Who is guilty?

Your poll needs mutiple options. For me it boils down to the riders and the team managers. The team managers are largely if not entirely made up of former riders most of which at this point were riding during the beginnings of the EPO erra. I'm not sure how you would place significant blame on the facilitators and cops, if there were no riders willing to dope, there would be no problem period.

I was a little uncertain about how to structure the poll but perhaps if there is enough interest we can come up with a comprehensive poll and Lim can modify it.

davidbod said:

Your poll needs mutiple options. For me it boils down to the riders and the team managers. The team managers are largely if not entirely made up of former riders most of which at this point were riding during the beginnings of the EPO erra. I'm not sure how you would place significant blame on the facilitators and cops, if there were no riders willing to dope, there would be no problem period.

Agreed. They're all responsible. Stevebaby especially.

I blame the UCI.

It's the UCI who set the context in which the sport takes place.
I think that they're the guilty party.

The civil authorities in Spain/France/Italy have shown just what was really going on.
If they hadn't uncovered the reality, we'd still have the UCI telling us that cycling is doing all it can to eradicate the problem.
Neither they or the sport were doing anywhere near enough to eradicate anything.

The UCI's more interested in lining it's own pockets.

limerickman said:

I blame the UCI.

It's the UCI who set the context in which the sport takes place.
I think that they're the guilty party.

The civil authorities in Spain/France/Italy have shown just what was really going on.
If they hadn't uncovered the reality, we'd still have the UCI telling us that cycling is doing all it can to eradicate the problem.
Neither they or the sport were doing anywhere near enough to eradicate anything.

The UCI's more interested in lining it's own pockets.

Agreed. I think the guilty parties become more culpable as you go further up the chain of command.

limerickman said:

I blame the UCI.

It's the UCI who set the context in which the sport takes place.
I think that they're the guilty party.

The civil authorities in Spain/France/Italy have shown just what was really going on.
If they hadn't uncovered the reality, we'd still have the UCI telling us that cycling is doing all it can to eradicate the problem.
Neither they or the sport were doing anywhere near enough to eradicate anything.

The UCI's more interested in lining it's own pockets.

I am not sure that they line their pockets but are certainly trying make a name for themselves in hopes of making money in the future with the increased fame.

Is all about the money! Win at all costs! Sponsors will look the other way for the right results, all long as the publicity is not too loud.

You left out the obvious choice - all of the above.

It starts with the UCI and WADA. They're supposed to be the watchdogs. If they don't watch, then it becomes a free for all. They didn't watch. Pound was too obsessed with Armstrong to notice half the pro peloton trouping to the same doctor. UCI just didn't want to be bothered with doping - it interfered with the race schedule and revenue stream.

The sponsors didn't know. The fans didn't care. The DS's didn't want to get behind. Actually, after hearing the excuses from Basso, Landis, Heras, Hamilton, etc... I don't think the riders are scheming as much as they are gutless. They didn't have the courage to walk away from the sport when doping went wild, and they don't have the courage to admit it now.

My friend Verbruggen and his guys need to go to la guillotine!😄

poulidor said:

My friend Verbruggen and his guys need to go to la guillotine!😄

+1

Much of this is Verbruggen's fault. That's one guy who should get a lifetime ban for sheer incompetence.

Bro Deal said:

+1

Much of this is Verbruggen's fault. That's one guy who should get a lifetime ban for sheer incompetence.

Not incompetence, just because of his more love for money than sport and honesty!

poulidor said:

Not incompetence, just because of his more love for money than sport and honesty!

I think he displays the same sort of stupidity that you find in American corporate types. They never look at the long term or they just don't care because they won't be around when the [censored] hits the fan.

tasmart said:

Is all about the money! Win at all costs! Sponsors will look the other way for the right results, all long as the publicity is not too loud.

Tas? Ever ski Bridger Bowl?

jhuskey said:

Tas? Ever ski Bridger Bowl?

A great many times. its really nice. Have a locker and season pass there.

tasmart said:

A great many times. its really nice. Have a locker and season pass there.

I haven't been out west in a while the last time was Summit County but they use to hold an avalanche training course at Bridger when I was a member of the National Ski Patrol.
You got to carry charges and fire a 105 at the cornices. Big fun.
Oh well, back on topic.

Only one of those poll choices could stop the doping just by saying no. The riders. I'm not saying that there isn't a lot of angles to this thing -- Lim nails a lot of the higher level people in his post -- just saying that none of the other choices matter if the riders stop acting like children and race with integrity.

Money is not by itself evil but it certainly fuels the fire. I believe if you trace the money trail you will find the root of the problem.

poulidor said:

My friend Verbruggen and his guys need to go to la guillotine!😄

......closely followed by McQuaid.

I said it before, McQuaid's appointment to the role of UCI chief was never going to bring about change.
He's as bad as Verbruggen.

I respect Pat as a coach - he trained our team for 5 years and he did a great job and I get on well with him on a personal level.
He's a decent bloke.
But he was never going to be the reformer that the UCI needs now.

limerickman said:

......closely followed by McQuaid.

I said it before, McQuaid's appointment to the role of UCI chief was never going to bring about change.
He's as bad as Verbruggen.

I respect Pat as a coach - he trained our team for 5 years and he did a great job and I get on well with him on a personal level.
He's a decent bloke.
But he was never going to be the reformer that the UCI needs now.

McQuaid is probably totally [censored] at Verbruggen now... McQuaid thought he'd have an easy ride in the job and all has had to do is pretend he is fighting doping !