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Who pays for pollution? You do!!!

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Road Cycling
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12 June 2003
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Don Quijote
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  1. Quoted message said:

    Liberals have this horrible tendancy to take a perfectly logical law, and try to stretch it to its
    most ridiculous point, remove personal repsonsibility and put government control in its place in
    the name of "public safety."

    Yeah, you are right. Some laws are stupid... (Let these "babies" fare for themselves.)

    Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Taxpayer Perspective

    Cut fossil fuel subsidies... As a first step toward action on climate change, the U.S. should cut
    over $5 billion in annual subsidies to the fossil fuel industry. Eliminating subsidies for oil, gas,
    and coal can attract broad political support because it will save taxpayer money, reduce greenhouse
    gas emissions, and eliminate obsolete government programs. Cutting government support for fossil
    fuels is a common sense idea supported by economists, climate scientists, international
    organizations, and free-market activists. Taxpayers don't need to wait for international
    negotiations. Congress and the Administration should act immediately to cut fossil fuel subsidies

    Save taxpayers $5 billion a year… The fossil fuel industry is no longer an infant enterprise that
    can argue for government nurturing, but a mature industry that does not deserve government handouts.
    The sixteen subsidies highlighted in this fact sheet give coal, oil, and natural gas over $5 billion
    per year. The industry has already received more than its fair share, collecting $150 billion in
    subsidies from the federal government between 1918 and 1978, according to the U.S. Department of
    Energy. Finally, many of the existing subsidies, such as funds for a rural electrification agency,
    continue to drain tax dollars even though their original purpose has long been fulfilled or
    forgotten.

    …Reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Cutting subsidies can play a part in reducing greenhouse gas
    emissions. Eliminating all federal energy subsidies would reduce U.S. carbon emissions by 4%
    annually, or 65-70 million metric tons, according to a study prepared for the U.S. Environmental
    Protection Agency. This is 30% of the reduction the U.S. will need to reach 1990 emission levels, a
    current benchmark for reductions acknowledged by President Clinton and other global leaders.

    Eliminating $5 billion in annual subsidies will reduce U.S. greenhouse gas output 30% toward the
    goal of freezing emissions at 1990 levels.

    The 16 Worst Subsidies – $5 Billion Every Year

    Immediate Expensing of Exploration and Development Costs – $200 million/year Oil, gas, and coal
    producers can immediately expense (write off) most or all of their development costs. Other
    businesses must deduct these expenses over a longer period of time. Percentage Depletion Allowance
    for Oil and Gas – $600 million/year Independent oil and gas companies can deduct 15 percent of their
    sales revenue using the special percentage depletion allowance – instead of the standard cost
    depreciation – regardless of the actual loss in value over time. Requiring Full Coal Firm Support
    for the Black Lung Fund – $350 million/year Designed to internalize the health-related costs of coal
    mining, this fund requires government support to pay for work-related disabilities of coal miners.
    Intangible Drilling Costs – $500 million/year Integrated oil and gas companies can immediately
    deduct 70 percent of "intangible" drilling costs. Most other businesses deduct such expenses over
    time and therefore receive less of a tax benefit. Passive Loss for Oil and Gas – $100 million/year
    This tax shelter for investors in oil and gas allows certain owners to offset "passive losses"
    against income to pay lower taxes. Non-Conventional Fuel Production Credit – $1.3 billion/year This
    tax credit for certain types of fuel extracted from "non-conventional" sources was intended to
    provide incentives for petroleum alternatives, but most of the credit has gone for oil and gas
    production. Tax Breaks for Enhanced Oil Recovery – $100 million/year Expensing (writing off)
    tertiary injectant costs and the tax credit for enhanced oil recovery encourage extraction of
    difficult to reach and expensive oil deposit remnants. Clean Coal Technology Program – $250 million/
    year This program helps finance private companies to develop cleaner burning coal technologies by
    providing up to 50 percent in federal matching funds. Coal R&D – $100 million/year The Department of
    Energy supports research in technology programs for producing, refining, and burning coal products.
    Other Fossil Energy R&D – $100 million/year The federal government provides subsidies for oil and
    natural gas research and development. Multilateral Development Bank Loans for Fossil Fuel – $80
    million/year The U.S. federal government supports several multilateral development banks, which
    provide loans for fossil fuel development in other countries. Export Import Bank Guarantees for
    Fossil Fuel – $300 million/year The Export Import Bank provides federal loan guarantees for
    investments in unstable countries. A portion of these loans are used for fossil fuel development.
    Capital Gains Treatment of Royalties on Coal – $15 million/year Individual owners (as opposed to
    corporations) who lease out their coal mining rights are able to pay capital gains taxes on these
    royalties, rather than the higher top individual income tax rate. Income Tax Exemption for Publicly
    Owned Utilities – $200 million/year Publicly owned utilities and cooperatives are not subject to
    federal income tax on their profits or retained earnings. Some of these utilities use fossil fuels.
    Rural Utilities Service Loans – $900 million/year The federal government provides low-interest loans
    to rural-electrification cooperatives. These cooperatives have invested heavily in energy plants
    using fossil fuels. Tax Exemption for Publicly Owned Utility Bonds – $550 million/year Publicly
    owned utilities (POUs) can issue tax-exempt bonds. A significant portion of POUs have invested in
    energy sources using fossil fuels.

    Cutting $5 billion in annual U.S. subsidies to use fossil fuel makes economic sense…

    "The most efficient approach to slowing climate change is through market-based policies." –
    statement signed by over 1,000 economists

    "Without the right incentives there will be very little practical action on global climate change],
    just words. But with the right incentives in place there is a lot that could be done." – John
    Browne, Group Chief Executive, British Petroleum

    "Elimination of [energy] subsidies would . . . provide long-term benefits for the nation as a
    whole." –The President's Council on Sustainable Development

    …and is important to addressing climate change.

    "A number of studies . . . indicate that global emission reductions of 4 ­ 18%, together with
    increases in real incomes, are possible from phasing out fuel subsidies." – Intergovernmental Panel
    on Climate Change

    "After 2015, the elimination of subsidies [now] prevents the growth of total [U.S.] carbon
    emissions." – Decision Focus Incorporated for the U.S. EPA

    "The elimination of federal [fossil fuel] energy subsidies secures reductions in carbon emissions
    that average between 4.0 and 4.4 percent annually. . . . In absolute terms, carbon emissions are
    lower by between 65 and 70 million metric tons annually as these subsidies are removed." – Dale W.
    Jorgenson Associates for the U.S. EPA

    So let's take action.

    "The most expensive subsidies that raise emissions are ‘leftovers' from history in the sense
    that their original justification has long since disappeared." – Decision Focus Incorporated for
    the U.S. EPA

    "The removal of fossil fuel subsidies has been advocated as the first order of priority in
    instituting economic policies to protect local and global environments." – World Bank

    Regardless of the outcome of the Kyoto Treaty, it violates common sense for federal taxpayers to
    continue subsidizing the consumption of fossil fuels.

    webspawner.comdonquijote

  2. This looks logical enough to me - but I'd add a caveat.

    It's not enough to cut out federal tax subsidies that provide "welfare" for the fossil fuel
    industry, because there are particular groups of middle class Americans and particular American
    communities that, rightly or wrongly, have grown dependent on fossil fuel production.

    Clearly it's insane to keep subsidizing the oil and gas companies when the products they turn out
    are bad for the global environment, but the government needs to take action that ending the
    subsidies doesn't leave the working people caught in a cleft stick.

    Along with a "green scissors" campaign to eliminate federal tax subsidies for fossil fuels, there
    should be a "GI Bill for the Environment" or a "GI Bill for Workers" to pay workers in obsolete
    industries for leaving those industries and learning new skills, so that they aren't just thrown
    onto the unemployment rolls.

    The original "GI Bill," passed I believe in 1946, used just this mechanism to help returning
    veterans from World War II go back to trade school or to college, as an alternative to flooding an
    already glutted job market and contributing to unemployment problems. The GI Bill wasn't perfect,
    but it helped more than a million returning veterans upgrade their educations and their job skills,
    and it probably contributed to the striking prosperity that the United States enjoyed from 1945
    through approximately 1971.

    The government can and do something similar for workers in the fossil fuels industries as it begins
    to phase out absurd subsidies for the wrong kinds of energy production.

    The workers deserve no less, the environmental movement would be strengthened by offering the
    workers something instead of merely taking something away. And it's something that's well within the
    American political tradition; there's nothing "radical" or "foreign" about it at all.

    -------------

    [email hidden] (Don Quijote) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Liberals have this horrible tendancy to take a perfectly logical law, and try to stretch it to
    its most ridiculous point, remove personal repsonsibility and put government control in its
    place in the name of "public safety."

    Yeah, you are right. Some laws are stupid... (Let these "babies" fare for themselves.)

    Fossil Fuel Subsidies: A Taxpayer Perspective

    Cut fossil fuel subsidies... As a first step toward action on climate change, the U.S. should cut
    over $5 billion in annual subsidies to the fossil fuel industry. Eliminating subsidies for oil,
    gas, and coal can attract broad political support because it will save taxpayer money, reduce
    greenhouse gas emissions, and eliminate obsolete government programs. Cutting government support
    for fossil fuels is a common sense idea supported by economists, climate scientists, international
    organizations, and free-market activists. Taxpayers don't need to wait for international
    negotiations. Congress and the Administration should act immediately to cut fossil fuel subsidies

    Save taxpayers $5 billion a year? The fossil fuel industry is no longer an infant enterprise that
    can argue for government nurturing, but a mature industry that does not deserve government
    handouts. The sixteen subsidies highlighted in this fact sheet give coal, oil, and natural gas
    over $5 billion per year. The industry has already received more than its fair share, collecting
    $150 billion in subsidies from the federal government between 1918 and 1978, according to the U.S.
    Department of Energy. Finally, many of the existing subsidies, such as funds for a rural
    electrification agency, continue to drain tax dollars even though their original purpose has long
    been fulfilled or forgotten.

    ?Reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Cutting subsidies can play a part in reducing greenhouse gas
    emissions. Eliminating all federal energy subsidies would reduce U.S. carbon emissions by 4%
    annually, or 65-70 million metric tons, according to a study prepared for the U.S. Environmental
    Protection Agency. This is 30% of the reduction the U.S. will need to reach 1990 emission levels,
    a current benchmark for reductions acknowledged by President Clinton and other global leaders.

    Eliminating $5 billion in annual subsidies will reduce U.S. greenhouse gas output 30% toward the
    goal of freezing emissions at 1990 levels.

    The 16 Worst Subsidies ? $5 Billion Every Year

    Immediate Expensing of Exploration and Development Costs ? $200 million/year Oil, gas, and coal
    producers can immediately expense (write off) most or all of their development costs. Other
    businesses must deduct these expenses over a longer period of time. Percentage Depletion Allowance
    for Oil and Gas ? $600 million/year Independent oil and gas companies can deduct 15 percent of
    their sales revenue using the special percentage depletion allowance ? instead of the standard
    cost depreciation ? regardless of the actual loss in value over time. Requiring Full Coal Firm
    Support for the Black Lung Fund ? $350 million/year Designed to internalize the health-related
    costs of coal mining, this fund requires government support to pay for work-related disabilities
    of coal miners. Intangible Drilling Costs ? $500 million/year Integrated oil and gas companies can
    immediately deduct 70 percent of "intangible" drilling costs. Most other businesses deduct such
    expenses over time and therefore receive less of a tax benefit. Passive Loss for Oil and Gas ?
    $100 million/year This tax shelter for investors in oil and gas allows certain owners to offset
    "passive losses" against income to pay lower taxes. Non-Conventional Fuel Production Credit ? $1.3
    billion/year This tax credit for certain types of fuel extracted from "non-conventional" sources
    was intended to provide incentives for petroleum alternatives, but most of the credit has gone for
    oil and gas production. Tax Breaks for Enhanced Oil Recovery ? $100 million/year Expensing
    (writing off) tertiary injectant costs and the tax credit for enhanced oil recovery encourage
    extraction of difficult to reach and expensive oil deposit remnants. Clean Coal Technology Program
    ? $250 million/ year This program helps finance private companies to develop cleaner burning coal
    technologies by providing up to 50 percent in federal matching funds. Coal R&D ? $100 million/year
    The Department of Energy supports research in technology programs for producing, refining, and
    burning coal products. Other Fossil Energy R&D ? $100 million/year The federal government provides
    subsidies for oil and natural gas research and development. Multilateral Development Bank Loans
    for Fossil Fuel ? $80 million/year The U.S. federal government supports several multilateral
    development banks, which provide loans for fossil fuel development in other countries. Export
    Import Bank Guarantees for Fossil Fuel ? $300 million/year The Export Import Bank provides federal
    loan guarantees for investments in unstable countries. A portion of these loans are used for
    fossil fuel development. Capital Gains Treatment of Royalties on Coal ? $15 million/year
    Individual owners (as opposed to corporations) who lease out their coal mining rights are able to
    pay capital gains taxes on these royalties, rather than the higher top individual income tax rate.
    Income Tax Exemption for Publicly Owned Utilities ? $200 million/year Publicly owned utilities and
    cooperatives are not subject to federal income tax on their profits or retained earnings. Some of
    these utilities use fossil fuels. Rural Utilities Service Loans ? $900 million/year The federal
    government provides low-interest loans to rural-electrification cooperatives. These cooperatives
    have invested heavily in energy plants using fossil fuels. Tax Exemption for Publicly Owned
    Utility Bonds ? $550 million/year Publicly owned utilities (POUs) can issue tax-exempt bonds. A
    significant portion of POUs have invested in energy sources using fossil fuels.

    Cutting $5 billion in annual U.S. subsidies to use fossil fuel makes economic sense?

    "The most efficient approach to slowing climate change is through market-based policies." ?
    statement signed by over 1,000 economists

    "Without the right incentives there will be very little practical action on global climate
    change], just words. But with the right incentives in place there is a lot that could be done." ?
    John Browne, Group Chief Executive, British Petroleum

    "Elimination of [energy] subsidies would . . . provide long-term benefits for the nation as a
    whole." ?The President's Council on Sustainable Development

    ?and is important to addressing climate change.

    "A number of studies . . . indicate that global emission reductions of 4 ­ 18%, together with
    increases in real incomes, are possible from phasing out fuel subsidies." ? Intergovernmental
    Panel on Climate Change

    "After 2015, the elimination of subsidies [now] prevents the growth of total [U.S.] carbon
    emissions." ? Decision Focus Incorporated for the U.S. EPA

    "The elimination of federal [fossil fuel] energy subsidies secures reductions in carbon emissions
    that average between 4.0 and 4.4 percent annually. . . . In absolute terms, carbon emissions are
    lower by between 65 and 70 million metric tons annually as these subsidies are removed." ? Dale W.
    Jorgenson Associates for the U.S. EPA

    So let's take action.

    "The most expensive subsidies that raise emissions are ?leftovers' from history in the sense that
    their original justification has long since disappeared." ? Decision Focus Incorporated for the
    U.S. EPA

    "The removal of fossil fuel subsidies has been advocated as the first order of priority in
    instituting economic policies to protect local and global environments." ? World Bank

    Regardless of the outcome of the Kyoto Treaty, it violates common sense for federal taxpayers to
    continue subsidizing the consumption of fossil fuels.

    webspawner.comdonquijote

  3. "John David Galt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Don Quijote said:

    Cut fossil fuel subsidies... As a first step toward action on climate change, the U.S. should
    cut over $5 billion in annual subsidies to the fossil fuel industry.

    Sounds good to me.

    Then again, even if this subsidy exists, fossil fuels are already taxed a lot more than that (31.5
    cents per gallon in federal excise tax alone). So there has never been a _net_ subsidy.

    False. The sales taxes are for roads and infrastructure and are a tax on the CONSUMER, not affecting
    the corporate profits.

    And the subsidies are understated. Some put them as high as 84B all told when you detail the
    corporate tax breaks which reduce a 32% rate down to an effective 11% rate, and the military subsidy
    is clearly out of date given the Hundred Billion Dollar War(not a) .. But a detailed breakdown by a
    respected magasine shows

    Drillbits and Tailings: Volume 6, Number 9, November 30, 2001

    VITAL STATISTICS: 15 Largest US Government Subsidies to the Oil Industry The following list details
    the millions of dollars of US taxpayer money that the US government gives to oil industry in
    subsidies. Subsidies are sums of money given by the government specifically to support and/or
    stabilize industry. They are given without any obligation to pay them back. All dollar amounts are
    in millions.

    1. Oil Defense: Defense operations to protect and secure Persian Gulf oil shipments and
    infrastructure. US$10,459 - US$23,333

    2. Strategic Petroleum Reserve: Storage of crude oil to be used during price shocks and supply
    disruptions to stabilize domestic supply. US$41,560 - US$5,427

    3. Foreign Tax Credit: Allows a portion of foreign tax payments to be credited against, rather than
    deducted from, US taxes due. US$486 - US$1,057

    4. Accelerated depreciation of machinery and equipment: Allows machinery and equipment within the
    oil industry to be depreciated more quickly than their actual service lives. US$720 - US$976

    5. Excess of percentage over cost depletion: Allows firms to deduct more than their investment in
    oil properties from their taxes. US$335 - US$746

    6. Public liability for plugging, abandoning, and remediation of onshore wells: Annualized
    shortfall in bonding (insurance) levels needed to cover existing liabilities in on-going
    operations. US$119 - US$451

    7. Accelerated depreciation of buildings and other rental housing: Allows buildings owned by the
    oil industry to be depreciated more quickly than their actual service lives. US$234 - US$355

    8. U.S. Coast Guard: Water infrastructure (maintenance of coastal shipping; provision of
    navigational support; ice clearing) US$308 - US$308

    9. Deferral of income from controlled foreign corporations: Allows oil companies to delay payment
    of U.S. taxes due on earnings from certain foreign corporations. US$62 - US$303

    10. Low Income Home Energy Assistance: Assistance for low income energy consumers to buy oil
    US$274 - US$274

    11. US Army Corp of Engineers: A government agency that maintains waterways heavily used by oil
    tankers and barges. US$239 - US$259

    12. Expensing of exploration and development costs: Allows expenses related to multi-year oil well
    assets to be deducted from taxes in the current year rather than capitalized. (US$146) - US$243

    13. U.S. Export-Import Bank: Subsidized loans and insurance to support the sale of oil-related
    equipment and consulting services abroad by U.S. corporations. US$197 - US$241

    14. Royalty Undercollection due to Artificially Low Posted Prices: Undercollection due to use of
    below-market prices in computation of production value by integrated companies. US$31 - US$130

    15. Tax break from federal/state interaction: State revenue losses from federal tax breaks due to
    basing state taxable income calculations on federal tax returns. US$56 - US$119

    All other subsidies US$724 - US$970

    TOTAL VALUE OF TOP 15 SUBSIDIES Excluding Defense: US$4,477 - US$10,889* Including Defense:
    US$14,936 - US$34,323*

    *The two numbers in each line item represents a range between the highest and lowest estimates of
    each specific subsidy. This is indicative of the uncertainty surrounding some of the data inputs
    needed to estimate specific subsidies. Factors contributing to this range include differences
    between data sources, and the use of multiple approaches to assess certain subsidies.

    SOURCE: "Fueling Global Warming: Federal Subsidies to Oil in the United States," by Douglas Koplow
    and Aaron Martin, Industrial Economics, Inc

  4. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

    ...

    Quoted message said:

    And the subsidies are understated. Some put them as high as 84B all told when you detail the
    corporate tax breaks which reduce a 32% rate down to an effective 11% rate, and the military
    subsidy is clearly out of date given the Hundred Billion Dollar War(not a) .. But a detailed
    breakdown by a respected magasine shows

    ....

    Quoted message said:

    15. Tax break from federal/state interaction: State revenue losses from federal tax breaks due to
    basing state taxable income calculations on federal tax returns. US$56 - US$119

    Including the costs of the U.S. Military, Coast Guard and Corps of Engineers in an oil industry
    "subsidy" calculation is ludicrous, as is the income tax listed in item #15. The states choose how
    to calculate their income tax, and isn't based on its effect on the oil industry. Rhode Island
    calculates their income tax based on the federal tax, and has essentially NO oil industry.

    I don't know enough about the others to comment, but given the ones I do know something about, I
    have my doubts about them as well.

    --
    David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
    it's morning".

    Remove the ns_ from the address before e-mailing.

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,

    John David Galt said:
    Don Quijote said:

    Cut fossil fuel subsidies... As a first step toward action on climate change, the U.S. should cut
    over $5 billion in annual subsidies to the fossil fuel industry.

    Sounds good to me.

    Then again, even if this subsidy exists, fossil fuels are already taxed a lot more than that (31.5
    cents per gallon in federal excise tax alone). So there has never been a _net_ subsidy.


    Heck, the Republicans just pushed through a subsidiary for nuclear power. The US will guarantee 50%
    of any construction loans to build a new nuclear plant. (The government already covers the cost of
    any accident.)

  6. John David Galt <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Don Quijote said:

    Cut fossil fuel subsidies... As a first step toward action on climate change, the U.S. should
    cut over $5 billion in annual subsidies to the fossil fuel industry.

    Sounds good to me.

    Then again, even if this subsidy exists, fossil fuels are already taxed a lot more than that (31.5
    cents per gallon in federal excise tax alone). So there has never been a _net_ subsidy.

    Are you sure?

    Look at this subsidies...

    icta.orgrlprexsm.htm

    Of course, poor Brutus Maximus needs to have fun...

    STUPID UNNECESSARY VEHICLES

    This is an interview with Brutus Maximus, who drives an SUV...

    Reporter: What do you need that for?

    Brutus: I wanna be noticed...

    Reporter: Do you realize that you threaten the environment, others on the road as well as make
    wars for oil necessary?

    Brutus: Listen, I pay taxes so I don't care. Besides the war makes a nice TV show. Some TV and
    a Bud, isnt' that life?

    Reporter: What do you think of a place like Holland where people get around by bicycle?

    Brutus: I take my bikes in the back of my SUV, so what's the point?

    Reporter: What do you do with your spare time?

    Brutus: I drive the SUV...

    Reporter: Do you ever read?

    Brutus: Nah, I don't like to waste my time...

    Reporter: What do you think of the future of the world?

    Brutus: I never think about it...

    Reporter: Why do you fly an oversized American flag on your vehicle?

    Brutus: It makes me feel like a patriot...

    Reporter: Do you know that the whole world opposes the war?

    Brutus: Remember, they are a bunch of anti-American losers...

    Reporter: Are you worried about terrorism?

    Brutus: Nah, I ain't got an arsenal for nothing...

    Reporter: Any message for the troops?

    Brutus: Yeah, I want more shots of the Hummers hunting the enemy. Hunt'm-down-smoke'm-out! God
    Bless America!!!

    webspawner.comdonquijote

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