Why do my Brooks saddles last less than one year?

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy? Or
for some other reason?

--
Bob in CT

Because you ride over 10,000 miles a year.

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy? Or
for some other reason?

Once a year doesn't match either my experience or the saddle's
reputation. How many miles?

In what way do they wear out? That might help diagnose it.

Some thoughts: Rain doesn't help, but these are English saddles and
it's rumored to rain a bit in England. You are using Proofhide above
and below the saddle? You are putting it on when the saddle has dried
out, not when it is wet?

Proofhide once a month certainly seems like enough. Probably a lot more
often than most of us.

Without asking "how heavy are you (or me)", I wouldn't think anything
up to at least 250 pounds would be a problem. Others may want to weigh
in on this, so to speak.

Sheldon warns about using the screw on the front of the saddle. Have
you been using it?

How did you break in the saddle?

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy? Or
for some other reason?

What do you mean by "lasts." exactly? Maybe you just need to adjust
the tension?

RichC

bill said:

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy?
Or
for some other reason?

--
Bob in CT

Because you ride over 10,000 miles a year.

Last year, I rode around 2,000 miles.

--
Bob in CT

Bob in CT said:

bill said:

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy?
Or
for some other reason?

--
Bob in CT

Because you ride over 10,000 miles a year.

Last year, I rode around 2,000 miles.

--
Bob in CT

I'd go back to your LBS and have them work with you to figure this out.
That might include going out and riding with you a bit. I've never
heard of a good saddle failing in only one year and 2000 miles without
some sort of major trauma involved. If this is happening to you
repeatedly there is something going on and whoever sold them to you
should help you discover the cause.

Bob Dole said:

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy?
Or
for some other reason?

Once a year doesn't match either my experience or the saddle's
reputation. How many miles?

In what way do they wear out? That might help diagnose it.

Some thoughts: Rain doesn't help, but these are English saddles and
it's rumored to rain a bit in England. You are using Proofhide above
and below the saddle? You are putting it on when the saddle has dried
out, not when it is wet?

Proofhide once a month certainly seems like enough. Probably a lot more
often than most of us.

Without asking "how heavy are you (or me)", I wouldn't think anything
up to at least 250 pounds would be a problem. Others may want to weigh
in on this, so to speak.

Sheldon warns about using the screw on the front of the saddle. Have
you been using it?

How did you break in the saddle?

I don't really break in the saddle, other than putting proofhide on it
perhaps at the beginning. I don't reduce the tension then increase the
tension, which I think is common. I simply ride the saddle for a while
and the adjust the tension using the screw/bolt on the front a bit higher
if I see sag. I do use proofhide on both the top and the bottom of the
saddle. I do ride in the rain, sometimes a lot, sometimes a little,
depending on the particular year. Last year, I rode around 2,000 miles
(or so). I would average around 100 miles per week. I weigh over 200
pounds.

Basically, what happens to the saddles is that they begin stretching
downward. The leather begins moving away from the rivets, which then
begin to dig into my behind (not comfortable for 60+ miles in the
saddle). I also begin to get saddle sores as the leather develops a hump
in between my sit bones.

This perplexes me, as these saddles are supposed to last 20+ years. I
just ordered my fourth saddle in four years.

--
Bob in CT

Bob in CT wrote:
:: On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 09:15:46 -0400, Bob Dole <[email hidden]>
:: wrote:
::
:::
::: Bob in CT wrote:
:::: For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year,
:::: the saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the
:::: rain? Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because
:::: I'm heavy? Or
:::: for some other reason?
::::
::: Once a year doesn't match either my experience or the saddle's
::: reputation. How many miles?
:::
::: In what way do they wear out? That might help diagnose it.
:::
::: Some thoughts: Rain doesn't help, but these are English saddles and
::: it's rumored to rain a bit in England. You are using Proofhide above
::: and below the saddle? You are putting it on when the saddle has
::: dried out, not when it is wet?
:::
::: Proofhide once a month certainly seems like enough. Probably a lot
::: more often than most of us.
:::
::: Without asking "how heavy are you (or me)", I wouldn't think
::: anything up to at least 250 pounds would be a problem. Others may
::: want to weigh in on this, so to speak.
:::
::: Sheldon warns about using the screw on the front of the saddle. Have
::: you been using it?
:::
::: How did you break in the saddle?
:::
::
:: I don't really break in the saddle, other than putting proofhide on
:: it perhaps at the beginning. I don't reduce the tension then
:: increase the tension, which I think is common. I simply ride the
:: saddle for a while and the adjust the tension using the screw/bolt
:: on the front a bit higher if I see sag. I do use proofhide on both
:: the top and the bottom of the saddle. I do ride in the rain,
:: sometimes a lot, sometimes a little, depending on the particular
:: year. Last year, I rode around 2,000 miles (or so). I would
:: average around 100 miles per week. I weigh over 200 pounds.
::
:: Basically, what happens to the saddles is that they begin stretching
:: downward. The leather begins moving away from the rivets, which then
:: begin to dig into my behind (not comfortable for 60+ miles in the
:: saddle). I also begin to get saddle sores as the leather develops a
:: hump in between my sit bones.
::
:: This perplexes me, as these saddles are supposed to last 20+ years.
:: I just ordered my fourth saddle in four years.

Where are you buying your saddles? That one place (starts with W, I think)
has very good support. You might take this up with either Brooks or the
place where you got the saddle. I think they come with very good
warranties, so if there is no obvious damage.

BTW, I never bothered the screw on mine....I just left it alone and let my
butt, pressure, and heat (from my butt on the saddle) do the work. I'm
wondering if this is your problem - adjusting that front adjustment too
much. I ride about the same as you and weigh a little more, but no problems
yet on mine and it's been over 2 years.

Bob in CT said:

Bob Dole said:

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy?
Or
for some other reason?

Once a year doesn't match either my experience or the saddle's
reputation. How many miles?

In what way do they wear out? That might help diagnose it.

Some thoughts: Rain doesn't help, but these are English saddles and
it's rumored to rain a bit in England. You are using Proofhide above
and below the saddle? You are putting it on when the saddle has dried
out, not when it is wet?

Proofhide once a month certainly seems like enough. Probably a lot more
often than most of us.

Without asking "how heavy are you (or me)", I wouldn't think anything
up to at least 250 pounds would be a problem. Others may want to weigh
in on this, so to speak.

Sheldon warns about using the screw on the front of the saddle. Have
you been using it?

How did you break in the saddle?

I don't really break in the saddle, other than putting proofhide on it
perhaps at the beginning. I don't reduce the tension then increase the
tension, which I think is common. I simply ride the saddle for a while
and the adjust the tension using the screw/bolt on the front a bit higher
if I see sag. I do use proofhide on both the top and the bottom of the
saddle. I do ride in the rain, sometimes a lot, sometimes a little,
depending on the particular year.

Riding in the rain is not a problem; riding a wet leather saddle is a
problem. Do you keep the leather dry?

Quoted message said:

Last year, I rode around 2,000 miles

Last year I rode 8500 miles, all on Brooks.

Quoted message said:

(or so). I would average around 100 miles per week. I weigh over 200
pounds.

Basically, what happens to the saddles is that they begin stretching
downward. The leather begins moving away from the rivets, which then
begin to dig into my behind (not comfortable for 60+ miles in the
saddle). I also begin to get saddle sores as the leather develops a hump
in between my sit bones.

Sounds like a 'riding a wet saddle' issue. I use a plastic cover on
mine if it is raining much. No problems.

If it were just the sag, then you can lace the sides to 'rejuvenate'.
But the pulling away from the rivets sounds like a moisture problem.

- rick

Bob in CT said:

Basically, what happens to the saddles is that they begin stretching
downward. The leather begins moving away from the rivets, which then
begin to dig into my behind (not comfortable for 60+ miles in the
saddle). I also begin to get saddle sores as the leather develops a hump
in between my sit bones.

You don't say what model Brooks you're riding but have you considered
installing rivets with larger heads? Wallingford sells them.

Here's some hacks you can try with your trashed saddles.
http://www.wallbike.com/content/butchering.html
--
zk

Bob in CT said:

bill said:

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy?
Or
for some other reason?

--
Bob in CT

Because you ride over 10,000 miles a year.

Last year, I rode around 2,000 miles.

I've ridden about 100 miles on my Brooks B17 Narrow, and it's just
starting to feel comfortable. I haven't used Proofhide. Instead, I
used saddle soap and a little baseball glove oil from the sporting good
shop. It's just now starting to become somewhat pliable and mold
itself to my body.

This is my first Brooks saddle and I hope it lasts a lot longer than
2000 miles.

Rick wrote:
:::
::: Basically, what happens to the saddles is that they begin stretching
::: downward. The leather begins moving away from the rivets, which
::: then begin to dig into my behind (not comfortable for 60+ miles in
::: the saddle). I also begin to get saddle sores as the leather
::: develops a hump in between my sit bones.
::
:: Sounds like a 'riding a wet saddle' issue. I use a plastic cover on
:: mine if it is raining much. No problems.

That's a good point. I have a cover that I put on my saddle if I'm out
riding when it starts raining. I think of it as a just in case move,
because you never know if you'll get soaked. And if you do, the saddle will
get good and wet. I avoid that.

rdclark said:

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy? Or
for some other reason?

What do you mean by "lasts." exactly? Maybe you just need to adjust
the tension?

RichC

Maybe he needs fenders...

Bob in CT said:

bill said:

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy?
Or
for some other reason?

--
Bob in CT

Because you ride over 10,000 miles a year.

Last year, I rode around 2,000 miles.

--
Bob in CT

I rode a Brooks in my Junior racing days. It was the small rivet kind.
It was pretty great for a while, but heavy and it did eventually get
swayback, and so I switched to a Concor (the original ones) and never
looked back.

When we hear that they are "supposed to last 20 years" where does that
information come from? I've been luck to get 5 years out of any
saddle. Usually it gets torn up or the padding goes bad.

I didn't use proofhide on my leather one, but I did put water repellent
on the underside--snowseal--to keep the rain from soaking it. I rode in
the rain a lot too. I didn't want it to get too soft, but I did saddle
soap it.

"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bob Dole said:

Sheldon warns about using the screw on the front of the saddle. Have
you been using it?

...I ... adjust the tension using the screw/bolt on the front a bit higher
if I see sag.

I've never touched the tension screw, partially through inertia and
partially based on Sheldon's advice. He's not a fan.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/leather.html
"Most leather saddles have a tension-adjusting nut located under the nose of
the saddle. Fortunately, this nut usually requires a special wrench, so most
people leave it alone. In almost every case that I know of where someone has
tried to adjust the tension with this nut, the saddle has been ruined. My
advice is to leave it alone.
If a leather saddle gradually becomes too soft and too wide after many
thousands of miles, it is sometimes useful to punch a few holes in the
bottoms of the side flaps and lace them together under the saddle frame.

This allows the width and firmness of the saddle to be adjusted to the
rider's taste. Some older models came with a row of holes along the lower
edge of the side flaps, for this very purpose.

I realize that this sounds like a lot of trouble, but most cyclists who take
the trouble find it well worth while--in the end."

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy? Or
for some other reason?

How much rain are you talking about? I've been riding the same Brooks
Team Pro for about 25 years now and it's holding up just fine. I
still have enough Proofhide in the original tin to last many more
years. But repeated exposure to water will ruin any leather product,
and too much Proofhide may soften the leather too much to hold its
shape.

--

John ([email hidden])

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year. Is it because I ride in the rain?
Because I use proofhide only about once per month? Because I'm heavy? Or
for some other reason?

Just how heavy are you?

What exactly is failing on the saddles?

My Brooks touring saddle is on its third bike, has at least 150,000
miles on it, and is still in excellent condition. I weigh around 180
and ride as much in the rain as in dry weather. I used Proofhide
when the saddle was new in the early '90s, and twice since then.

--
[email hidden] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html>

<y speculation, based on what you have told us: too much water on the
leather, leave the tension screw alone, too much Proofride.

If you play with the tension screw because of sag *after* the saddle's
been soaked in the rain, just stick a cheap plastic bag--as in "paper
of plastic?"--under the seat whenever the weather might be iffy. I
apply Proofride maybe 2-3 a year, tops.

Bob in CT said:

Bob Dole said:

Bob in CT said:

For the past three years, I've ridden Brooks saddles. Each year, the
saddle lasts less than one year.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How did you break in the saddle?

Quoted message said:

I don't really break in the saddle, other than putting proofhide on it
perhaps at the beginning. I don't reduce the tension then increase the
tension, which I think is common. I simply ride the saddle for a while
and the adjust the tension using the screw/bolt on the front a bit higher
if I see sag. I do use proofhide on both the top and the bottom of the
saddle. I do ride in the rain, sometimes a lot, sometimes a little,
depending on the particular year. Last year, I rode around 2,000 miles
(or so). I would average around 100 miles per week. I weigh over 200
pounds.

Basically, what happens to the saddles is that they begin stretching
downward. The leather begins moving away from the rivets, which then
begin to dig into my behind (not comfortable for 60+ miles in the
saddle). I also begin to get saddle sores as the leather develops a hump
in between my sit bones.

I think your weekly average or total mileage is a bit out :-)

I commute 2500 miles/year (all year, so some rain) on a Team Pro. I
found that the edges of the rivets were slightly proud of the leather
after about a year. I fixed this by bracing teh underside of the frame
(the transverse member that runs accross the back of the saddle)
against a cold chisel and gently hammering down the edges of the
rivets. I haven't needed to repeat the process

best wishes
james

m I

Quoted message said:

found that the edges of the rivets were slightly proud of the leather
after about a year. I fixed this by bracing teh underside of the frame
(the transverse member that runs accross the back of the saddle)
against a cold chisel and gently hammering down the edges of the
rivets.

It's much easier to use a tool called a burnisher. Rub it along the high
part of the rivet and it bends the rivet head back down into position.
No bracing or other tools needed. Takes a few seconds.