Why a high-carb diet can kill...

Katt said:

Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2005;14 Suppl:S120.

High glycemic index carbohydrate mediates an acute proinflammatory
process as measured by NF-kappaB activation.

Dickinson S, Hancock DP, Petocz P, Brand-Miller JC.

School of Molecular and Microbial Biosciences, University of Sydney,
NSW, 2006.

Background - Some high-carbohydrate diets may increase the risk of
cardiovascular disease (CVD) by promoting hyperglycemia, oxidative
stress, endothelial dysfunction and low-grade inflammation. In this
context, the classification of carbohydrates according to their
postprandial effects (ie the glycemic index, GI) may be relevant to
prevention and management of CVD. Objectives - The present study was
designed to detect differences in postprandial NF-kappaB activation (an
acute inflammatory marker) in mononuclear cells and nitrotyrosine
levels (a marker of oxidative stress) after high vs low GI meals in 10
lean, young, healthy European Caucasian subjects (5 male, 5 female)
matched for age, BMI, waist circumference, diet and physical activity.
Design - A 50 g portion of a high GI (white bread) was compared with an
isoenergetic, macronutrient-matched portion of a low GI food (pasta)
consumed in random order after an overnight fast. Glycaemia,
insulinemia, NF-kappaB and nitrotyrosine levels were determined at 0,
60, 120 and 180 min and quantitated using the area under the curve
(AUC). Outcome - Glycemia and insulinemia were within the normal range
but 3- and nearly 4-fold higher respectively after the bread meal
compared with the pasta meal. As hypothesised, the NF-kappaB response
was 3-fold greater after the bread meal (mean +/- SEM: 69 +/- 16
optical density (OD) h) compared with the pasta meal (23 +/- 4.7 OD h).
Nitrotyrosine levels increased after the bread meal (0.67 +/- 0.49
nmoles/L) and decreased after the pasta (-0.81 +/- 0.30 nmoles/L) but
the difference did not reach statistical significance. Conclusion - The
present study shows that high GI carbohydrate, but not low GI
carbohydrate, mediates an acute proinflammatory process as measured by
NF-kappaB activity. Blunting postprandial glycemia via low GI
carbohydrate may lower CVD risk.

May lower risk..so what have we learned here? Nothing

x-no-archive: yes

jt said:

Katt said:

Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2005;14 Suppl:S120.

High glycemic index carbohydrate mediates an acute proinflammatory
process as measured by NF-kappaB activation.

Dickinson S, Hancock DP, Petocz P, Brand-Miller JC.

School of Molecular and Microbial Biosciences, University of Sydney,
NSW, 2006.

Background - Some high-carbohydrate diets may increase the risk of
cardiovascular disease (CVD) by promoting hyperglycemia, oxidative
stress, endothelial dysfunction and low-grade inflammation. In this
context, the classification of carbohydrates according to their
postprandial effects (ie the glycemic index, GI) may be relevant to
prevention and management of CVD. Objectives - The present study was
designed to detect differences in postprandial NF-kappaB activation (an
acute inflammatory marker) in mononuclear cells and nitrotyrosine
levels (a marker of oxidative stress) after high vs low GI meals in 10
lean, young, healthy European Caucasian subjects (5 male, 5 female)
matched for age, BMI, waist circumference, diet and physical activity.
Design - A 50 g portion of a high GI (white bread) was compared with an
isoenergetic, macronutrient-matched portion of a low GI food (pasta)
consumed in random order after an overnight fast. Glycaemia,
insulinemia, NF-kappaB and nitrotyrosine levels were determined at 0,
60, 120 and 180 min and quantitated using the area under the curve
(AUC). Outcome - Glycemia and insulinemia were within the normal range
but 3- and nearly 4-fold higher respectively after the bread meal
compared with the pasta meal. As hypothesised, the NF-kappaB response
was 3-fold greater after the bread meal (mean +/- SEM: 69 +/- 16
optical density (OD) h) compared with the pasta meal (23 +/- 4.7 OD h).
Nitrotyrosine levels increased after the bread meal (0.67 +/- 0.49
nmoles/L) and decreased after the pasta (-0.81 +/- 0.30 nmoles/L) but
the difference did not reach statistical significance. Conclusion - The
present study shows that high GI carbohydrate, but not low GI
carbohydrate, mediates an acute proinflammatory process as measured by
NF-kappaB activity. Blunting postprandial glycemia via low GI
carbohydrate may lower CVD risk.

May lower risk..so what have we learned here? Nothing

On the contrary, there are a zillion studies demonstrating that higher
glycemic load diets promote heart disease, certain cancers, insulin
resistance, diabetes and inflammation.

In human nutrition, there is no essential carbohydrate, only essential
fats and proteins. Not to say that there are no desirable carbs, but
starches aren't among them and heavy reliance on them is unhealthy.

Susan

"Katt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2005;14 Suppl:S120.

High glycemic index carbohydrate mediates an acute proinflammatory
process as measured by NF-kappaB activation.

Dickinson S, Hancock DP, Petocz P, Brand-Miller JC.

School of Molecular and Microbial Biosciences, University of Sydney,
NSW, 2006.

Background - Some high-carbohydrate diets may increase the risk of

Cuting and pasting stuff you know nothing about may also kill!

Low carb diets have their own risk profile.

Low carb diets have their own risk profile. The world is not black
and white. As an example, (healthy) internal organs depicted in
medical textbooks are not representative of ALL (healthy) internal
organs. They come in all shapes and sizes!

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 16:17:58 -0500, Susan <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On the contrary, there are a zillion studies demonstrating that higher
glycemic load diets promote heart disease, certain cancers, insulin
resistance, diabetes and inflammation.

Yes zillions of studies and now another one that shows us what? The
same thing. Whole grains are better than refined flour. It has
already been shown that one can live a long healthy life on a diet
consisting primarily on carbs that are unrefined.

Quoted message said:

In human nutrition, there is no essential carbohydrate, only essential
fats and proteins.

Yes we have already heard this from TC and yes there is no essential
carb as any carb will do but they are needed as a macronutirent and
better that they are healthy carbs than from poptarts.

x-no-archive: yes

jt said:

Yes zillions of studies and now another one that shows us what?

Huh?

The

Quoted message said:

same thing. Whole grains are better than refined flour.

A bit. But veggies are many times better than either type of grain.

It has

Quoted message said:

already been shown that one can live a long healthy life on a diet
consisting primarily on carbs that are unrefined.

No, it hasn't.>

Quoted message said:

Yes we have already heard this from TC and yes there is no essential
carb as any carb will do but they are needed as a macronutirent and
better that they are healthy carbs than from poptarts.

No, they are not needed as a macronutrient. Look up "essential" as it
pertains to human nutrition. Only fat and protein are needed. Carbs,
healthy ones are a nice bonus and if leafy and colorful are nutrient
dense, but they are not "needed."

Done with this silliness.

Susan

Glassman wrote:
|| "Katt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
|| news:[email hidden]...
||| Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. 2005;14 Suppl:S120.
|||
||| High glycemic index carbohydrate mediates an acute proinflammatory
||| process as measured by NF-kappaB activation.
|||
||| Dickinson S, Hancock DP, Petocz P, Brand-Miller JC.
|||
||| School of Molecular and Microbial Biosciences, University of Sydney,
||| NSW, 2006.
|||
||| Background - Some high-carbohydrate diets may increase the risk of
|||
||
|| Cuting and pasting stuff you know nothing about may also kill!

HUH????????

--
Peter
Website: http://users.thelink.net/marengo

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 21:45:07 -0500, Susan <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes we have already heard this from TC and yes there is no essential
carb as any carb will do but they are needed as a macronutirent and
better that they are healthy carbs than from poptarts.

No, they are not needed as a macronutrient. Look up "essential" as it
pertains to human nutrition. Only fat and protein are needed.

Try running a marathon or even 5 miles a day and tell me carbs are not
needed. Either one is not equivalent with what early man needed for
energy.

"jt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Try running a marathon or even 5 miles a day and tell me carbs are not
needed. Either one is not equivalent with what early man needed for
energy.

Humans can adapt readily to do things like running 5 miles on pretty much
any type of diet, including one that is very low in CHO. There is reason for
this, in that some of our ancestors in northern climates would have had to
subsist primarily on game, during cold times of year when fruit was not
available and limited stores of seeds and similar were used up.

This is confirmed by all the low-carbers who are quite able to exercise,
even for long periods of time, on a low-carb diet. This does appear to
require a period of adaptation, however, especially for someone who has been
eating a high-CHO diet for a lifetime. Personally, I found I had better
stamina on a low-CHO diet than on a high-CHO diet. Granted I was doing
moderate-intensity aerobic exercise, but my stamina was definitely enhanced.
In the past there's been some good information posted in both asdl-c and smn
about low-CHO training-based enhancement of the body's abilility to store
and use fatty acids for muscular activity

There's no question that increasing CHO intake can enhance performance for
many, especially for high-intensity anaerobic activities, including repeated
lifting of heavy weights. But an adapted individual can still do quite well
with a relatively low CHO intake.

HG

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jt said:

Yes zillions of studies and now another one that shows us what?

Huh?

Well, Susan, apparently not everyone is interested in seeing yet another
mechanism demonstrated. 8-)

Personally I found the abstract really interesting. There's been a lot of
talk for the last few years about the importance of inflammation in
development of coronary heart disease. The studies coming along that
indicate various ways inflammation occurs are, to my mind, pretty important.
But that's just me.

HG

Hannah Gruen said:

"jt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Try running a marathon or even 5 miles a day and tell me carbs are not
needed. Either one is not equivalent with what early man needed for
energy.

Humans can adapt readily to do things like running 5 miles on pretty much
any type of diet, including one that is very low in CHO.

I said running < 7:00 a mile not jogging.

Quoted message said:

There is reason for this, in that some of our ancestors in northern climates would have had to
subsist primarily on game, during cold times of year when fruit was not
available and limited stores of seeds and similar were used up.

As some here would say man was not "meant" for cold climates.

Quoted message said:

This is confirmed by all the low-carbers who are quite able to exercise,
even for long periods of time, on a low-carb diet. This does appear to
require a period of adaptation, however, especially for someone who has been
eating a high-CHO diet for a lifetime. Personally, I found I had better
stamina on a low-CHO diet than on a high-CHO diet.

Watch an endurance event such as world class bicycle racing and watch
what happens to the athlete when they "hit the wall" or "Bonk" meaning
run out of glycogen stores and the performance falls off a cliff. I
hope you are never in a fight or flight type situation requiring an
anaerobic state because you are done for.

Quoted message said:

Granted I was doing moderate-intensity aerobic exercise,

Gee I would have never guessed. Like I said "running" not jogging or
walking requires carbohydrates.

Quoted message said:

but my stamina was definitely enhanced.

Show me any world-class endurance athlete on the planet with a low or
or no carb diet. LOL!

Quoted message said:

In the past there's been some good information posted in both asdl-c and smn about low-CHO training-based enhancement of the body's abilility to store
and use fatty acids for muscular activity

I am talking real exercise not 50+ master fatties in spandex who look
like a dehydrated raisin walking around with their arms flailing.
Marathoners who eat high carb diets use and burn fat more efficiently
that a sedentary person since even a high carb diet is not enough to
sustain them for the entire event and must burn fat and do below the
anaerobic threshold.

Quoted message said:

There's no question that increasing CHO intake can enhance performance for
many, especially for high-intensity anaerobic activities, including repeated
lifting of heavy weights. But an adapted individual can still do quite well
with a relatively low CHO intake.

Uh huh show me these bodybuilders on low carb diets.

"jt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Try running a marathon or even 5 miles a day and tell me carbs are not
needed. Either one is not equivalent with what early man needed for
energy.

I don't think Susan to TC have the faintest idea. They seem to think if
you sit on your ass and eat low carbs and lose weight you are in
Valhalla. The body needs to survive and thrive sedate through endurance
efforts and any diet that only addresses sitting on your ass, is bogus
BS. Can you imagine taking all the people that run 5k to multiday races
and making them eat low carb? Call 911 now.

Exercise and eat balanced and preferably 60-65 % good carbs. You will
weigh less, look better, feel better and live longer. But then again,
never let facts get in the way of fad diet.

-DF

"Hannah Gruen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:43980a28$0$3494

Quoted message said:

This is confirmed by all the low-carbers who are quite able to
exercise, even for long periods of time, on a low-carb diet.

BS! maybe If your long period of time is a casual stroll and not real
exercise. You count the number of people that finish a marathon under 5
hours on low carbs on one hand and likely in the medical tent for an IV
of sugar. Jump it to an ultra race and it's zero finishers. In fact the
aid stations are carbocentric. We have dozens of human performance labs
that will tell you low-carb is like running an 8 cylinder high
performance car on regular gas or pulling two of the spark plugs. Tell
that to the Kenyans or Lance Armstrong or any person uses his body to
make money or excel. Do you think these people would get to this point
playing low carb. Hell we have world class runner that are vegans. This
adaptation concept is Atkins BS to keep you in the fold. Watch out for
the purple Kool-Aid.

-DF

If you open your eyes you will see that there are people doing LC who
not only run marathons, but speak of the beneficial changes LC has
made to their health. This guy finished the Boston Marathon in the top
10% of his age group.

"http://www.lowcarbcentre.com/securestore/c182557p16268206.2.html

Harv Haakonson

"A couple of years ago, as I approached my 60th Birthday, I decided to
try to stave off old age. To do so, I thought I might train to run in
the Victoria Marathon. I did run it, and in fact just made the
qualifying times to enter the Boston Marathon. I ran the Boston
Marathon in April of 2001. I finished within the top 10% in my age
group and a time of 3:35:28. What is really interesting is that I
trained for a full six months to run the marathon, eating low carb
foods and snacks the whole time. I mention this because many people
think that if you are exercising strenuously, you need to "carb
load". This is no longer the thinking, even among most top trainers.

Now that I understand the low carb mechanism better, and have a more in
depth understanding of which foods are low or high in carbs, I am able
to pace myself and my carb intake very easily. I have lost 37 pounds ­
I am in the best physical condition I have been in since I was a young
military pilot 40 years ago. I eat well. My food has lots of variety
and flavor. I eat 3 meals and 2 or 3 snacks everyday. I no longer doze
off while I try to watch the evening news. Patricia has made a disciple
out of me!

x-no-archive: yes

jt said:

Try running a marathon or even 5 miles a day and tell me carbs are not
needed. Either one is not equivalent with what early man needed for
energy.

Total non sequitir. None essential means the body can furnish the fuel
without the macronutrient.

Sheesh.

Susan

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

x-no-archive: yes

jt said:

Try running a marathon or even 5 miles a day and tell me carbs are not
needed. Either one is not equivalent with what early man needed for
energy.

Total non sequitir. None essential means the body can furnish the fuel
without the macronutrient.

Sheesh.

Susan

Well JT has got a point. A low carb diet is a hypocaloric diet, as evident
from it's effect on people. Any hypocaloric diet will tend to inhibit
performance in certain types of exercise.

This does not prove that LC diets are bad, just that they may not be optimal
for this kind of exercise. A variant of the LC diet is the CKD in which you
have carb loading periods during the LC diet to provide your body with the
calories it need to perform high intensity exercise. It works very well and
it's very sustainable.

You can use calories from protein to replenish glucogen stores, but you have
to eat more than most people can manage, you'd almost have to force feed
yourself. Carbohydrates can provide these calories much easier.

x-no-archive: yes

Joe the Aroma said:

Well JT has got a point. A low carb diet is a hypocaloric diet, as evident
from it's effect on people. Any hypocaloric diet will tend to inhibit
performance in certain types of exercise.

For those maintaining weight, it's not hypocaloric.

Quoted message said:

This does not prove that LC diets are bad, just that they may not be optimal
for this kind of exercise. A variant of the LC diet is the CKD in which you
have carb loading periods during the LC diet to provide your body with the
calories it need to perform high intensity exercise. It works very well and
it's very sustainable.

Yes, or TKD.

Quoted message said:

You can use calories from protein to replenish glucogen stores, but you have
to eat more than most people can manage, you'd almost have to force feed
yourself. Carbohydrates can provide these calories much easier.

So can dextrose during high intensity exercise, without raising blood
glucose.

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Joe the Aroma said:

Well JT has got a point. A low carb diet is a hypocaloric diet, as evident
from it's effect on people. Any hypocaloric diet will tend to inhibit
performance in certain types of exercise.

For those maintaining weight, it's not hypocaloric.

Quoted message said:

This does not prove that LC diets are bad, just that they may not be optimal
for this kind of exercise. A variant of the LC diet is the CKD in which you
have carb loading periods during the LC diet to provide your body with the
calories it need to perform high intensity exercise. It works very well and
it's very sustainable.

Yes, or TKD.

Quoted message said:

You can use calories from protein to replenish glucogen stores, but you have
to eat more than most people can manage, you'd almost have to force feed
yourself. Carbohydrates can provide these calories much easier.

So can dextrose during high intensity exercise, without raising blood
glucose.

Susan