Who's the boss?

"Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On French television today, Armstrong denied being the boss
(amazingly, the French interviewer referred to him as Bruce
Springsteen #2), stating that the era of "patrons" was over, though he
did state that he was the patron of his team, or at least, he hoped
so.

On the other hand, today's stage revealed that another rider believes
himself to be the patron. That is Richard Virenque, who in one of the
mountain sprints for 4th place points, almost crashed Mancebo with a
dangerous manoeuvre. Afterwards, he explained to him that he had no
business sprinting for the mountain points. Note that Mancebo is not
some igorant ne-pro, but a team leader! Moreover, Virenque has also
somehow finally convinced Moreau not to beat him in
sprints. Apparently, Virenque believes that the KOM jersey is his own
private property which should remain uncontested. Not surprising,
since that his essentially how he won his other titles. On the other
hand, he still remains far behind Jalabert in terms of intelligence,
as it was clear that he had to lose lots of time on yesterday's stage
in order to be allowed in an early break. I guess he didn't understand
what Jalabert said to him when he was intentionally losing time in
2002 (Jalabert told him "casse-toi", that is, "[censored] off" when Virenque
tried riding the last few km's with him). Speaking of which, the
correct strategy of losing time on purpose in order to gain the KOM
jersey is another reason why this competition is meaningless.

-ilan

I agree that Virenque ego is enormous when it comes to KOM. Yes, in his mind
he does own it, and how dare anyone think that it could belong to anyone
else when he is racing. I mean he lives for this. He can't win the tour, and
the KOM puts you in the limelight more then anything it seems. It's a huge
thing in terms of exposure, press. Virenque knows just what a big deal it is
even thought the competition might seem meaningless as you say.

Ilan Vardi said:

On French television today, Armstrong denied being the boss
(amazingly, the French interviewer referred to him as Bruce
Springsteen #2), stating that the era of "patrons" was over, though he
did state that he was the patron of his team, or at least, he hoped
so.

On the other hand, today's stage revealed that another rider believes
himself to be the patron. That is Richard Virenque, who in one of the
mountain sprints for 4th place points, almost crashed Mancebo with a
dangerous manoeuvre. Afterwards, he explained to him that he had no
business sprinting for the mountain points. Note that Mancebo is not
some igorant ne-pro, but a team leader! Moreover, Virenque has also
somehow finally convinced Moreau not to beat him in
sprints. Apparently, Virenque believes that the KOM jersey is his own
private property which should remain uncontested. Not surprising,
since that his essentially how he won his other titles. On the other
hand, he still remains far behind Jalabert in terms of intelligence,
as it was clear that he had to lose lots of time on yesterday's stage
in order to be allowed in an early break. I guess he didn't understand
what Jalabert said to him when he was intentionally losing time in
2002 (Jalabert told him "casse-toi", that is, "[censored] off" when Virenque
tried riding the last few km's with him). Speaking of which, the
correct strategy of losing time on purpose in order to gain the KOM
jersey is another reason why this competition is meaningless.

-ilan

I'm assuming there will be KoM points for the Alpe d'Huez TT, which will
probably be heaped in some part on Armstrong, who is already doing well
on that front, even if he doesn't mean to. Could Lance rear up and kick
[censored]'s teeth in and seize enough points to take that honor, too?

Ilan Vardi wrote in part:

<< On the other hand, today's stage revealed that another rider believes
himself to be the patron. That is Richard Virenque, who in one of the
mountain sprints for 4th place points, almost crashed Mancebo with a
dangerous manoeuvre. Afterwards, he explained to him that he had no
business sprinting for the mountain points. Note that Mancebo is not
some igorant ne-pro, but a team leader! Moreover, Virenque has also
somehow finally convinced Moreau not to beat him in
sprints. Apparently, Virenque believes that the KOM jersey is his own
private property which should remain uncontested. Not surprising,
since that his essentially how he won his other titles. On the other
hand, he still remains far behind Jalabert in terms of intelligence,
as it was clear that he had to lose lots of time on yesterday's stage
in order to be allowed in an early break. I guess he didn't understand
what Jalabert said to him when he was intentionally losing time in
2002 (Jalabert told him "casse-toi", that is, "[censored] off" when Virenque
tried riding the last few km's with him). Speaking of which, the
correct strategy of losing time on purpose in order to gain the KOM
jersey is another reason why this competition is meaningless. >>

The polka dot jersey looked appropriately clownish on
Jalabert as well as Virenque.

Robert

(Ilan Vardi) said:

tried riding the last few km's with him). Speaking of which, the
correct strategy of losing time on purpose in order to gain the KOM
jersey is another reason why this competition is meaningless.

True, allthought deliberate loss of time is, unfortunately,
indistinguisable from brave but vain attemp for solo win a la the many
popular attemps by the mexican in the Giro '01.

But the KOM competition does need further adjustments to make it more
interesting. It is too easy to get a defendable lead in the first
mountains stage.

Suggestions
- Give sixfold points from last climb. Works with points competition
- Less points per climb, and just for top three regardless of category
- Double points last week
- Substract the points as seconds from GC time (and same for sprinter
points)
- No points but measure the time used for each climb. Easily done with
the yellow boxes.
- For top 3 for each climb, substract 30%, 20% and 10% of climbing time
from GC time.

Also, having a large number of different jerseys/competitions is
good. This gives the smaller teams hope for some time in spotlight
without needing to spoil the sprints with dangerous moves. Works much
better than early TTs (which don't work).

Quoted message said:

-ilan

MJ;

--
..signature necesse est

"Sierraman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ilan Vardi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On French television today, Armstrong denied being the boss
(amazingly, the French interviewer referred to him as Bruce
Springsteen #2), stating that the era of "patrons" was over, though he
did state that he was the patron of his team, or at least, he hoped
so.

On the other hand, today's stage revealed that another rider believes
himself to be the patron. That is Richard Virenque, who in one of the
mountain sprints for 4th place points, almost crashed Mancebo with a
dangerous manoeuvre. Afterwards, he explained to him that he had no
business sprinting for the mountain points. Note that Mancebo is not
some igorant ne-pro, but a team leader! Moreover, Virenque has also
somehow finally convinced Moreau not to beat him in
sprints. Apparently, Virenque believes that the KOM jersey is his own
private property which should remain uncontested. Not surprising,
since that his essentially how he won his other titles. On the other
hand, he still remains far behind Jalabert in terms of intelligence,
as it was clear that he had to lose lots of time on yesterday's stage
in order to be allowed in an early break. I guess he didn't understand
what Jalabert said to him when he was intentionally losing time in
2002 (Jalabert told him "casse-toi", that is, "[censored] off" when Virenque
tried riding the last few km's with him). Speaking of which, the
correct strategy of losing time on purpose in order to gain the KOM
jersey is another reason why this competition is meaningless.

I agree that Virenque ego is enormous when it comes to KOM. Yes, in his

mind

Quoted message said:

he does own it, and how dare anyone think that it could belong to anyone
else when he is racing. I mean he lives for this. He can't win the tour,

and

Quoted message said:

the KOM puts you in the limelight more then anything it seems. It's a huge
thing in terms of exposure, press. Virenque knows just what a big deal it

is

Quoted message said:

even thought the competition might seem meaningless as you say.

Come on. Give Richard his due. He plays by the ASO Tour rules and wins the
Polka Dots. He's the only Frenchman until this year to look very good. And
this will be his last limelight dance.

"Richard Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ilan Vardi said:

On French television today, Armstrong denied being the boss
(amazingly, the French interviewer referred to him as Bruce
Springsteen #2), stating that the era of "patrons" was over, though he
did state that he was the patron of his team, or at least, he hoped
so.

On the other hand, today's stage revealed that another rider believes
himself to be the patron. That is Richard Virenque, who in one of the
mountain sprints for 4th place points, almost crashed Mancebo with a
dangerous manoeuvre. Afterwards, he explained to him that he had no
business sprinting for the mountain points. Note that Mancebo is not
some igorant ne-pro, but a team leader! Moreover, Virenque has also
somehow finally convinced Moreau not to beat him in
sprints. Apparently, Virenque believes that the KOM jersey is his own
private property which should remain uncontested. Not surprising,
since that his essentially how he won his other titles. On the other
hand, he still remains far behind Jalabert in terms of intelligence,
as it was clear that he had to lose lots of time on yesterday's stage
in order to be allowed in an early break. I guess he didn't understand
what Jalabert said to him when he was intentionally losing time in
2002 (Jalabert told him "casse-toi", that is, "[censored] off" when Virenque
tried riding the last few km's with him). Speaking of which, the
correct strategy of losing time on purpose in order to gain the KOM
jersey is another reason why this competition is meaningless.

-ilan

I'm assuming there will be KoM points for the Alpe d'Huez TT, which will
probably be heaped in some part on Armstrong, who is already doing well
on that front, even if he doesn't mean to. Could Lance rear up and kick
[censored]'s teeth in and seize enough points to take that honor, too?

Yes, but Richard will still get the jersey because it is always awarded to
the rider with the most points not already winning a more important jersey.
IOW, the yellow jersey winner can't take the KoM jersey off anyone's back.