about this, I think there are some folks who have a
psychological need to be in a controlling location. By standing at

the

Quoted message said:

intersection of the main ped path and the main wheels' path into the
platform, they know exactly who is entering and leaving -- they even

have

Quoted message said:

some command over who comes it and out because the person has to

stumble

Quoted message said:

over them to get by. I bet this isn't conscious.

This is silliness; why not just ask them? Excuse me, I'm sure that you
have a very good reason for waiting somewhere other than the
designated waiting area, and I'm wondering if you would be willing to
tell me what it is?

"Matthew Venhaus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Some folks like to stand in an open space to be not-too-close to

other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

people?

I considered that maybe some folks not only want to stand not too

close to

Quoted message said:

other people but also get a clear view of the road to see the bus

approach.

Quoted message said:

But if this were the case, they'd stand on the other end of the T

shaped

Quoted message said:

platform.

After thinking about this, I think there are some folks who have a
psychological need to be in a controlling location. By standing at

the

Quoted message said:

intersection of the main ped path and the main wheels' path into the
platform, they know exactly who is entering and leaving -- they even

have

Quoted message said:

some command over who comes it and out because the person has to

stumble

Quoted message said:

over them to get by. I bet this isn't conscious.

This is silliness; why not just ask them? Excuse me, I'm sure that you
have a very good reason for waiting somewhere other than the
designated waiting area, and I'm wondering if you would be willing to
tell me what it is?

Quite obviously a question that might be posed by someone who does not
regularly ride mass transportation in areas like New York City.

Sancho Panza <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matthew Venhaus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

> Some folks like to stand in an open space to be not-too-close

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other

Quoted message said:

> people?

I considered that maybe some folks not only want to stand not

too

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

close to

Quoted message said:

other people but also get a clear view of the road to see the

bus

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

approach.

Quoted message said:

But if this were the case, they'd stand on the other end of the

T

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shaped

Quoted message said:

platform.

After thinking about this, I think there are some folks who have

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

psychological need to be in a controlling location. By standing

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

intersection of the main ped path and the main wheels' path into

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

platform, they know exactly who is entering and leaving -- they

even

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have

Quoted message said:

some command over who comes it and out because the person has to

stumble

Quoted message said:

over them to get by. I bet this isn't conscious.

This is silliness; why not just ask them? Excuse me, I'm sure that

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have a very good reason for waiting somewhere other than the
designated waiting area, and I'm wondering if you would be willing

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tell me what it is?

Quite obviously a question that might be posed by someone who does

not

Quoted message said:

regularly ride mass transportation in areas like New York City.

What specifically would I know if I were a regular rider of mass
transportation in areas like New York City that would prevent me from
asking such a question?

"Matthew Venhaus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sancho Panza <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matthew Venhaus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>
> > Some folks like to stand in an open space to be not-too-close

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other
> > people?
>
> I considered that maybe some folks not only want to stand not

too

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

close to
> other people but also get a clear view of the road to see the

bus

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

approach.
> But if this were the case, they'd stand on the other end of the

T

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shaped
> platform.
>
> After thinking about this, I think there are some folks who have

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> psychological need to be in a controlling location. By standing

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the
> intersection of the main ped path and the main wheels' path into

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> platform, they know exactly who is entering and leaving -- they

even

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have
> some command over who comes it and out because the person has to
stumble
> over them to get by. I bet this isn't conscious.
>
This is silliness; why not just ask them? Excuse me, I'm sure that

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have a very good reason for waiting somewhere other than the
designated waiting area, and I'm wondering if you would be willing

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tell me what it is?

Quite obviously a question that might be posed by someone who does

not

Quoted message said:

regularly ride mass transportation in areas like New York City.

What specifically would I know if I were a regular rider of mass
transportation in areas like New York City that would prevent me from
asking such a question?

In order of severity: a glance that could wither a tree, a series of
specially chosen epithets, an arm, a shoulder, a chest or even more invading
your space with a good chance of unpleasant bodily contact. Try it some
time, especially at choicer stations.