whole grain wheat

TC said:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl

Wheat flour, whole-grain
New Search
NDB No: 20080 Nutrient Units Value per
100 grams of
edible portion Number
of Data
Points Std.
Error
Proximates
Water g 10.27 15 0.453
Energy kcal 339 0 0
Energy kj 1418 0 0
Protein g 13.70 16 0.456
Total lipid (fat) g 1.87 10 0.04
Ash g 1.60 14 0.053
Carbohydrate, by difference g 72.57 0 0
Fiber, total dietary g 12.2 0 0
Sugars, total g 0.41 3 0.03
Minerals
Calcium, Ca mg 34 8 2.484
Iron, Fe mg 3.88 8 0.059
Magnesium, Mg mg 138 6 1.898
Phosphorus, P mg 346 6 3.784
Potassium, K mg 405 7 16.273
Sodium, Na mg 5 7 1.583
Zinc, Zn mg 2.93 11 0.185
Copper, Cu mg 0.382 11 0.024
Manganese, Mn mg 3.799 10 0.309
Selenium, Se mcg 70.7 3 8.175
Vitamins
Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid mg 0.0 0 0
Thiamin mg 0.447 20 0.018
Riboflavin mg 0.215 20 0.013
Niacin mg 6.365 8 0.263
Pantothenic acid mg 1.008 2 0
Vitamin B-6 mg 0.341 3 0.019
Folate, total mcg 44 7 4.194
Folic acid mcg 0 0 0
Folate, food mcg 44 7 4.194
Folate, DFE mcg_DFE 44 0 0
Vitamin B-12 mcg 0.00 0 0
Vitamin A, IU IU 9 0 0
Vitamin A, RAE mcg_RAE 0 0 0
Retinol mcg 0 0 0
Vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol) mg 0.82 1 0
Vitamin K (phylloquinone) mcg 1.9 2 0
Lipids
Fatty acids, total saturated g 0.322 0 0
4:0 g 0.000 0 0
6:0 g 0.000 0 0
8:0 g 0.018 0 0
10:0 g 0.000 0 0
12:0 g 0.000 0 0
14:0 g 0.003 0 0
16:0 g 0.271 0 0
18:0 g 0.015 0 0
Fatty acids, total monounsaturated g 0.232 0 0
16:1 undifferentiated g 0.013 0 0
18:1 undifferentiated g 0.219 0 0
20:1 g 0.000 0 0
22:1 undifferentiated g 0.000 0 0
Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated g 0.779 0 0
18:2 undifferentiated g 0.738 0 0
18:3 undifferentiated g 0.038 0 0
18:4 g 0.000 0 0
20:4 undifferentiated g 0.002 0 0
20:5 n-3 g 0.000 0 0
22:5 n-3 g 0.000 0 0
22:6 n-3 g 0.000 0 0
Cholesterol mg 0 0 0
Amino acids
Tryptophan g 0.212 12 0
Threonine g 0.395 25 0
Isoleucine g 0.508 25 0
Leucine g 0.926 25 0
Lysine g 0.378 26 0
Methionine g 0.212 26 0
Cystine g 0.317 20 0
Phenylalanine g 0.646 25 0
Tyrosine g 0.400 24 0
Valine g 0.618 25 0
Arginine g 0.642 26 0
Histidine g 0.317 26 0
Alanine g 0.487 24 0
Aspartic acid g 0.703 25 0
Glutamic acid g 4.325 24 0
Glycine g 0.552 23 0
Proline g 1.422 23 0
Serine g 0.646 23 0
Other
Alcohol, ethyl g 0.0 0 0
Caffeine mg 0 0 0
Theobromine mg 0 0 0
Carotene, beta mcg 5 1 0
Carotene, alpha mcg 0 0 0
Cryptoxanthin, beta mcg 0 0 0
Lycopene mcg 0 0 0
Lutein + zeaxanthin mcg 220 1 0

----

The above may be hard to read but whole grain wheat contains:

zero vitamin C
zero Vitamin A, RAE
zero Retinol
zero Vitamin B-12

a whopping 72.57 grams of carbohydrate per 100 grams

For the so-called "staff of life" it is missing some very important
nutrients. And this is whole grain wheat, refined white flour is
virtually bereft of any nutrienst useful to humans.

TC

Here is the nutritional content (bwahh haaa haaaaaa) of mac and cheese:

HODGSON MILL, Whole Wheat Macaroni and Cheese Dinner, dry mix
New Search
NDB No: 22701 Nutrient Units Value per
100 grams of
edible portion Number
of Data
Points Std.
Error 1.00 X 1 package
-------
206g
Proximates
Water g 8.50 1 0 17.51
Energy kcal 376 0 0 775
Energy kj 1571 0 0 3236
Protein g 14.10 1 0 29.05
Total lipid (fat) g 4.70 1 0 9.68
Ash g 3.50 1 0 7.21
Carbohydrate, by difference g 69.20 0 0 142.55
Fiber, total dietary g 7.6 1 0 15.7
Minerals
Calcium, Ca mg 114 1 0 235
Iron, Fe mg 2.62 1 0 5.40
Sodium, Na mg 611 1 0 1259
Vitamins
Lipids
Fatty acids, total saturated g 1.370 1 0 2.822
Cholesterol mg 8 1 0 16

---

This is from

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

I know it is hard to read but basically there is no nutrition in mac
and cheese.

TC

On 7 Jun 2005 12:19:07 -0700, TC wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

The above may be hard to read but whole grain wheat contains:

zero vitamin C
zero Vitamin A, RAE
zero Retinol
zero Vitamin B-12

Who would look for those vitamins in any grains?

--
Enrico C

Enrico C said:

On 7 Jun 2005 12:19:07 -0700, TC wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

The above may be hard to read but whole grain wheat contains:

zero vitamin C
zero Vitamin A, RAE
zero Retinol
zero Vitamin B-12

Who would look for those vitamins in any grains?

--
Enrico C

Exactly, you wouldn't. If you are looking for foods that are full of
nutrition, wheat ain't it, regardless of what the USDA's food pyramid
says about wheat and grains.

TC

On 7 Jun 2005 13:26:28 -0700, TC wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Enrico C said:

On 7 Jun 2005 12:19:07 -0700, TC wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

The above may be hard to read but whole grain wheat contains:

zero vitamin C
zero Vitamin A, RAE
zero Retinol
zero Vitamin B-12

Who would look for those vitamins in any grains?

--
Enrico C

Exactly, you wouldn't. If you are looking for foods that are full of
nutrition, wheat ain't it, regardless of what the USDA's food pyramid
says about wheat and grains.

TC

Let's see...

http://www.mypyramid.gov/pyramid/grains_why.html

"Why is it important to eat grains, especially whole grains?"

Eating grains, especially whole grains, provides health benefits. People
who eat whole grains as part of a healthy diet have a reduced risk of some
chronic diseases. Grains provide many nutrients that are vital for the
health and maintenance of our bodies.

Health benefits

* Consuming foods rich in fiber, such as whole grains, as part of a
healthy diet, reduces the risk of coronary heart disease.
* Consuming foods rich in fiber, such as whole grains, as part of a
healthy diet, may reduce constipation.
* Eating at least 3 ounce equivalents a day of whole grains may help
with weight management.
* Eating grains fortified with folate before and during pregnancy helps
prevent neural tube defects during fetal development.
* Click here for more information about preventing cardiovascular
disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, and cancer.

Nutrients

Food sources of the nutrients in bold can be found in the Dietary
Guidelines for Americans. Click on the nutrient name to link to the food
sources table.

* Grains are important sources of many nutrients, including dietary
fiber, several B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and folate), and
minerals (iron, magnesium, and selenium).
* Dietary fiber from whole grains, as part of an overall healthy diet,
helps reduce blood cholesterol levels and may lower risk of heart disease.
Fiber is important for proper bowel function. It helps reduce constipation
and diverticulosis. Fiber-containing foods such as whole grains help
provide a feeling of fullness with fewer calories. Whole grains are good
sources of dietary fiber; most refined (processed) grains contain little
fiber.
* B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and folate)play a key role
in metabolism - they help the body release energy from protein, fat, and
carbohydrates. B vitamins are also essential for a healthy nervous system.
Many refined grains are enriched with these B vitamins.
* Folate (folic acid), another B vitamin, helps the body form red blood
cells. Women of childbearing age who may become pregnant and those in the
first trimester of pregnancy should consume adequate folate, including
folic acid from fortified foods or supplements. This reduces the risk of
neural tube defects, spina bifida, and anencephaly during fetal
development.
* Iron is used to carry oxygen in the blood. Many teenage girls and
women in their childbearing years have iron-deficiency anemia. They should
eat foods high in heme-iron (meats) or eat other iron containing foods
along with foods rich in vitamin C, which can improve absorption of
non-heme iron. Whole and enriched refined grain products are major sources
of non-heme iron in American diets.
* Whole grains are sources of magnesium and selenium. Magnesium is a
mineral used in building bones and releasing energy from muscles. Selenium
protects cells from oxidation. It is also important for a healthy immune
system.

===

Oh that's why as our bread consumption goes up the chance of a heart attack
or a stroke does too.

"Enrico C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 7 Jun 2005 13:26:28 -0700, TC wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Health benefits

* Consuming foods rich in fiber, such as whole grains, as part of a
healthy diet, reduces the risk of coronary heart disease.
* Consuming foods rich in fiber, such as whole grains, as part of a
healthy diet, may reduce constipation.
* Eating at least 3 ounce equivalents a day of whole grains may help
with weight management.
* Eating grains fortified with folate before and during pregnancy

helps

Quoted message said:

prevent neural tube defects during fetal development.
* Click here for more information about preventing cardiovascular
disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, and cancer.

Nutrients

Food sources of the nutrients in bold can be found in the Dietary
Guidelines for Americans. Click on the nutrient name to link to the food
sources table.

* Grains are important sources of many nutrients, including dietary
fiber, several B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and folate), and
minerals (iron, magnesium, and selenium).
* Dietary fiber from whole grains, as part of an overall healthy diet,
helps reduce blood cholesterol levels and may lower risk of heart disease.
Fiber is important for proper bowel function. It helps reduce constipation
and diverticulosis. Fiber-containing foods such as whole grains help
provide a feeling of fullness with fewer calories. Whole grains are good
sources of dietary fiber; most refined (processed) grains contain little
fiber.
* B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and folate)play a key role
in metabolism - they help the body release energy from protein, fat, and
carbohydrates. B vitamins are also essential for a healthy nervous system.
Many refined grains are enriched with these B vitamins.
* Folate (folic acid), another B vitamin, helps the body form red

blood

Quoted message said:

cells. Women of childbearing age who may become pregnant and those in the
first trimester of pregnancy should consume adequate folate, including
folic acid from fortified foods or supplements. This reduces the risk of
neural tube defects, spina bifida, and anencephaly during fetal
development.
* Iron is used to carry oxygen in the blood. Many teenage girls and
women in their childbearing years have iron-deficiency anemia. They should
eat foods high in heme-iron (meats) or eat other iron containing foods
along with foods rich in vitamin C, which can improve absorption of
non-heme iron. Whole and enriched refined grain products are major sources
of non-heme iron in American diets.
* Whole grains are sources of magnesium and selenium. Magnesium is a
mineral used in building bones and releasing energy from muscles. Selenium
protects cells from oxidation. It is also important for a healthy immune
system.

===

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:08:17 -0400, Pizza Girl wrote in
<news:1118185461.f68bfb465ef7d9e268929877b64967ef@teranews> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Oh that's why as our bread consumption goes up the chance of a heart attack
or a stroke does too.

1970-2000: total daily calories +24.5% (+530 calories)

--
Enrico C

Enrico C said:

On 7 Jun 2005 13:26:28 -0700, TC wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Enrico C said:

On 7 Jun 2005 12:19:07 -0700, TC wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

> The above may be hard to read but whole grain wheat contains:
>
> zero vitamin C
> zero Vitamin A, RAE
> zero Retinol
> zero Vitamin B-12

Who would look for those vitamins in any grains?

--
Enrico C

Exactly, you wouldn't. If you are looking for foods that are full of
nutrition, wheat ain't it, regardless of what the USDA's food pyramid
says about wheat and grains.

TC

Let's see...

http://www.mypyramid.gov/pyramid/grains_why.html

"Why is it important to eat grains, especially whole grains?"

Eating grains, especially whole grains, provides health benefits. People
who eat whole grains as part of a healthy diet have a reduced risk of some
chronic diseases. Grains provide many nutrients that are vital for the
health and maintenance of our bodies.

Talk about twisting the truth. Eating whole grains only provides
"health benefits" when compared to people who eat refined grain and
refined sugar [censored]. Grains provide some small amounts of these vital
nutrients. And refined grains are virtually bereft of these nutrients
except for the few cheap ones the add for "enrichment".

Quoted message said:

Health benefits

* Consuming foods rich in fiber, such as whole grains, as part of a
healthy diet, reduces the risk of coronary heart disease.

What is wrong, then, with consuming a better quality fibre from a
better quality food, like fruits and vegetables. Grain fibre is harsh
and abrasive to the GI tract. There is plenty of available high fibre
food without needing grain fibre.

Quoted message said:

* Consuming foods rich in fiber, such as whole grains, as part of a
healthy diet, may reduce constipation.

see above. And grains causes all kinds of problems with the GI tract
such as IBS, Crohn's, etc.

Quoted message said:

* Eating at least 3 ounce equivalents a day of whole grains may help
with weight management.

And not eating any grains will not have any deleterious effect on
health or on weight.

Quoted message said:

* Eating grains fortified with folate before and during pregnancy helps
prevent neural tube defects during fetal development.

And eating other foods with naturally occurring folate and/or folic
acid will be better. It is always better to get the real thing from
real food rather than the artificially added folate.

Quoted message said:

* Click here for more information about preventing cardiovascular
disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, and cancer.

Nutrients

Food sources of the nutrients in bold can be found in the Dietary
Guidelines for Americans. Click on the nutrient name to link to the food
sources table.

* Grains are important sources of many nutrients, including dietary
fiber, several B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and folate), and
minerals (iron, magnesium, and selenium).

They are relatively poor sources of these nutrients to begin with. Then
they lose the vitamins in storage and handling and the berries are not
soaked to enable us to absorb these vitamins properly. And grains
contain phyto-toxins that are not neutralized properly before we
consume them.

Quoted message said:

* Dietary fiber from whole grains, as part of an overall healthy diet,
helps reduce blood cholesterol levels and may lower risk of heart disease.
Fiber is important for proper bowel function. It helps reduce constipation
and diverticulosis. Fiber-containing foods such as whole grains help
provide a feeling of fullness with fewer calories. Whole grains are good
sources of dietary fiber; most refined (processed) grains contain little
fiber.

Better fibre is available from veggies and fruit.

Quoted message said:

* B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and folate)play a key role
in metabolism - they help the body release energy from protein, fat, and
carbohydrates. B vitamins are also essential for a healthy nervous system.
Many refined grains are enriched with these B vitamins.

Quoted message said:

* Folate (folic acid), another B vitamin, helps the body form red blood
cells. Women of childbearing age who may become pregnant and those in the
first trimester of pregnancy should consume adequate folate, including
folic acid from fortified foods or supplements. This reduces the risk of
neural tube defects, spina bifida, and anencephaly during fetal
development.
* Iron is used to carry oxygen in the blood. Many teenage girls and
women in their childbearing years have iron-deficiency anemia. They should
eat foods high in heme-iron (meats) or eat other iron containing foods
along with foods rich in vitamin C, which can improve absorption of
non-heme iron. Whole and enriched refined grain products are major sources
of non-heme iron in American diets.
* Whole grains are sources of magnesium and selenium. Magnesium is a
mineral used in building bones and releasing energy from muscles. Selenium
protects cells from oxidation. It is also important for a healthy immune
system.

===

Grains are a poor food for human consumption. They are fine to some
degree for cattle and birds. But, for human consumption, they are
ridiculously lacking in nutrition. The more grains in the diet the
worse our health will be.

TC

Pizza Girl said:

shhhhhhh. The minions still consume grains. They don't know better This
leaves the good [censored] for us.

General Mills and Admirable Veggie

That is actually a very good point.

TC

shhhhhhh. The minions still consume grains. They don't know better This
leaves the good [censored] for us.

General Mills and Admirable Veggie

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Enrico C said:

On 7 Jun 2005 13:26:28 -0700, TC wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Enrico C wrote:
> On 7 Jun 2005 12:19:07 -0700, TC wrote in
> <news:[email hidden]> on
> sci.med.nutrition :
>
>> The above may be hard to read but whole grain wheat contains:
>>
>> zero vitamin C
>> zero Vitamin A, RAE
>> zero Retinol
>> zero Vitamin B-12
>
> Who would look for those vitamins in any grains?
>
>
> --
> Enrico C

Exactly, you wouldn't. If you are looking for foods that are full of
nutrition, wheat ain't it, regardless of what the USDA's food pyramid
says about wheat and grains.

TC

Let's see...

http://www.mypyramid.gov/pyramid/grains_why.html

"Why is it important to eat grains, especially whole grains?"

Eating grains, especially whole grains, provides health benefits. People
who eat whole grains as part of a healthy diet have a reduced risk of

some

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

chronic diseases. Grains provide many nutrients that are vital for the
health and maintenance of our bodies.

Talk about twisting the truth. Eating whole grains only provides
"health benefits" when compared to people who eat refined grain and
refined sugar [censored]. Grains provide some small amounts of these vital
nutrients. And refined grains are virtually bereft of these nutrients
except for the few cheap ones the add for "enrichment".

Quoted message said:

Health benefits

* Consuming foods rich in fiber, such as whole grains, as part of a
healthy diet, reduces the risk of coronary heart disease.

What is wrong, then, with consuming a better quality fibre from a
better quality food, like fruits and vegetables. Grain fibre is harsh
and abrasive to the GI tract. There is plenty of available high fibre
food without needing grain fibre.

Quoted message said:

* Consuming foods rich in fiber, such as whole grains, as part of a
healthy diet, may reduce constipation.

see above. And grains causes all kinds of problems with the GI tract
such as IBS, Crohn's, etc.

Quoted message said:

* Eating at least 3 ounce equivalents a day of whole grains may help
with weight management.

And not eating any grains will not have any deleterious effect on
health or on weight.

Quoted message said:

* Eating grains fortified with folate before and during pregnancy

helps

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

prevent neural tube defects during fetal development.

And eating other foods with naturally occurring folate and/or folic
acid will be better. It is always better to get the real thing from
real food rather than the artificially added folate.

Quoted message said:

* Click here for more information about preventing cardiovascular
disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, and cancer.

Nutrients

Food sources of the nutrients in bold can be found in the Dietary
Guidelines for Americans. Click on the nutrient name to link to the food
sources table.

* Grains are important sources of many nutrients, including dietary
fiber, several B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and folate), and
minerals (iron, magnesium, and selenium).

They are relatively poor sources of these nutrients to begin with. Then
they lose the vitamins in storage and handling and the berries are not
soaked to enable us to absorb these vitamins properly. And grains
contain phyto-toxins that are not neutralized properly before we
consume them.

Quoted message said:

* Dietary fiber from whole grains, as part of an overall healthy

diet,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

helps reduce blood cholesterol levels and may lower risk of heart

disease.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Fiber is important for proper bowel function. It helps reduce

constipation

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and diverticulosis. Fiber-containing foods such as whole grains help
provide a feeling of fullness with fewer calories. Whole grains are good
sources of dietary fiber; most refined (processed) grains contain little
fiber.

Better fibre is available from veggies and fruit.

Quoted message said:

* B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and folate)play a key

role

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in metabolism - they help the body release energy from protein, fat, and
carbohydrates. B vitamins are also essential for a healthy nervous

system.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Many refined grains are enriched with these B vitamins.

Quoted message said:

* Folate (folic acid), another B vitamin, helps the body form red

blood

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cells. Women of childbearing age who may become pregnant and those in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

first trimester of pregnancy should consume adequate folate, including
folic acid from fortified foods or supplements. This reduces the risk of
neural tube defects, spina bifida, and anencephaly during fetal
development.
* Iron is used to carry oxygen in the blood. Many teenage girls and
women in their childbearing years have iron-deficiency anemia. They

should

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

eat foods high in heme-iron (meats) or eat other iron containing foods
along with foods rich in vitamin C, which can improve absorption of
non-heme iron. Whole and enriched refined grain products are major

sources

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of non-heme iron in American diets.
* Whole grains are sources of magnesium and selenium. Magnesium is a
mineral used in building bones and releasing energy from muscles.

Selenium

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

protects cells from oxidation. It is also important for a healthy immune
system.

===

Grains are a poor food for human consumption. They are fine to some
degree for cattle and birds. But, for human consumption, they are
ridiculously lacking in nutrition. The more grains in the diet the
worse our health will be.

TC

It just goes against my grain! hmmm... wouldn't that be a good thing
then?

"TC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pizza Girl said:

shhhhhhh. The minions still consume grains. They don't know better This
leaves the good [censored] for us.

General Mills and Admirable Veggie

That is actually a very good point.

TC

On 8 Jun 2005 07:20:27 -0700, TC wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Enrico C said:

On 7 Jun 2005 13:26:28 -0700, TC wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Enrico C wrote:
> On 7 Jun 2005 12:19:07 -0700, TC wrote in
> <news:[email hidden]> on
> sci.med.nutrition :
>
>> The above may be hard to read but whole grain wheat contains:
>>
>> zero vitamin C
>> zero Vitamin A, RAE
>> zero Retinol
>> zero Vitamin B-12
>
> Who would look for those vitamins in any grains?
>
>
> --
> Enrico C

Exactly, you wouldn't. If you are looking for foods that are full of
nutrition, wheat ain't it, regardless of what the USDA's food pyramid
says about wheat and grains.

TC

Let's see...

http://www.mypyramid.gov/pyramid/grains_why.html

"Why is it important to eat grains, especially whole grains?"

Eating grains, especially whole grains, provides health benefits. People
who eat whole grains as part of a healthy diet have a reduced risk of some
chronic diseases. Grains provide many nutrients that are vital for the
health and maintenance of our bodies.

Talk about twisting the truth. Eating whole grains only provides
"health benefits" when compared to people who eat refined grain and
refined sugar [censored].

I don't know whether those benefits apply "only compared to...".

Anyway, most people in the world *do* eat grains and sugars, so whole
grains would provide benefits to all them, at least.

Quoted message said:

Grains provide some small amounts of these vital
nutrients. And refined grains are virtually bereft of these nutrients
except for the few cheap ones the add for "enrichment".

That's a reason for eating *whole* grains.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Health benefits

* Consuming foods rich in fiber, such as whole grains, as part of a
healthy diet, reduces the risk of coronary heart disease.

What is wrong, then, with consuming a better quality fibre from a
better quality food, like fruits and vegetables. Grain fibre is harsh and
abrasive to the GI tract. There is plenty of available high fibre
food without needing grain fibre.

Nothing wrong with fruits and vegetables, at all!
I believe people should eat more fruits and vegetables (and less grains and
sugars) than they usually do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* Consuming foods rich in fiber, such as whole grains, as part of a
healthy diet, may reduce constipation.

see above. And grains causes all kinds of problems with the GI tract
such as IBS, Crohn's, etc.

Well, if grains cause you problems, just don't eat them.
The same could be said about milk or meat or beans... Some people have
problems with them, many others don't.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* Eating at least 3 ounce equivalents a day of whole grains may help
with weight management.

And not eating any grains will not have any deleterious effect on
health or on weight.

Actually I don't think there is a single food a human being cannot live
without, as long as they balances their diet with other foods.

If I were forced to choose only a few foods and give up the rest, I think I
would keep fruits and vegetables, milk, fish and olive oil.
Fortunately, I am not forced to choose! 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* Eating grains fortified with folate before and during pregnancy helps
prevent neural tube defects during fetal development.

And eating other foods with naturally occurring folate and/or folic
acid will be better. It is always better to get the real thing from
real food rather than the artificially added folate.

I don't know much about folate, but I strongly agree with you on the point,
generally speaking: better to get the real thing from real food, if you
can.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* Click here for more information about preventing cardiovascular
disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, and cancer.

Nutrients

Food sources of the nutrients in bold can be found in the Dietary
Guidelines for Americans. Click on the nutrient name to link to the food
sources table.

* Grains are important sources of many nutrients, including dietary
fiber, several B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and folate), and
minerals (iron, magnesium, and selenium).

They are relatively poor sources of these nutrients to begin with.

Hmmm... it seems to me that bran is a good source of niacin and
magnesium, and germ of thiamin, for example; and grains of fiber in
general; and so on...

Quoted message said:

Then
they lose the vitamins in storage and handling and the berries are not
soaked to enable us to absorb these vitamins properly.

Would you expand on that? 🙂

Quoted message said:

And grains
contain phyto-toxins that are not neutralized properly before we
consume them.

Aren't they, through leavening and cooking?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* Dietary fiber from whole grains, as part of an overall healthy diet,
helps reduce blood cholesterol levels and may lower risk of heart disease.
Fiber is important for proper bowel function. It helps reduce constipation
and diverticulosis. Fiber-containing foods such as whole grains help
provide a feeling of fullness with fewer calories. Whole grains are good
sources of dietary fiber; most refined (processed) grains contain little
fiber.

Better fibre is available from veggies and fruit.

Well, I don't know which fiber is better, but I don't think one has to
choose one or the other, if one can have both.
Generally speaking, the more foods to choose from, the better!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* B vitamins (thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and folate)play a key role
in metabolism - they help the body release energy from protein, fat, and
carbohydrates. B vitamins are also essential for a healthy nervous system.
Many refined grains are enriched with these B vitamins.

Quoted message said:

* Folate (folic acid), another B vitamin, helps the body form red blood
cells. Women of childbearing age who may become pregnant and those in the
first trimester of pregnancy should consume adequate folate, including
folic acid from fortified foods or supplements. This reduces the risk of
neural tube defects, spina bifida, and anencephaly during fetal
development.
* Iron is used to carry oxygen in the blood. Many teenage girls and
women in their childbearing years have iron-deficiency anemia. They should
eat foods high in heme-iron (meats) or eat other iron containing foods
along with foods rich in vitamin C, which can improve absorption of
non-heme iron. Whole and enriched refined grain products are major sources
of non-heme iron in American diets.
* Whole grains are sources of magnesium and selenium. Magnesium is a
mineral used in building bones and releasing energy from muscles. Selenium
protects cells from oxidation. It is also important for a healthy immune
system.

===

Grains are a poor food for human consumption. They are fine to some
degree for cattle and birds. But, for human consumption, they are
ridiculously lacking in nutrition. The more grains in the diet the
worse our health will be.

"The more grains" you mean overindulgence? In that case I would agree.
On the other hand, the same could be said for meat or cheese or virtually
anything: too much is too much.
If you mean that any quantity of grains is harmful, instead, I strongly
doubt that. Eat everything, don't eat too much of anything! 🙂

--
Enrico C

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For the so-called "staff of life" it is missing some very important

nutrients. And this is whole grain wheat, refined white flour is
virtually bereft of any nutrienst useful to humans. <<

COMMENT:

As is white rice and white rice flour. This does not prevent the
Japanese from having the world's best life expectancies, as they mix
all that white rice with a bunch of other stuff, whenever they eat it.

Why this same principle should not work as well with white wheat flour
is not obvious. Probably it does, as you point out for the
Mediterraneans. I think the overall epidemiology suggests that it
hardly matters what carbohydrate you use, so long as you consume it
adequate with protein and fat. And that your overal diet has enough
vitamins (which can be from other sources entirely), minerals, and
adequate w-3 and w-6 EFAs.

SBH

Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For the so-called "staff of life" it is missing some very important

nutrients. And this is whole grain wheat, refined white flour is
virtually bereft of any nutrienst useful to humans. <<

COMMENT:

As is white rice and white rice flour. This does not prevent the
Japanese from having the world's best life expectancies, as they mix
all that white rice with a bunch of other stuff, whenever they eat it.

Why this same principle should not work as well with white wheat flour
is not obvious. Probably it does, as you point out for the
Mediterraneans. I think the overall epidemiology suggests that it
hardly matters what carbohydrate you use, so long as you consume it
adequate with protein and fat. And that your overal diet has enough
vitamins (which can be from other sources entirely), minerals, and
adequate w-3 and w-6 EFAs.

SBH

The difference is the sheer amount of refined carbs. It is also the
amount of fat in the diet.

The mediterraneans and the japanese do not eat huge amounts of sugars.
They eat moderate amounts of pasta and/or rice. They eat a lot of fresh
whole-food foods with minimal processing. They eat entirely adequate
amounts of healthy fats (fish fats, olive oil, etc). The live closer to
the soil with little extra food processing other than just cooking the
fresh foods. These foods are filling and full of real nutrition.

As opposed to the western diet with lots of sugar (super sized sodas,
high fructose corn syrup added to everything), plenty of pasta (mac and
cheese, huge plates of pasta) and/or rice and/or starchy tubers (french
fries with every second meal) and less healthy fats
(margarine,shortening). And a lot of what they eat is highly processed.
This food is appetite-stimulating and empty of real nutrition.

It is those darned food paradoxes at work again. Western people eat
lots of carbs and less fat and end up gaining weight and getting sicker
which is the exact opposite of what is supposed to happen, according to
the experts. While the mediterraneans and japanese eat less overall
carbs and better carbs and more healthy fat and they are less obese and
much healthier.

TC

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The mediterraneans and the japanese do not eat huge amounts of sugars.

They eat moderate amounts of pasta and/or rice. They eat a lot of fresh

whole-food foods with minimal processing. They eat entirely adequate
amounts of healthy fats (fish fats, olive oil, etc). The live closer to

the soil with little extra food processing other than just cooking the
fresh foods. These foods are filling and full of real nutrition. <<

COMMENT

I don't know where the hell you get these ideas, but it's not from
being in the Mediterranean.

The sweetest breakfast I ever had was as a houseguest on the island of
Majorca IN the Mediterranean, where my hosts ate a collection of the
lightest, thinnest pastries you ever saw, for breakfast. With juice.
Nor were they the oily sweet pastries of the Greeks. There were just
plain honey glaze and flour, so far as I could tell. This was not
tourist stuff, but what they ate every day. Other meals did indeed
include a lot of seafood (little fried octupi and lots of shrimp) but
as for "processing," I have no idea what you mean. Food that is cut up
and cooked and fried with spices and other stuff is "processed."

On the continent, the breakfasts tend to center about pastry (that's
why this is called a "continental breakfast" don't you know). The idea
that continental pastry is somehow a lot different than what you get in
the US, is [censored].

The lowest carb breakfasts I've ever had while traveling came in
England and Scotland, where the standard fare at bed and breakfasts is
bacon, eggs, butter, clotted cream, and maybe fruit or shortbread.
Served by widows of men who'd probably been killed by similar
breakfasts. This is heart disease country. There's no particular "food
paradox" when it comes to the first meal of the day, unless you think
high glucose load meals cause vascular disease. Then there is.

SBH

On 9 Jun 2005 10:54:22 -0700, Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Nor were they the oily sweet pastries of the Greeks. There were just
plain honey glaze and flour, so far as I could tell. This was not

<...>

I think the more you go South (in the Mediterrean region), the more people
like sweet pastries (and spicy foods, btw)!

Sicilian pastries are sweet. And North African pastries (that I buy in
cous-cous restaurants) are pretty sweet too.

http://cp.settlement.org/english/algeria/eating.html
"Algerians enjoy a variety of pastries. They include kalb-el-louz (semolina
with almond paste and rose water), makroud (made with figs or dates),
chacab (crescent-shaped almond-filled pastries), samsa (pastry filled with
sweets), griouche (honey-filled pastry) and tamina (roasted semolina with
butter and honey)."

--
Enrico C

Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The mediterraneans and the japanese do not eat huge amounts of sugars.

They eat moderate amounts of pasta and/or rice. They eat a lot of fresh

whole-food foods with minimal processing. They eat entirely adequate
amounts of healthy fats (fish fats, olive oil, etc). The live closer to

the soil with little extra food processing other than just cooking the
fresh foods. These foods are filling and full of real nutrition. <<

COMMENT

I don't know where the hell you get these ideas, but it's not from
being in the Mediterranean.

The sweetest breakfast I ever had was as a houseguest on the island of
Majorca IN the Mediterranean, where my hosts ate a collection of the
lightest, thinnest pastries you ever saw, for breakfast. With juice.
Nor were they the oily sweet pastries of the Greeks. There were just
plain honey glaze and flour, so far as I could tell. This was not
tourist stuff, but what they ate every day.

You mean they ate that when they had you for a guest. You have no idea
if that was a typical breakfast.

Other meals did indeed

Quoted message said:

include a lot of seafood (little fried octupi and lots of shrimp) but
as for "processing," I have no idea what you mean. Food that is cut up
and cooked and fried with spices and other stuff is "processed."

By processed I mean in a can, in a box or in any way changed from its
original whole-food form before you even buy it.

By fresh I mean a food that is recognizable in the form it was grown,
whether produce or animal at the time it was bought.

Quoted message said:

On the continent, the breakfasts tend to center about pastry (that's
why this is called a "continental breakfast" don't you know). The idea
that continental pastry is somehow a lot different than what you get in
the US, is [censored].

Again, cheap tourist [censored] "continental" breakfasts. There is a
difference between foods aimed at tourist demand and food eaten by a
typical european.

I've had pastries and goodies from the continent and they were not
nearly as sweet as typical american stuff. That is not to say that
sweet european pastries don't exist. What I am saying is that generally
speaking european goodies are not nearly as sweet as american goodies.

Quoted message said:

The lowest carb breakfasts I've ever had while traveling came in
England and Scotland, where the standard fare at bed and breakfasts is
bacon, eggs, butter, clotted cream, and maybe fruit or shortbread.
Served by widows of men who'd probably been killed by similar
breakfasts. This is heart disease country. There's no particular "food
paradox" when it comes to the first meal of the day, unless you think
high glucose load meals cause vascular disease. Then there is.

SBH

High glucose meals causes vascular disease. By direct damage from high
blood glucose levels, and the chronic depletion of vitamins,
specifically the B vitamins and vitamin c, which are essential to
vascular health.

Fresh healthy fats from healthy animals are not the cause of heart
disease. And elevated blood cholesterol levels or excess cholesterol in
the diet are irrelevant to vascular disease.

Heart disease country is in India among the vegetarian Hindus who have
triple the incidence of heart disease of their meat eating neighbors,
the Indian Muslim. This is referred to as the Indian Paradox.

TC

"The above may be hard to read but whole grain wheat contains:

zero vitamin C
zero Vitamin A, RAE
zero Retinol
zero Vitamin B-12

a whopping 72.57 grams of carbohydrate per 100 grams

For the so-called "staff of life" it is missing some very important
nutrients. And this is whole grain wheat, refined white flour is
virtually bereft of any nutrienst useful to humans."

Take a good beef steak, what vital nutrients is it missing? The implied
idea of "nutrients" is misleading, it is full of nutrients. Carbohydrates
are nutrients and glucose into which it is broken is the most basic and
required source for human metabolism, the body also breaks down fat and
protein into glucose and similar sugars when required also because sugars
are the fuel of life. Carbohydrates also includes fibers which support
good health and proper gut function and wheat bran which is not digested
in large part. That almost 30 percent not so covered is proteins and fat
and various other nutrients as were listed.

On 09 Jun 2005 21:32:39 GMT, [email hidden] wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"The above may be hard to read but whole grain wheat contains:

zero vitamin C
zero Vitamin A, RAE
zero Retinol
zero Vitamin B-12

a whopping 72.57 grams of carbohydrate per 100 grams

For the so-called "staff of life" it is missing some very important
nutrients. And this is whole grain wheat, refined white flour is
virtually bereft of any nutrienst useful to humans."

Quoted message said:

Take a good beef steak, what vital nutrients is it missing? The implied
idea of "nutrients" is misleading, it is full of nutrients. Carbohydrates
are nutrients and glucose into which it is broken is the most basic and
required source for human metabolism, the body also breaks down fat and
protein into glucose and similar sugars when required also because sugars
are the fuel of life.

Are there issues related to the fact of breaking down fat into glucose, in
order to get energy from fat instead of carbohydrate, in hi-fat lo-carb
diets?

Quoted message said:

Carbohydrates also includes fibers which support
good health and proper gut function and wheat bran which is not digested
in large part. That almost 30 percent not so covered is proteins and fat
and various other nutrients as were listed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

High glucose meals causes vascular disease. By direct damage from high

blood glucose levels, and the chronic depletion of vitamins,
specifically the B vitamins and vitamin c, which are essential to
vascular health. <<

COMMENT

I suppose that would explain the many animal models of atherosclerosis
caused by giving the animals high blood sugars chronically (aka
diabetic or streptozotocin treated rats). Not.

It DOESN'T work. You can give rats or rabbits or dogs or monkeys
atherosclerosis by modifying their dietary fat and cholesterol. If
there's any model where this has been done to these animals by screwing
around with their dietary glucose loads and dietary carbs, please
enlighten us. Yes, elevated blood sugars surely contribute to the
human problem in frank diabetics. But most human vascular disease
doesn't occur in frank diabetics. It does however, occur to humans with
LDL > 100, and heart disease is rare in cultures where LDL is low.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Heart disease country is in India among the vegetarian Hindus who have triple the incidence of heart disease of their meat eating neighbors, the Indian Muslim. This is referred to as the Indian Paradox. <<

COMMENT:

There's no paradox about it. You know about that favorite Hindu food
clarified butter, called ghee? Full of saturated fat, transfat,
oxidized cholesterol. I can't think of a food better designed to give
you atherosclerosis, and it has NOTHING to do with carbohydrates. Nada.

If these Hindus were vegan, now THAT would be a paradox. Ghee is no
paradox. Ghee will kill you.

SBH