Who will race bikes now?

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (chris)
Date: 10/30/2004 6:10 PM Eastern

Quoted message said:

Seriously, though, $10 for 1 day licenses? I understand insurance
rates and all that, but do the other federations also see the
increases USAC offers us?

I would subsidize one days if that's what it took. They are designed to give
people who haven't raced before, or are just thinking about coming back a
chance to do it without spending serious cash for a yearly license.
IMO this is going to discourage grass roots growth.
Thanks Folks
Bill C

The big mistake was when they raised the annual license fee to $50 but
kept the 1-day fee at $5. Lots of occasional racers decided it wasn't
worth getting an annual license if they were only racing 4 or 5 races a
year. I don't think $10 for 1-day licenses is excessive at all -
should have been that way two years ago. I do think $60 for an annual
license is excessive, and we will lose licensed riders as a result, but
at least the Regional Associations that are doing much of the work on
the local level are getting a cut of the license fees. From the
promoter's prespective, the increases do not affect what they charge
for entry fees. If entry fees go up, it's because of other factors,
usually police costs and safety (ambulance) costs, or of course lack of
sponsorship. Processing the 1-day licenses is by far the biggest
post-race pain in the [censored] for promoters.

"TritonRider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (chris)
Date: 10/30/2004 6:10 PM Eastern

Quoted message said:

Seriously, though, $10 for 1 day licenses? I understand insurance
rates and all that, but do the other federations also see the
increases USAC offers us?

I would subsidize one days if that's what it took. They are designed to
give
people who haven't raced before, or are just thinking about coming back a
chance to do it without spending serious cash for a yearly license.
IMO this is going to discourage grass roots growth.
Thanks Folks
Bill C

Nipplehead,

Then I suggest you cut a check for all those one days and send it off to
Gerard and explain what it's for
Dave

Quoted message said:

rom: "Dave H" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Nipplehead,

Then I suggest you cut a check for all those one days and send it off to
Gerard and explain what it's for
Dave

I pay full price for the "privilege" of putting up with the [censored] from
people like you. I really am not sure how long I'm going to keep working races.
Between the politics, and rider [censored] it seems to be a diminishing return.
What would you suggest to help the sport grow? I'm more than willing to
listen.
I was going to upgrade my Motor Official license, but it's not worth it. I'll
let the people who have a thicker skin than me, or have their own agenda (a
much larger group) do it.
Bill C

Quoted message said:

From: "packmagician" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Processing the 1-day licenses is by far the biggest
post-race pain in the [censored] for promoters.

Yeah, they are. My wife does it for a bunch of races every year where she runs
registration. It is a pain in the ass, but what incentive do you have for new
racers?
Bill C

I'm not seeing a big problem attracting new racers. The one-day
license itself is pretty good at attracting new riders, even at $10.
The problem I'm seeing is getting them up to Cat. 4 where they are
racing consistently rather than just treating the local training rides
as races and staying eternal Cat. 5s. We just had a little local bike
race. The winning Cat. 5s got trophies and a handshake, most other
classes got a bit of cash. Cat. 5s outnumbered Cat. 4s about 4:1 and
more than half of them were racing on 1-day licenses. There are
probably only 20 road races a year in the immediate area, so with $5
one-day licenses, most were quite content to forgo the annual license
and buy one-day licenses for the five or six races they did. I need
riders to get licences and get interested in upgrading so they can race
in the really fun races with the big prizelists and learn what racing
is all about. IMHO, a $60 annual license fee is a barrier to that.
Maybe we should devote some of our club sponsorship to subsidizing the
license fees for new riders??

Quoted message said:

From: "packmagician" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Maybe we should devote some of our club sponsorship to subsidizing the
license fees for new riders??

Now That's an idea.
Thanks for thinking.
Bill C

I can't tell you about all other federations but Inline speed skating
has a lousy federation. Compared to the USA Roller Sports, cycling has
a great federation!

I would be happy to pay the license costs if it helps the sport
federation provide better services. The 1 day licenses should be
expensive to encourage people to buy a one year license.

How much does your bike cost?

This year, I did only a few cycling races but I was still happy to pay
the federation fee since in my experience they do a fairly good job.

My advices for the USA Cycling would be to triple the cost for master
fatty racing and cut the price of junior licenses to zero. Category
fives should pay through the nose and the price should go down for each
category. The category ones who have lost all their jobs due to their
exercise addiction should have a one dollar license.

-Mark

TritonRider said:

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (chris)
Date: 10/30/2004 6:10 PM Eastern

Quoted message said:

Seriously, though, $10 for 1 day licenses? I understand insurance
rates and all that, but do the other federations also see the
increases USAC offers us?

I would subsidize one days if that's what it took. They are designed to give
people who haven't raced before, or are just thinking about coming back a
chance to do it without spending serious cash for a yearly license.
IMO this is going to discourage grass roots growth.
Thanks Folks
Bill C

What's your point here Dave? Really, I think the real problem is the
escalation. Every two-three years license fees go up. Why did my UCI
license go from $125 to $130 if the domestic increased by $10? Sounds
like they shaved a bit off the UCI. Wait a second why [censored] does the
UCI license cost so much to begin with? Where does that money go?

I think the dual increase will hurt growth. Trust me, after running a
training series for 2 years I know that a $10 fee will turn away
people, but the the $60 annual fee will all but guarantee those one
days won't go to the yearly. IMHO.

CH

In article <[email hidden]>, chris

Quoted message said:

What's your point here Dave? Really, I think the real problem is the
escalation. Every two-three years license fees go up. Why did my UCI
license go from $125 to $130 if the domestic increased by $10? Sounds
like they shaved a bit off the UCI. Wait a second why [censored] does the
UCI license cost so much to begin with? Where does that money go?

I think the dual increase will hurt growth. Trust me, after running a
training series for 2 years I know that a $10 fee will turn away
people, but the the $60 annual fee will all but guarantee those one
days won't go to the yearly. IMHO.

CH

The cost of almost everything goes up over time. Look at gas prices,
housing costs, the cost of most food items etc. Why should the cost of
a racing license be any different from everything else that goes up
over time?

I actually think that the increase in 1 day license fees might give
some people an incentive to take out an annual license instead of just
racing on 1 day licenses. Next year the break even point ( where you
start saving money getting an annual vs using a 1 day license) is 6
races instyead of the 10 races this year. I have seen lots of first
time racers who don't blink at paying post enter surcharges, high entry
fees, even pay for a full annual license just to do a single race. If
promoters or clubs want to reduce the impact of the higher 1 day
license fee they migh consider reducing or elliminating the post entry
surcharge for people who are using a 1 day license. This would
eliminate the impact of the higher 1 day license fee in most cases
since most 1 day license users also tend to wait till race day to
enter.

"packmagician" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The big mistake was when they raised the annual license fee to $50 but
kept the 1-day fee at $5. Lots of occasional racers decided it wasn't
worth getting an annual license if they were only racing 4 or 5 races a
year. I don't think $10 for 1-day licenses is excessive at all -
should have been that way two years ago. I do think $60 for an annual
license is excessive, and we will lose licensed riders as a result, but
at least the Regional Associations that are doing much of the work on
the local level are getting a cut of the license fees. From the
promoter's prespective, the increases do not affect what they charge
for entry fees. If entry fees go up, it's because of other factors,
usually police costs and safety (ambulance) costs, or of course lack of
sponsorship. Processing the 1-day licenses is by far the biggest
post-race pain in the [censored] for promoters.

I have the same thoughts. I also think that what could happen (if there was
a way to track) is that the initial race (or a few) could be kept at $5 and
then after would go to $10 for those avoiding the annual license. I think
that makes sense for everyone. Same day licenses have always been about
creating a very low barrier to those that want to try racing. It was never
intended to be a way to save money by only racing a few times year after
year or even the first year. Obviously it is good for the sport to have
people able to try it for low cost (time and money getting an annual
license) and it is just as obvious that people should be able to make a
commitment after one or two races (the first one is unusually the worst
experience for many although not normally bad enough to dissuade anyone from
doing more). Maybe a coupon can be made available to invite people to try
racing for only $5 for whatever quantity of races is decided upon. That
would also create a way to "invite" people out. Race evangelists could carry
a few coupons with them and use them to invite guys (and gals) out that look
to have the ability.

"packmagician" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm not seeing a big problem attracting new racers. The one-day
license itself is pretty good at attracting new riders, even at $10.
The problem I'm seeing is getting them up to Cat. 4 where they are
racing consistently rather than just treating the local training rides
as races and staying eternal Cat. 5s.

Good point, maybe make it $5 for Cat 5 only (and new Masters? I don't even
know how that works...)

We just had a little local bike

Quoted message said:

race. The winning Cat. 5s got trophies and a handshake, most other
classes got a bit of cash. Cat. 5s outnumbered Cat. 4s about 4:1 and
more than half of them were racing on 1-day licenses. There are
probably only 20 road races a year in the immediate area, so with $5
one-day licenses, most were quite content to forgo the annual license
and buy one-day licenses for the five or six races they did. I need
riders to get licences and get interested in upgrading so they can race
in the really fun races with the big prizelists and learn what racing
is all about. IMHO, a $60 annual license fee is a barrier to that.
Maybe we should devote some of our club sponsorship to subsidizing the
license fees for new riders??

"50kph" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I can't tell you about all other federations but Inline speed skating
has a lousy federation. Compared to the USA Roller Sports, cycling has
a great federation!

One should expect more from a mature sport and federation. Complacency is
not good for anyone. When the sport was growing so fast in the 80s people
were pretty flexible about a lot of things, but at some point you reasonably
expect the federation(s) to grow up and to be on a path of (as least
striving for) continuous improvement.

Quoted message said:

I would be happy to pay the license costs if it helps the sport
federation provide better services. The 1 day licenses should be
expensive to encourage people to buy a one year license.

How much does your bike cost?

This year, I did only a few cycling races but I was still happy to pay
the federation fee since in my experience they do a fairly good job.

My advices for the USA Cycling would be to triple the cost for master
fatty racing and cut the price of junior licenses to zero. Category
fives should pay through the nose and the price should go down for each
category.

What are you talking about? Free for junior newbies and fund it from newbies
over 18? That is kind of stupid thinking. I do think that the first few
races should be easy to enter no matter what the age. Perhaps students
(regardless of age) deserve to have the same consideration but I would not
attack specific categories (other than offering the first few at a
discount).

Quoted message said:

The category ones who have lost all their jobs due to their
exercise addiction should have a one dollar license.

Yeah, ok....

Quoted message said:

-Mark

TritonRider said:

Quoted message said:

From: [email hidden] (chris)
Date: 10/30/2004 6:10 PM Eastern

Quoted message said:

Seriously, though, $10 for 1 day licenses? I understand insurance
rates and all that, but do the other federations also see the
increases USAC offers us?

I would subsidize one days if that's what it took. They are designed to

give

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

people who haven't raced before, or are just thinking about coming back

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

chance to do it without spending serious cash for a yearly license.
IMO this is going to discourage grass roots growth.
Thanks Folks
Bill C

Quoted message said:

From: "Chris" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I have the same thoughts. I also think that what could happen (if there was
a way to track) is that the initial race (or a few) could be kept at $5 and
then after would go to $10 for those avoiding the annual license. I think
that makes sense for everyone. Same day licenses have always been about
creating a very low barrier to those that want to try racing. It was never
intended to be a way to save money by only racing a few times year after
year or even the first year. Obviously it is good for the sport to have
people able to try it for low cost (time and money getting an annual
license) and it is just as obvious that people should be able to make a
commitment after one or two races (the first one is unusually the worst
experience for many although not normally bad enough to dissuade anyone from
doing more). Maybe a coupon can be made available to invite people to try
racing for only $5 for whatever quantity of races is decided upon. That
would also create a way to "invite" people out. Race evangelists could carry
a few coupons with them and use them to invite guys (and gals) out that look
to have the ability.

Well said. That was pretty much my point, but you said it better than I did.
Bill C

this is getting interesting...

the fees for other endurnce and adventure type sports are HIGH!... cycling has
always been cheap by comparison... people dont really think too much about how
much the event costs if they know that they are going to go out and have a good
time...

this is where a lot of local cycling fails miserably compared to its more
expensive counterparts/competition... promotions commonly are held only as fund
raisers for the hosting club and every corner is cut to lower the bottom line
and increase profits... clubs should concentrate more on everyone having a
great day out with family and freinds like triathlon, running and adventure
promoters do... this wil get new people out... forget about the fees...

shawn wallace told me that there were only ever three reasons that he went out
to race... 1- he was going to make a ton of money...2- it was going to advance
his career... 3- he was going to have a lot of fun.... for mostly all of us the
first two never come into play at all... and for evey one of us the third thing
is what we all think about when we think of racing... so the question is- being
that one and two are nowhere in the equation, what do racers, clubs and
promoters do to make sure we have a great time when we pay our 'high ass' fees
to go to a race?...

i dont race locally that often because i know i wont have any fun and i will
kill the whole day going out there... i wont make any money... it wont advane
my career at all to go to a local race... and i already said that these races
arent any fun... so, i would go more and so would other people if it was any
fun at all... figure it out race promoters... the entry fees are the least of
the problems...

or license fees either...

or license fees either...

erik saunders said:

shawn wallace told me that there were only ever three reasons that he went out
to race... 1- he was going to make a ton of money...2- it was going to advance
his career... 3- he was going to have a lot of fun.... for mostly all of us the
first two never come into play at all... and for evey one of us the third thing
is what we all think about when we think of racing... so the question is- being

Hallelujah to that.
I mean, "Amen".

Every time I think of hanging it up, I get to go out on a whacked-out
mountain bike ride or in a big pack in a road race. The sheer thrill of
being in a group at speed, listening to the wind and full-on
concentrating on what you are doing is just a rush. Then when you
realize that you are doing something that the majority of the population
couldn't do, you want to keep on doing it.

(erik saunders) said:

this is getting interesting...

the fees for other endurnce and adventure type sports are HIGH!... cycling has
always been cheap by comparison... people dont really think too much about how
much the event costs if they know that they are going to go out and have a good
time...

Yeah, I don't think cycling fees are not that high. BUT the one
problem is for teenagers doing it w/o much parental help. I was able
to get a bike but never had much cash when I was in my teens (guess I
shouldve worked after school more, but I had a lot of schoolwork and
sometimes a long commute). I could ride to races since I lived in a
city with a series. But getting together money for entry fees was not
trivial and they were $5-10 at the time. We've still got a couple
cheap local series where I live, which is good for people in that
situation.

JT

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