Why do people like VDB

[QUOTE] posted by Hold My Beer An [/i]
[B]HGH and steroids in his house, and he claims its for his dog, making a joke of the whole thing.
Instead of being ostracized, people think he's a hero.


VDB might not be your favourite, but and thats fair enough, buthe is just one of many.

Generally, the cycling media has "allowed" the hero worship to continue with specific stars they pander to.

Despite the level of preparation they have been found to use.

At what point do you think they (media & public) would act in a " moral vein " by ostracising cyclists and teams whom are shown to have indulged in "preparations and special budgets" ?

They wont.

Not when money is involved.

EPREX <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email hidden]... <snip>

Quoted message said:

At what point do you think they (media & public) would act in a " moral vein " by ostracising
cyclists and teams whom are shown to have indulged in "preparations and special budgets" ?

Well, I think that many others are just as doped as Vandenbroucke, even riders who have never been
caught. Those others are lucky, but I'm not going to reward them for that by turning them into
paragons of virtue as opposed to Vandenbroucke. As long as they've done their suspensions, they're
all equally guilty (or innocent) and deserving of respect as far as I care.

Quoted message said:

They wont.

Not when money is involved.

Most of the public does not receive money from Vandenbroucke, nor do they really care about the
money he makes. Money is no factor in the public's support of him. Ofcourse, teh media wants to sell
its papers and broadcastings, but that can also be done by sending out stories about doping, which
are popular.

Jonathan.

Because VDB is still the greatest talent to come out of Belgium in recent years,,,,with or
without drugs.

Phil

"Phil Stone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Because VDB is still the greatest talent to come out of Belgium in recent years,,,,with or
without drugs.

Phil

Are Belgians reluctant to venture an opinion on Boonen, or is he viewed as having less
talent than VDB?

Carl Sundquist <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Phil Stone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Because VDB is still the greatest talent to come out of Belgium in

recent

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

years,,,,with or without drugs.

Phil

Are Belgians reluctant to venture an opinion on Boonen, or is he viewed as having less talent
than VDB?

It's a bit early to say. His palmares doesn't yet come close to that of VDB.

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

HGH and steroids in his house, and he claims its for his dog, making a

joke

Quoted message said:

of the whole thing. Instead of being ostracized, people think he's a

hero.

guy

Quoted message said:

win (if there are any).

People are fascinated with talent. Plus, VdB comes from a family with a long cycling pedigree.

My personal opinion is that he is a Tool. Any rider without his Talent and with his flaws would have
been out of the sport long ago. I'll save my admiration for someone who gets the most out of what
talent they have.

Remember when VdB's Dog talked of winning the TdF? It seems a lifetime ago.

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

HGH and steroids in his house, and he claims its for his dog, making a joke of the whole thing.
Instead of being ostracized, people think he's a hero.

Quoted message said:

win (if there are any).

Because people like the bad-ass. They vicariously enjoy bad boy antics like taking speed, smashing
up cars and making life hell for team bosses, especially if the guy still comes through with good
performances. Randy Moss, Jose Canseco, Allen Iverson, VDB, those guys kick ass.

-Amit

"Amit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

EPO,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

HGH and steroids in his house, and he claims its for his dog, making a

joke

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of the whole thing. Instead of being ostracized, people think he's a

hero.

guy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

win (if there are any).

Because people like the bad-ass. They vicariously enjoy bad boy antics like taking speed, smashing
up cars and making life hell for team bosses, especially if the guy still comes through with good
performances. Randy Moss, Jose Canseco, Allen Iverson, VDB, those guys kick ass.

I wouldn't criticize VdB if he was a troublemaker and still brought his "A" game to the competition
like Allen Iverson does.

His difficulties have led to him not bringing it. He had phenomenal results in his first few years
as a pro and has wallowed ever since.

OTOH, his "the clenbutorol was for my dog" excuse was one of the best lines ever. It would make a
good t-shirt (only in America no one would know what it meant). It would be fun to get that printed
and wear it around Belgium.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

I wouldn't criticize VdB if he was a troublemaker and still brought his "A" game to the competition
like Allen Iverson does.

You obviously wrote this before Het Volk. Who is Allen Iverson?

Quoted message said:

OTOH, his "the clenbutorol was for my dog" excuse was one of the best lines ever. It would make a
good t-shirt (only in America no one would know what it meant). It would be fun to get that printed
and wear it around Belgium.

Almost as funny as USPS' claim that the drugs were for a "non-cycling member". Or that they forgot
to register thier rider's use of corticosteriods for a "saddle sore".

Of course, nobody here in "America" would get that, either.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

People are fascinated with talent. Plus, VdB comes from a family with a long cycling pedigree.

I think he threw the family history thing out the window when he he walked away from his Lotto
contract while Jean-Luc was director. You are right about the fascination with talent. I have little
respect for VDB, but the image of his ride in the '99 Ronde van Vlaanderen remains one of the most
beautiful in cycling for me. He recovered from a crash to chase down Museeuw and Van Petegem in the
final kilometers. Maybe if he'd won that sprint, things would have gone differently. I'm not saying,
he wouldn't have been a cheater, or would have grown more character, just that things might have
gone differently.

Bret

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

I wouldn't criticize VdB if he was a troublemaker and still brought his

"A"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

game to the competition like Allen Iverson does.

You obviously wrote this before Het Volk. Who is Allen Iverson?

VdB's Doggie has not been bringing his "A" game for several years now.

the palmares on his home page says:

1995: 7 wins
1996: 15 wins
1997: 8 wins
1998: 12 wins
1999: 8 wins
2000: 1 win
2001: 0 wins
2002: 0 wins

Amit said:

Because people like the bad-ass. They vicariously enjoy bad boy antics like taking speed, smashing
up cars and making life hell for team bosses, especially if the guy still comes through with good
performances. Randy Moss, Jose Canseco, Allen Iverson, VDB, those guys kick ass.

-Amit

VDB actually looks pretty good compared to those three. They've all been convicted of violent crimes
within the last year. You really admire them? I don't.

Bret

Quoted message said:

VdB's Doggie has not been bringing his "A" game for several years now.

OK, I am not sure what you mean by that, but VDB seems to have done a great ride in Het Volk today,
supporting Museew and Bettini. I think that the other teams must have felt pretty stupid after
Lefevre had his riders attack.

VDB was an essential part of the attack, perhaps the most important part save Museeuw. VDB can ride
away from almost anybody even now, and the other teams knew that, and covered his attacks. It was
pretty easy for Museeuw and Bettini to cover the threat that everybody knew VDB was.

And, what about that Tom Boonen? Nice ride.

"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

VdB's Doggie has not been bringing his "A" game for several years now.

OK, I am not sure what you mean by that, but VDB seems to have done a great ride in Het Volk
today, supporting Museew and Bettini. I think that the other teams must have felt pretty stupid
after Lefevre had his riders attack.

I meant the part that you snipped out:

the palmares on his home page says:

1995: 7 wins
1996: 15 wins
1997: 8 wins
1998: 12 wins
1999: 8 wins
2000: 1 win
2001: 0 wins
2002: 0 wins

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't criticize VdB if he was a troublemaker and still brought his

"A"

Quoted message said:

game to the competition like Allen Iverson does.

I never thought Iverson was the trouble maker that everyone makes him out to be. Yeah, the guy got
into trouble in his past and he likes to party (especially during the off season). Mostly because of
his image (corn rows, tattoos, ebonics, posse) I think that the press really tries to play up every
hint of a disagreement between him and Larry Brown. Every time that I've seen the guy interviewed,
he's been nothing but respectful of Larry, his teammates, and even other players/coaches. Kobe on
the other hand LOOKS like a nice guy, but is really a [censored].

One things for sure: that little [censored] is as tough as nails and loves to play. He gets the [censored]
knocked out of his 6-ft ass every game, and he still wants the ball and he's still gonna come at
you. I just wish he'd take fewer low-percentage shots.

Quoted message said:

His difficulties have led to him not bringing it. He had phenomenal

results

Quoted message said:

in his first few years as a pro and has wallowed ever since.

I interpret this as when he was young and took all the drugs that he could get his hands on, he rode
great. Now that the heats on him he doesn't ride as well.

Quoted message said:

OTOH, his "the clenbutorol was for my dog" excuse was one of the best

lines

Quoted message said:

ever. It would make a good t-shirt (only in America no one would know what it meant). It would be
fun to get that printed and wear it around Belgium.

[QUOTE]

Are Belgians reluctant to venture an opinion on Boonen, or is he viewed as having less
talent than VDB?

I think its too early to consider total potential for Boonen in respect of VDB.

VDB has awesome talent, and he has wasted a few years, and along the way won some classics in spectacular manner. (ie ghent wevelgem, luik bastenaken luik) and he would have gone close to landing the world title if he hadnt fallen off in Italy a few years ago.

Anyway, as said, this year he has a lot to prove.

[QUOTE]Most of the public does not receive money from Vandenbroucke, nor do they really care about the
money he makes. Money is no factor in the public's support of him. Ofcourse, teh media wants to sell
its papers and broadcastings, but that can also be done by sending out stories about doping, which
are popular.

Jonathan.

REPLY >>

The cycling media as a whole selectively ignores the "big boys" of cycling whom have been caught using various products.

Ok so a report is published so and so caught with product x, etc.

If they said it "as it happens", on a regular basis, then a few editors would be short of major copy on a regular basis, from the "stars & teams " that matter.

VDB is liked for his race results, and by racing with Quickstep it appears that he is under the right control again.

On a lighter note, I personally think that the " its for my dog " excuse was one of the funniest lines i have ever heard.

Whilst not trivialising the underlying dilemma.

"Bret Wade" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

VDB actually looks pretty good compared to those three. They've all been convicted of violent
crimes within the last year. You really admire them? I don't.

Brett,

Please post a reference to the violent crime that Allen Iverson was convicted of in the last year.

Thanks in advance, Brian

"Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Phil Stone" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Because VDB is still the greatest talent to come out of Belgium in recent years,,,,with or
without drugs.

Phil

Are Belgians reluctant to venture an opinion on Boonen, or is he viewed as having less talent
than VDB?

Here in Belgium there's never been talked about Boonen having more or less talent than VDB. Boonen
was a great rider in the youth categories. VDB too, but he got a lot more publicity even when he was
only 17 years. I think the cause of that is that VDB has allways been supported is the Flemish and
the Walloon media. Boonen only got some publicity in the flemish papers when he was an espoir. It's
a fact that VDB turned pro when he was only 19 year. They are both different riders. Boonen is
typically a rider for the classics of the north. A possible worldcup winner. VDB has more
possibilities. When he was a youth rider he was concidered to be once the winner of the tour the
france. Right now we know that won't happen but he still can make the difference on other tracks
than Boonen. He's able to win L-B-L, he's able to ride top 10 in Tour , Giro or Vuelta, and he even
won Paris-Nice. Those are things that Boonen cannot do. You just have to watch the difference in
their physical building. Boonen is really a big guy (over 1m80, certainly 75kg), has thighs like
trees, he's one block of power. VDB is much smaller, much lighter,is very fragile and slim. It's
almost unbelievable that he has so much power in his legs. I think VDB has more talent and
possibilities but here we don't compare the two, we are just happy have both riders.