Why do cars hate us so much

"Neil Watson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have had enough, everytime I go for a ride now, it seems that I cheat
death every day.
Cars , trucks, and buses just don't give a rats ass about cyclists.

They fail to give way to us, they zoom past about 12 inches from you, even
though I am nearly in the gutter.

Anyway, I think I will quit before I am killed.
[censored] cyclist.

There are some disrepectful drivers out there. You need to be careful about
where you place yourself on the road. Riding almost in the gutter creates
too much space in the lane and encourages other road users to try to share
your lane. I find riding a couple of feet out from the gutter forces them
to consider the cyclist ahead and move partially into the next lane. Sure,
some don't care but you may just find that taking a more assertive road
position increases your safety and the respect given to you.

Kevin
Happy Cyclist

K&C Russell said:

There are some disrepectful drivers out there. You need to be careful
about where you place yourself on the road. Riding almost in the gutter
creates too much space in the lane and encourages other road users to
try to share your lane. I find riding a couple of feet out from the
gutter forces them to consider the cyclist ahead and move partially
into the next lane. Sure, some don't care but you may just find that
taking a more assertive road position increases your safety and the
respect given to you.
Kevin Happy Cyclist

i agree

the reason 'they' hate us (careful not to lump em all in. probably
realistically approx 10% that hate us) is cos we're the answer. Their
the problem! 😄

If you put it all on paper common sense leans so heavily in our favour.

No emissions, better health, no noise pollution, minimal road/path-wear
and hence far less expenditure required, far less need of public health
system, far-less-likely-to-take-sick-leave, less parking space required

Election approaching. What are ours (and most governments'😉 biggest
areas of expenditure? Health and Roads. in that order. And the sad part
is the latter has a huge influence on the prior! Does anyone identify
this in public? Dont be daft. thats crazy-logical talk! The planet's
biggest cycling population, China, are rapidly growing in the
middleclasses. That means they can and do now afford cars. You think
ozone/environmental issues are a problem now? just wait until they belch
out more than the rest of the world combined.

But enough of the rant. You ride, you win. They drive we all lose!

As K&C says, ride assertively. After all, you affectively
subsidise them!!!

and smile, cos youre the better man

Dutch getting-less-of-me-all-the-time cyclist

--

Neil Watson said:

... they zoom past about 12 inches from you, even
though I am nearly in the gutter.

That's your problem, if you're in the gutter, and the pass within 30cm
then you aren't riding "as far left as is safe" you're riding far enough
left to be UNsafe. I had this problem when I started riding in the
Sydney CBD. If I kept right to the left of the bus lane, the busses
would still squeeze through - I swear that one passed so close that it's
left-side mirror passed just over the top of my head. Basically I ride
now in the middle of the lane, but to the left a bit.

I think your should try riding just under 1 metre from the left, say to
the 2/3 right of the left half of the lane. If you need it, or if it's
dangerous, take the middle of the lane.

Can you find someone else to ride with at these times ?

If you're in Sydney, have you considered riding with the bike bus ?

-kt

--
Kingsley Turner,
(mailto: [email hidden])
http://MadDogsBreakfast.com/ABFAQ - news:aus.bicycle Frequenly Asked Questions

"Neil Watson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

They fail to give way to us, they zoom past about 12 inches from you, even
though I am nearly in the gutter.

Kevin has already replied, but I want to reinforce his message. Riding
in the gutter sends the message that you belong in the gutter ("and
off the damn road!" usually follows that thought). Riding in the
middle of the lane says "I belong here, *you* can avoid me". You're
also easier to see, so drivers have more time to react to you -
they're not past before they realise you're there. Yes, that's bad
driving. Yes, there are a lot of bad drivers out there. I still cling
to the belief that most drivers are inept, not malicious. There are
exceptions...

I ride the Pacific highway between Turramurra and Sydney several days
a week. I use the middle of the lane, and even the second lane if
there are parked cars. Every now and then I get into a bit of verbal
with a clueless car courier, but generally I'm fine. If I sit in the
gutter, I get pushed past. You have the right to be on the road. The
law says you must stay as far left as practical, which applies to all
road users. If "practical" means you need to be in the second lane to
avoid weaving between parked cars and moving traffic, so be it.

Dave - who has been tempted to make up some cards with the relevant
sections of the Roads Act for those odd verbals...

--
Dave Hughes
[email hidden]
I want you to remember, I intend this breast
satirically. ~Coupling, "Flushed,"

Neil,

You didn't say how long you have been riding for. Many beginners ride
in the wrong locations. eg. Riding in the gutter is a bad idea. Does
your local bike group have experienced riders that can help?

In the end only you can decide what to do. But if every one that had
bad experiences complained to say, their local members and road
authorities, then something would be done about it.

As it is, everyone complains to each other, but (as a cycle activist,
and local bike group member), getting even cycle riders to complain to
the authorities about _anything_ is just so hard. Take the time and
write some letters. Go visit and talk.

Once work place 'accidents' where accepted, drunk driving deaths, fire
arm deaths, but with people speaking out, these things and more
changed.

"Neil Watson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have had enough, everytime I go for a ride now, it seems that I cheat
death every day.
Cars , trucks, and buses just don't give a rats ass about cyclists.

They fail to give way to us, they zoom past about 12 inches from you, even
though I am nearly in the gutter.

Anyway, I think I will quit before I am killed.
[censored] cyclist.

Random Data said:

Dave - who has been tempted to make up some cards with the relevant
sections of the Roads Act for those odd verbals...

apprently BV are working on something like this

in manhattan bike couriers carry A4 adhesive-backed stickers with the
relevant roadlaws printed onto the back (sticky side) ans wack on
abusive or recalcitrant drivers' windscreens. gives the driver ages to
read the message

a tad overboard perhaps but you can see the angle

Megan, can you give me a run down on what a bike-bus is exactly. Im
guessing its something lkike what my wife does with the kids walking to
school and picking up other kids along the way on a pre-arranged route
but would love to hear more on the bike version thereof...

--

Quoted message said:

If you're in Sydney, have you considered riding with the bike bus ?

-kt

Whats a bike bus?

"K&C Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Neil Watson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have had enough, everytime I go for a ride now, it seems that I cheat
death every day.
Cars , trucks, and buses just don't give a rats ass about cyclists.

They fail to give way to us, they zoom past about 12 inches from you, even
though I am nearly in the gutter.

Anyway, I think I will quit before I am killed.
[censored] cyclist.

There are some disrepectful drivers out there. You need to be careful about
where you place yourself on the road. Riding almost in the gutter creates
too much space in the lane and encourages other road users to try to share
your lane. I find riding a couple of feet out from the gutter forces them
to consider the cyclist ahead and move partially into the next lane. Sure,
some don't care but you may just find that taking a more assertive road
position increases your safety and the respect given to you.

Kevin
Happy Cyclist

I agree with Kevin and add that riding faster on the road enhances
safety, especially in 50 and 60 zones. At least, in my experience with
heavy traffic, riding faster makes you part of the flow and gives
drivers more time to see you and time their overtaking a bit better.
Otoh, it means they require more distance to overtake, so it is a bit
of a trade-off.

Ritch
(Also mostly a) Happy Cyclist

PS. I really have a problem with only about 0.1% of drivers, maybe
less on my daily 16km each way commute in Sydney. About once a week I
have to deal with a (more dangerous than usual) situation.

Greetings,
Well, Neil, it's simple, a small percentage of
motorists, as are some cyclists and every other community grouping, are
complete [censored]. A slightly larger percentage will do something
totally unacceptable if they think they have a good chance of getting
away with it, cf. last Monday's Four Corners on ABC.
I have had all of that and I have been shot at as well simply because I
was a cyclist, and therefore a suitable target for [censored]. I knew
what road rage was before they invented the term. I agree it's
depressing, but I don't know what to do about it in this car-mad, obese,
inconsiderate society we live in. I guess we have to live with it or
give up entirely and hibernate.
Regards,
Ray.

Neil Watson said:

I have had enough, everytime I go for a ride now, it seems that I cheat
death every day.
Cars , trucks, and buses just don't give a rats ass about cyclists.

They fail to give way to us, they zoom past about 12 inches from you, even
though I am nearly in the gutter.

Anyway, I think I will quit before I am killed.
[censored] cyclist.

Peter said:

Quoted message said:

If you're in Sydney, have you considered riding with the bike bus ?

Whats a bike bus?

http://galifrey.triode.net.au/bikebus/

Basically a bunch of people that ride 2-abreast, with a driver
and conductor that deciede when the 'bus' changes lanes, etc.

-kt

--
Kingsley Turner,
(mailto: [email hidden])
http://MadDogsBreakfast.com/ABFAQ - news:aus.bicycle Frequenly Asked Questions

Peter said:

Quoted message said:

If you're in Sydney, have you considered riding with the bike bus ?

-kt

Whats a bike bus?

for info about "bike bus" see

http://www.bikenorth.org.au/bikebus/

mike

--

Kingsley said:

Basically a bunch of people that ride 2-abreast, with a driver and
conductor that deciede when the 'bus' changes lanes, etc.
-

that's pure genius!

as usual the simplest ideas are the best. should really be promoted more
by BUGs and BV, etc

--

Ray Peace <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Greetings,
Well, Neil, it's simple, a small percentage of
motorists, as are some cyclists and every other community grouping, are
complete [censored]. A slightly larger percentage will do something
totally unacceptable if they think they have a good chance of getting
away with it, cf. last Monday's Four Corners on ABC.
I have had all of that and I have been shot at as well simply because I
was a cyclist, and therefore a suitable target for [censored]. I knew
what road rage was before they invented the term. I agree it's
depressing, but I don't know what to do about it in this car-mad, obese,
inconsiderate society we live in. I guess we have to live with it or
give up entirely and hibernate.
Regards,
Ray.

[snip]

Yesterday morning, at about 6:45 am on Beach Rd, Melbourne, a lunch
box was thrown at a bunch of us (maybe about 10 riders) from a
semi-trailer. We were going about 45 kmh, the truck maybe 60 kmh. You
could be killed by such a projectile.

So what do we cyclists do that casues drivers to hate us so much that
they would risk killing us on purpose ? (no excuse if the driver
didn't realise the danger of his actions)

I'm staggered by this hate.

To add to the horror stories, I was out riding with some fellow juniors
from my club (6 of us in all) when a ute zoomed past us, yelling
something out the window. He then slowed down a hundred metres in front
of us, came to a stop, and forced us to go round the outside of him.
However, as we went past, he sped up too, so we were riding next to each
other, us in the lane with oncoming traffic coming at us because he kept
nudging us over. One of the guys in our little group made a quick
acceleration to get in front of him and on the other side, safe from the
cars coming towards us, but when he was in front of the ute the driver
accelerated and came extremely close to hitting him on the rear tyre. He
then zoomed off, middle finger extended out the window.

So is there any reason why cars hate us so much? Many of my rides go
without a hitch, but today I got road-raged to a minor extent twice...
when I can understand why we are so despised, I will achieve
enlightenment. Asking the drivers won't help, because the only answer
they'll give is a monosylabbic grunt.

--

Etxy <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

So is there any reason why cars hate us so much? Many of my rides go
without a hitch, but today I got road-raged to a minor extent twice...
when I can understand why we are so despised, I will achieve
enlightenment. Asking the drivers won't help, because the only answer
they'll give is a monosylabbic grunt.

It's not that difficult.

Cyclists are perceived by a lot of drivers as:

1. Parasites who don't pay their way (no licence fees, registration fees,
compulsory insurance, fuel duties and levies, fines for doing 1kph over the
limit, etc);
2. Slow parasites who get in the way.

Said drivers have a sense of entitlement to the roads, that they are
deserving and cyclists undeserving, so when they think (FSVO think) they
will get away with it they will have a go at any cyclist within reach. It's
the same selfish mentality that top-posts.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

"Etxy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

To add to the horror stories, I was out riding with some fellow juniors
from my club (6 of us in all) when a ute zoomed past us, yelling
something out the window. He then slowed down a hundred metres in front
of us, came to a stop, and forced us to go round the outside of him.
However, as we went past, he sped up too, so we were riding next to each
other, us in the lane with oncoming traffic coming at us because he kept
nudging us over. One of the guys in our little group made a quick
acceleration to get in front of him and on the other side, safe from the
cars coming towards us, but when he was in front of the ute the driver
accelerated and came extremely close to hitting him on the rear tyre. He
then zoomed off, middle finger extended out the window.

So is there any reason why cars hate us so much? Many of my rides go
without a hitch, but today I got road-raged to a minor extent twice...
when I can understand why we are so despised, I will achieve
enlightenment. Asking the drivers won't help, because the only answer
they'll give is a monosylabbic grunt.

Take their plate. Get a friend who is a cop to find out their address. Go
to their house and ram a bike pump up their ass. Easy.

Fraser

I was out on a training ride in Brissie; we had split into two groups,
and both groups got hassled by a guy in a van. He hooned past in front
of us and then swung over onto the gravel roadside to spray us with
gravel. Much to our pleasure he nearly wrote himself off on the second
one and when we made an aggressive pack move to catch him he took off.

More recently a ute driver in Caboolture gave my group about 2 inches
clearance from the handlebars (and yes, it was two lanes each way, so he
had no excuse to be that close). There was a red light up ahead and when
we jumped out to the saddle to chase him down it was quite satisfying to
see him panic, pull out from the traffic and hook over the traffic
island into a "turn left at any time with care" lane.

Just this week a car travelling in the opposite direction from me
decided to pull a right turn and nearly hit me square in the side.
Really not much I could do, and it was a close call. Because it was in
the vicinity of the Uni, which is quite safe, I chased him down,
cornered him in a carpark and demanded an apology. He didn't stop until
he saw I was female though, I imagine if I had been a big strong-looking
fella he would've left campus.

On the other hand, I've had a lot of good drivers who take in the entire
situation, eg you're going down a big curvy hill and can take the
corners faster than them, eg there's barriers to roadworks at the side
of the road so you can't ride in the non-existent bike lane even though
you're crawling up the hill at 25 km/h, and they just calmly wait back
until they can safely pass you.

One thing I'd like cyclists to think about is the difference between
having a right to be on the road and etiquette. For example, if you were
driving your car in the mountains and weren't confident with taking
corners, and a line of 10 cars formed up behind you, you'd probably pull
over once it was safe to, and let them past. This is as much for your
safety (they are less likely to road rage or smash into your bum from
sitting up it so far) as for politeness. Similarly if you are on a
single lane highway where you can only go 90 (eg down south if you're on
your P's) or you want to be good and go at the speed limit but everyone
wants to go 120 there is not much point in trying to stop them and where
possible (like the next overtaking lane) you'll make sure to stay out of
their way and let them pass. It's your right to be driving at a speed
that you see safe for the conditions, right, but you don't need to [censored]
people off more than necessary.

Of course I'm not saying to ride in the gutter. I never have and never
will - and the thing that pisses me off more than anything else is
people who try and overtake you in the same lane - because they wouldn't
do that if there was a 40 km/hr car there, would they, so why with a
bike?

But if you get the opportunity (eg where the road widens) to let some
traffic past you, you make yourself less likely to be the victim of road
rage. It's about being assertive about your road space but not
aggressive.

This of course does not help with the w#$%ers who will hate you
regardless because you stand for everything that is not a gun-toting,
ute-driving redneck or an unfit, prematurely-aging suit.

T.B.

Etxy said:

To add to the horror stories, I was out riding with some fellow juniors
from my club (6 of us in all) when a ute zoomed past us, yelling
something out the window. He then slowed down a hundred metres in front
of us, came to a stop, and forced us to go round the outside of him.

--

______________________________________

Tamyka Bell, PhD Student
School of Human Movement Studies
The University Of Queensland
w: +61-7-33656105
m: +61-4-00782972
e: [email hidden]
______________________________________

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Etxy <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

So is there any reason why cars hate us so much? Many of my rides go
without a hitch, but today I got road-raged to a minor extent twice...
when I can understand why we are so despised, I will achieve
enlightenment. Asking the drivers won't help, because the only answer
they'll give is a monosylabbic grunt.

It's not that difficult.

Cyclists are perceived by a lot of drivers as:

1. Parasites who don't pay their way (no licence fees, registration fees,
compulsory insurance, fuel duties and levies, fines for doing 1kph over the
limit, etc);
2. Slow parasites who get in the way.

But why do they hate us to the point that they'll endager our lives ?
I bloody hate Essendon supporters but I don't try and kill 'em

Drs said:

Cyclists are perceived by a lot of drivers as:
1. Parasites who don't pay their way (no licence fees, registration
fees, compulsory insurance, fuel duties and levies, fines for doing
1kph over the limit, etc);
2. Slow parasites who get in the way.
Said drivers have a sense of entitlement to the roads, that they are
deserving and cyclists undeserving, so when they think (FSVO think) they
will get away with it they will have a go at any cyclist within reach.
It's the same selfish mentality that top-posts.
--
A: Top-posters.
B: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

couple of comments Drs. not sure if it was the jist of your first
point but we pay for our road/path use the same way drivers do. thru
state/govt taxes but mainly thru council rates. As we need/cause far
less repair/maintenance to roads than drivers, we in effect
subsidise them

secondly, your sig re top-posters. hope you werent saying Ms Bell was,
cos all she did was post a reply WITHOUT a quote. I often do too.
Perhaps it looks different in the application you are viewing it in, but
it looks fine in the IE browser I, and presumably many others are too. I
realise this is a thing close to your heart so bear with me here. Is
there a better way for me to do this...

--