Why Do Legs Need Stretching but Not Arms?

In article <[email hidden]>, "NYC

XYZ said:

Hi, All!

Stupid goddamned googlegroups seems to have really ruined
usenet...can't find a yoga NG, but this should still be on-topic for
MFW:

How come legs need stretching but not arms? I mean, you know, joggers
need to stretch hamstrings and so forth, but lifters don't need to
twist their arms or anything...are upper limbs (is that an actual
term??) naturally more flexible than lower ones or something??

I think it is a little confusing to say 'legs need stretching'. Joints
need a certain range of motion. That range of motion is different for
different people. As well the ROM can be different for a passive stretch
than an active stretch.

So the bottom line in everyday life few people are inconvenienced by
inadeqate ROM in the wrsit, elbow and shoulder than in the knee and hips.
But the reality is people should do exercises to ensure adequate ROM about
upper body joints as well as lower body joints.

Things like carpal tunnel syndrome can be caused by inadequate ROM and
tightening of ligaments and tendons.

I've recently converted from powerlifting to olympic lifting and the
biggest challenge I face is getting shoulder fexibility. Leg flexibility
is fine.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:15:46 -0600, [email hidden]

(Hobbes) said:

I've recently converted from powerlifting to olympic lifting and the
biggest challenge I face is getting shoulder fexibility. Leg flexibility
is fine.

I was absolutely *amazed* how much shoulder flexibility is required to
do something like an overhead squat.

Ellis

In article <[email hidden]>, Ellis

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:15:46 -0600, [email hidden]

(Hobbes) said:

I've recently converted from powerlifting to olympic lifting and the
biggest challenge I face is getting shoulder fexibility. Leg flexibility
is fine.

I was absolutely *amazed* how much shoulder flexibility is required to
do something like an overhead squat.

The other problem I have in doing the squat [censored] is I tend to make up
for lack of shoulder flexibility by driving the knees forward - which
hurts the knees.

In executing the OH squat you really should try and push the butt back and
have the body inclined forward. Which requires even more shoulder
flexibility. My initial reaction was to do the split [censored]. But...

That would be too easy.

:^)

Oh, wow...! So is the squat the only exercise requiring upper-body
flexibility? I don't do squats 'cause they're so dangerous (that is,
potentially so -- so much more going on, I understand), and I prefer to
"target" my muscles besides.

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oh, wow...! So is the squat the only exercise requiring upper-body
flexibility? I don't do squats 'cause they're so dangerous (that is,
potentially so -- so much more going on, I understand), and I prefer to
"target" my muscles besides.

What caliber weapon do you use to "target" your muscles??

In article <[email hidden]>, "NYC

XYZ said:

Oh, wow...! So is the squat the only exercise requiring upper-body
flexibility? I don't do squats 'cause they're so dangerous (that is,
potentially so -- so much more going on, I understand), and I prefer to
"target" my muscles besides.

Squat [censored]. Not squat.

And exercises don't need stretches. ROM needs movement.

On 18 Feb 2005 13:30:05 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Oh, wow...! So is the squat the only exercise requiring upper-body
flexibility? I don't do squats 'cause they're so dangerous (that is,
potentially so -- so much more going on, I understand), and I prefer to
"target" my muscles besides.

Too scared to squat?

"Hobbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:khobman800-1802051327410001@localhost...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Ellis

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 13:15:46 -0600, [email hidden]

(Hobbes) said:

I've recently converted from powerlifting to olympic lifting and the
biggest challenge I face is getting shoulder fexibility. Leg
flexibility
is fine.

I was absolutely *amazed* how much shoulder flexibility is required
to
do something like an overhead squat.

The other problem I have in doing the squat [censored] is I tend to make
up
for lack of shoulder flexibility by driving the knees forward - which
hurts the knees.

In executing the OH squat you really should try and push the butt back
and
have the body inclined forward. Which requires even more shoulder
flexibility. My initial reaction was to do the split [censored]. But...

That would be too easy.

:^)

If anyone wants to have some real fun with shoulder flexibility, try it
with one or two kettlebells or dumbbells instead of a bar. Makes the
barbell version seem easy in terms of shoulder flexibility. I can
manage about 1/2 bw, that's 1/4 bodyweight in each kettlebell, and my
form still ain't perfect.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

NYC XYZ said:

How come legs need stretching but not arms? I mean, you know, joggers
need to stretch hamstrings and so forth, but lifters don't need to
twist their arms or anything...

They don't, why?

Quoted message said:

are upper limbs (is that an actual
term??) naturally more flexible than lower ones or something??

NYC XYZ said:

Quoted message said:

In executing the OH squat you really should try and push the butt back and
have the body inclined forward. Which requires even more shoulder
flexibility. My initial reaction was to do the split [censored]. But...

That would be too easy.

Quoted message said:

Oh, wow...! So is the squat the only exercise requiring upper-body
flexibility?

That is an OVERHEAD Squat.

Quoted message said:

I don't do squats 'cause they're so dangerous (that is,
potentially so -- so much more going on, I understand), and I prefer to
"target" my muscles besides.

So you don't know squat then. 😉

Any exercise has some potential for danger. Bad form can really increase
that as well.

NYC XYZ said:

Hi, All!

Stupid goddamned googlegroups seems to have really ruined
usenet...can't find a yoga NG, but this should still be on-topic for
MFW:

How come legs need stretching but not arms? I mean, you know, joggers
need to stretch hamstrings and so forth, but lifters don't need to
twist their arms or anything...are upper limbs (is that an actual
term??) naturally more flexible than lower ones or something??

Need for what reason?

Lots of people have inflexible pecs, shoulders, biceps, abs... this can
influence posture and possibly performance depending on the activity.

-Adam

Adam Fahy said:

Lots of people have inflexible pecs, shoulders, biceps, abs... this can
influence posture and possibly performance depending on the activity.

I should also add hand/finger/thumb inflexibility, and foot/toe
inflexibility too for that matter (really).

-Adam

That is dangerous advice for a newbie. A bar helps stabilize the lift --
dumbells allow "wandering," and can lead to injury. A clean and jerk with a
bar is very different than one with dumbells. Not to be advised even for
experienced lifters unless they go very light.
rjf
"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If anyone wants to have some real fun with shoulder flexibility, try it
with one or two kettlebells or dumbbells instead of a bar. Makes the
barbell version seem easy in terms of shoulder flexibility. I can
manage about 1/2 bw, that's 1/4 bodyweight in each kettlebell, and my
form still ain't perfect.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Bob Fusillo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That is dangerous advice for a newbie. A bar helps stabilize the
lift --
dumbells allow "wandering," and can lead to injury. A clean and jerk
with a
bar is very different than one with dumbells. Not to be advised even
for
experienced lifters unless they go very light.
rjf
"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If anyone wants to have some real fun with shoulder flexibility, try
it
with one or two kettlebells or dumbbells instead of a bar. Makes the
barbell version seem easy in terms of shoulder flexibility. I can
manage about 1/2 bw, that's 1/4 bodyweight in each kettlebell, and my
form still ain't perfect.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

The advice, offered as "if anyone wants to have some real fun", was for
the group, and really for anyone who can already manage a barbell OHS.
I agree that the bar stabilizes the lift. I'll also add that
kettlebells work better for me than dumbbells because you can, because
of the offset of the weight, push forward a bit instead of just trying
to balance. An altogether brutal but wonderful movement for an
experienced lifter interested in better shoulder flexibility to try -
and, as I mentioned, I use very light weights - for me at 150 lbs.
bodyweight, I use between 25 and 45 lbs. in each hand.

Steve "not top posting here" Freides
http://www.kbnj.com

On 18 Feb 2005 13:30:05 -0800, "NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Oh, wow...! So is the squat the only exercise requiring upper-body
flexibility?

He was talking about overhead squats:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/OverheadSquat.html

Ordinary squats don't require much upper body flexibility.

Quoted message said:

I don't do squats 'cause they're so dangerous (that is,
potentially so -- so much more going on, I understand),

Everything is potentially dangerous. "Everyone" should
squat. It is the best all around exercise in existence.

Quoted message said:

and I prefer to "target" my muscles besides.

What on earth do you mean by that? Do you prefer
isolation exercises? If so, you are wrong. Very wrong.

--
Helgi Briem hbriem AT simnet DOT is

"Helgi Briem" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

NYC XYZ said:

Oh, wow...! So is the squat the only exercise requiring upper-body
flexibility?

He was talking about overhead squats:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/OverheadSquat.html

I thought her (?) setup looked a bit far back, so I went to look at my
favorite Oly lifting site, WSU's and it's not available for some reason
(it's still listed in the site directory). Fortunately, there's
archive.org, and they had a copy

http://web.archive.org/web/20031211131138/www.wsu.edu/athletics/strength/ovs
quat.htm

In these pictures, he doesn't look like he's carrying the bar so far behind
him.

(My second favorite Oly site,
http://www.olympiclifting.citymax.com/page/page/91595.htm, has a message
that says, "This website has been cancelled." WTF? Archive.org had this
page, too, but none of the subpages were archived. :-(

Anyway, my question was, how far back should the bar be carried? (and
what's the right nomenclature for this?) In the WSU photos, his knees
appear more 'back' than the video in exrx, so it's not a shoulder thang,
like Keith described.

Thoughts?

Quoted message said:

Ordinary squats don't require much upper body flexibility.

I thought some people had trouble holding the bar on their traps. They
couldn't squeeze their shoulders back enough. Isn't that flexibility
issue? I know Keith was talking [censored] squats originally, but it seems to
me I have read about people having flexibility issues with regular squats,
haven't they?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't do squats 'cause they're so dangerous (that is,
potentially so -- so much more going on, I understand),

IOM?

Quoted message said:

Everything is potentially dangerous. "Everyone" should
squat. It is the best all around exercise in existence.

Quoted message said:

and I prefer to "target" my muscles besides.

What on earth do you mean by that? Do you prefer
isolation exercises? If so, you are wrong. Very wrong.

<whit>
word.
</whit>

Selene

--
There's nothing scarier than a soybean wielding a chainsaw. -- Lucas Buck

"Hobbes" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

NYC XYZ said:

Stupid goddamned googlegroups seems to have really ruined
usenet...can't find a yoga NG, but this should still be on-topic for
MFW:

How come legs need stretching but not arms? I mean, you know, joggers
need to stretch hamstrings and so forth, but lifters don't need to
twist their arms or anything...are upper limbs (is that an actual
term??) naturally more flexible than lower ones or something??

I'd submit that joggers don't need to stretch their hamstrings so much as
they need to warm up their hamstrings. Some may choose to do it through
(passive) stretching, others through dynamic movement. There have been
myriad discussions of the benefits of one over the other. If you believe in
warming up, then yes, lifters should do that for their upper body as well as
their legs.

Quoted message said:

I think it is a little confusing to say 'legs need stretching'. Joints
need a certain range of motion. That range of motion is different for
different people. As well the ROM can be different for a passive stretch
than an active stretch.

Some people say 'warm up', some people say 'active stretch.' :-)

Quoted message said:

So the bottom line in everyday life few people are inconvenienced by
inadeqate ROM in the wrsit, elbow and shoulder than in the knee and hips.
But the reality is people should do exercises to ensure adequate ROM about
upper body joints as well as lower body joints.

Things like carpal tunnel syndrome can be caused by inadequate ROM and
tightening of ligaments and tendons.

Keith, I'm curious about this carpal tunnel reference. I don't have
particular CT trouble (unless I'm mousing too much) but I have friends that
do. I thought it was more of an ergonomics thing. You're saying it's a ROM
thing? So what ROM exercises should be done for CT problems? Is that the
whole bend the hand down and up at the wrist deal?

Selene

--
There's nothing scarier than a soybean wielding a chainsaw. -- Lucas Buck

In article <[email hidden]>, "Selene"

Quoted message said:

"Helgi Briem" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

NYC XYZ said:

Oh, wow...! So is the squat the only exercise requiring upper-body
flexibility?

He was talking about overhead squats:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/OverheadSquat.html

I thought her (?) setup looked a bit far back, so I went to look at my
favorite Oly lifting site, WSU's and it's not available for some reason
(it's still listed in the site directory). Fortunately, there's
archive.org, and they had a copy

http://web.archive.org/web/20031211131138/www.wsu.edu/athletics/strength/ovs
quat.htm

In these pictures, he doesn't look like he's carrying the bar so far behind
him.

(My second favorite Oly site,
http://www.olympiclifting.citymax.com/page/page/91595.htm, has a message
that says, "This website has been cancelled." WTF? Archive.org had this
page, too, but none of the subpages were archived. :-(

Anyway, my question was, how far back should the bar be carried? (and
what's the right nomenclature for this?) In the WSU photos, his knees
appear more 'back' than the video in exrx, so it's not a shoulder thang,
like Keith described.

There are no hard and fast rules, but obviously the bar has to be in the
lifters center of balance. As a general rule - bar forward means the knees
have to come forward and the torso has to stay upright. So you better have
good knees and strong quads. Bar back - well, the arms have to be vertical
with any kind of weight so you better have good shoulder flexibility. Most
commonly the bar is held straight up from the back of the head.

Here is a shot of a young, well-balanced lifter with a good, strong catch
position.

http://tomgorman.moonfruit.com/[censored]

Generally you should try and spread the bar (attempt to pull the bar
apart) and push back during the ascent. Further back is better to a
certain degree, assuming the shoulder flexibility is good. Another way of
thinking of body position is to push your butt back and jutt your jaw
forward.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Selene"

Quoted message said:

"Hobbes" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

NYC XYZ said:

Stupid goddamned googlegroups seems to have really ruined
usenet...can't find a yoga NG, but this should still be on-topic for
MFW:

How come legs need stretching but not arms? I mean, you know, joggers
need to stretch hamstrings and so forth, but lifters don't need to
twist their arms or anything...are upper limbs (is that an actual
term??) naturally more flexible than lower ones or something??

I'd submit that joggers don't need to stretch their hamstrings so much as
they need to warm up their hamstrings. Some may choose to do it through
(passive) stretching, others through dynamic movement. There have been
myriad discussions of the benefits of one over the other. If you believe in
warming up, then yes, lifters should do that for their upper body as well as
their legs.

Quoted message said:

I think it is a little confusing to say 'legs need stretching'. Joints
need a certain range of motion. That range of motion is different for
different people. As well the ROM can be different for a passive stretch
than an active stretch.

Some people say 'warm up', some people say 'active stretch.' :-)

These are not necessarily the same thing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So the bottom line in everyday life few people are inconvenienced by
inadeqate ROM in the wrsit, elbow and shoulder than in the knee and hips.
But the reality is people should do exercises to ensure adequate ROM about
upper body joints as well as lower body joints.

Things like carpal tunnel syndrome can be caused by inadequate ROM and
tightening of ligaments and tendons.

Keith, I'm curious about this carpal tunnel reference. I don't have
particular CT trouble (unless I'm mousing too much) but I have friends that
do. I thought it was more of an ergonomics thing. You're saying it's a ROM
thing? So what ROM exercises should be done for CT problems? Is that the
whole bend the hand down and up at the wrist deal?

Yup. Stretch the wrists. There are a number of books available with
specific stretches, but I've never really worried about this as I haven't
had a problem.