Who Do You Trust

Quoted message said:

Subject: Who Do You Trust
From: "Dave" [email hidden]
Date: 10/2/2003 11:51 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't trust each
other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or God. What is it
they
stand for?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

In article <[email hidden]>,

(doe) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Who Do You Trust
From: "Dave" [email hidden]
Date: 10/2/2003 11:51 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't trust each
other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or God. What is it
they
stand for?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Actually, you appear to be confused. The above would be what Glowlife
Dave trusts. After all, he is the one making wildly exaggerated claims
for his ginseng in order to promote his MLM scheme and line his pockets.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

Do you trust the guy who made the false claim that
shipments of his ginseng had passed without any
residues since April 2001?

Dave the Spammer said:

Since April 2001 every order (several million cans) is randomly
tested by an independant lab and has passed without any
residues and is landed, sold and been helping people.

NOT TRUE. There was an action against a shipment that
failed the admissibility requirements in May of this year.

Quoting from this file:
http://www.fda.gov/ora/oasis/5/ora_oasis_i_54.html

(Follow the link to see the whole, unedited file.)

************* BEGIN QUOTED FILE ************

Refusal Actions by FDA as Recorded in OASIS

Country of Origin Entry # DOC Line Suffix
Manufacture Name
City / ISO Country Code District
Product Code Product Description
Date Reason

******** STUFF DELETED ***********

Taiwan, Republic Of China 310-5216341-2 1 1
Bing Han Enterprises Ltdpharmaceutical Factory
Tainan , TW CIN-DO
54YBZ04 PANAX GINSENG, PERSONAL SHIPMENT
02-MAY-2003 PESTICIDES

******** STUFF DELETED ***********

Do you trust the guy who falsely claimed that
ginseng can't harm you?

Dave the Spammer said:

Ginseng is food. It cannot harm you or conflict with medications,
because it is food.

THAT IS NOT TRUE. Quoting from:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~smb4v/pedpharm/v4n5.htm

Ginseng is contraindicated in asthma, renal failure, Stage 2 or
higher hypertension, acute inflammatory or infectious diseases,
bronchitis and emphysema, chronic diseases of the gastrointestinal
tract (i.e., diverticulitis, gastroesophageal reflux disease),
heart failure, arrhythmias, edema, insomnia, anxiety, pregnancy,
and breast-feeding. Reported adverse effects of ginseng include
insomnia, nervousness, excitation, diarrhea, and skin disorders.

Little is known about drug interactions with ginseng; however,
the literature contains two case reports describing ginseng drug
interactions. A patient previously well controlled on warfarin
therapy experienced a loss of anticoagulant control (subtherapeutic
INR) after the initiation of ginseng. In addition, a patient
taking both ginseng and digoxin experienced an elevated digoxin
level. Because objective scientific data documenting therapeutic
benefits of ginseng are lacking, the role of ginseng as a
legitimate therapeutic agent is neither established nor accepted
by the medical community.

Do you trust the guy who falsely claimed that
every other ginseng supplier was also on the
list for pesticide residues?

Dave the Spammer said:

Every single ginseng manufacturer who imports into the U.S. has been on the
import alert
list for pesticide residues. I know you will be upset or embarrassed or
nothing but this
doesn't bar entry its just an alert. Every brand being sold in Amertica has
been on the list.
The brand that Thorson bought was on the list.

NOT TRUE. I just checked the list, and it's not
there. Also, I should point out that of the other
ginseng suppliers on the list for having pesticides,
they don't have as many as Bing Han. Below,
I've copied the three above and the five below
Bing Han in the Canadian section of the list.
Each one only has 1 to 4 pesticide residues listed.
Bing Han has 8! Got that? 8 pesticide residues!

In the Taiwan section of the list, Bing Han is
the only ginseng supplier listed. If every ginseng
supplier were on this list, then surely there would
be at least a few other Taiwanese companies
listed there.

Quoting from:
http://www.fda.gov/ora/fiars/ora_import_ia9908.html

Ginseng, dried Kettle Mountain Ginseng Pentachloroani- 3/28/03
54F[][]12 Co., Ltd. Line, Quintozene,
163-0078288-1 2850 Dunster Road Pentachlorobenzene
MIN-DO Kelowna, Canada
FEI# 3003881022

Ginseng Root American Ginseng Quintozene 3/4/98
(Dried) Enterprises
211-6236299-6 Suite 3B
I149761 - SEA 7218 Progress Way
54F[]T12 Delta, British Columbia
Canada V4G 1H2
FEI# 3001265028

Ginseng SISU Enterprises Co., Ltd. Pentachloro- 11/9/98
Phytosome 1049 Brighton Avenue aniline
110-9061832-1 Burnaby, B.C., Canada
I 190745/31330 FEI# 3002345819
54F-E12 - SEA

Ginseng Bing Han Medical Factory Quintozene 3/13/2001
(Powdered) 81, Cherng Gong Street *Pentachlorobenzene
211-9414883-5 Ell Jeun Village, Taiwan *Tetrachloroaniline
I290230/120531 FEI# 3003196781 *Hexachlorobenzene
54F[]R12 - SEA *BHC
Shipper: Bing Han (Canada) *Pentachloroaniline
Enterprises. Ltd. *Tecnazene
210-7911 Alderbridge Way *Pentachlorothioanisole
Richmond B.C., Canada
FEI# 3003196782

Ginseng powder Chai Na Ta Corp. Quintozine/ 12/22/98
54F[][]12 5965-205 A St. Pentachloroaniline/
211-6340591-9 Langley, Canada Pentachlorophenyl-
SEA-DO FEI# 1000495768 methylsulfide

Ginseng Powder Banner Pharmacaps Canada Quintozene 10/30/2000
300-8281660-1 5807 47th Avenue Technazene
1274423/106795 Olds, Alberta, Canada T4H1S7
54B[]Z12 - SEA FEI# 3002669285

Ginseng Imperial Ginseng Distributors PCB 12/9/98
445-0575420-8 650 West Georgia Street PCNB
I 193215/33884 Vancouver, B.C., Canada PCA
54F[][]12 - SEA FEI# 3000067061 pp'DDE

Ginseng Roots Canada Phytopharmaceuti- PCB 11/20/98
Powder cals Co. Quintozene
144-6157331-4 13520 Crestwood Place PCA
I 190565/31181 Richmond, B.C., Canada
54F[][]12 - SEA FEI# 3001574072

Ginseng Root Chai-Na-Ta Corp PCNB 5/18/99
(Dry Cultivated 5965 205A Street TCNB
American) - Langley, B.C., Canada V3A 8C4
211-6381683-4 FEI# 1000495768
47317/I207403
54F[]Y12 - SEA

"doe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Who Do You Trust
From: "Dave" [email hidden]
Date: 10/2/2003 11:51 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't trust

each

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or God. What is it
they
stand for?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Quoted message said:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Thanks for clarifying that. Now explain it to Mark Thorson. He didn't seem
to
understand the question and wandered off into the wilderness alone.

Orac said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(doe) said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Who Do You Trust
From: "Dave" [email hidden]
Date: 10/2/2003 11:51 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't trust

each

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or God. What is it
they
stand for?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Actually, you appear to be confused. The above would be what Glowlife
Dave trusts. After all, he is the one making wildly exaggerated claims
for his ginseng in order to promote his MLM scheme and line his pockets.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."

Let's not forget, H*lda Cl*rk, who sues for monetary damages, not for
defamation. Isn't it a shame that one can research _MOST_ alt-methods by
simply following the money.

Sad, that.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't
trust each other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or
God. What is it they stand for?

Truth, justice, and the American Way.

We mostly trust each other, and we're often OK with the medical
establishment. We're pretty skeptical of AM (and often CM) and
I don't think we have a consensus on God.

We all agree that we don't trust self-promoting scumbags like
Spammin' Dave.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Who Do You Trust
From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
Date: 10/2/2003 3:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't
trust each other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or
God. What is it they stand for?

Truth, justice, and the American Way

Lies, (and not giving a damn, if their buddies lie) no justice and the American
way is starting kids on drugs early. Altering minds.

Quoted message said:

We mostly trust each other, and we're often OK with the medical
establishment

Well, no. Alternative medicine just keeps growing, people are very dissatified
with the medical establishment.

Quoted message said:

We're pretty skeptical of AM (and often CM)

That's an understatement, but very few if any of the debunkers have ever been
to an alternative practitioner.

Therefore they are sock puppets, of organized medicine and have not a clue.

Quoted message said:

I don't think we have a consensus on God.

Think again. Stop and count the atheists, and those who don't believe God is
the father of Jesus.

Quoted message said:

We all agree that we don't trust self-promoting scumbags like
Spammin' Dave.

We meaning the debunkers. David is recharging his obsession to say scumbag and
spamming.

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Who Do You Trust
From: "Dave" [email hidden]
Date: 10/2/2003 12:41 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"doe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Who Do You Trust
From: "Dave" [email hidden]
Date: 10/2/2003 11:51 AM Mountain Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't trust

each

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or God. What is it
they
stand for?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Quoted message said:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Thanks for clarifying that. Now explain it to Mark Thorson. He didn't seem
to
understand the question and wandered off into the wilderness alone.

Mark Thorson is a lackey for Barrett, a liar who has to make retractions, and a
repeated poster of the repeated that has been repeated, repeatedly.

Jan

Jan the Accuser said:

Mark Thorson is a lackey for Barrett, a liar who has to make retractions, and a
repeated poster of the repeated that has been repeated, repeatedly.

I asked you to provide an example of one of these LIES
you claim I told, and you have not been able to do so.

Why is that, Jan? Why can't you provide EVEN ONE
example of one of these LIES you claim I told?

I've never deleted anything off of Google (despite your
false accusation that I did). If there were a LIE, it's
still there. Why don't you provide an example of one
of these LIES you claim I told?

You have claimed that I lied about Cell Tech
or their algae in a statement that used the word
"delibrately". Why don't we start with that one,
Jan. Why don't you post that statement, and
show everybody this statement that you claim
is a LIE?

Why don't you do that, Jan?

Dave the Liar said:

Thanks for clarifying that. Now explain it to Mark Thorson. He didn't seem
to
understand the question and wandered off into the wilderness alone.

You brought up the question.

I merely pointed out some of the lies you have
told in an attempt to sell your inferior ginseng:

1. That all shipments had passed for pesticides
since April 2001 -- Not True !!!

2. That ginseng can't harm anyone -- Not True !!!

3. That all other ginseng suppliers were on the
pesticide list -- Not True !!!

How can anyone believe anything you say,
when there is rock-solid documentation that
you have told so many lies to sell your ginseng?

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't trust

each

Quoted message said:

other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or God. What is it
they stand for?

Yeah, drag that, eh? But that's how knowledge is created. Otherwise it's
just the best story that gets t"trusted". And that leads to, well, people
listening to whoever has the best sales pitch. Which, I presume, is the way
you'd like it to be.

le moo

In said:

Jan the Accuser said:

Mark Thorson is a lackey for Barrett, a liar who has to make retractions, and a
repeated poster of the repeated that has been repeated, repeatedly.

I asked you to provide an example of one of these LIES
you claim I told, and you have not been able to do so.

In <[email hidden]>, Jan lied:

# I always prove my claims.

--
| "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a |
| completely unintentional side effect. " -- Linus Torvalds |
+--------------- D. C. Sessions <[email hidden]> ----------+

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't
trust each other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or
God. What is it they stand for?

Truth, justice, and the American Way.

We mostly trust each other, and we're often OK with the medical
establishment. We're pretty skeptical of AM (and often CM) and
I don't think we have a consensus on God.

We all agree that we don't trust self-promoting scumbags like
Spammin' Dave.

-- David Wright

Hear, hear; Preach-on, Brother Wright!

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

is a lackey for Barrett, a liar who has to make retractions, and a
repeated poster of the repeated that has been repeated, repeatedly.

You have said that several times.

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't
trust each other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or
God. What is it they stand for?

Truth, justice, and the American Way.

Peter B and Peter M trust the Autralian way.

Quoted message said:

We mostly trust each other, and we're often OK with the medical
establishment. We're pretty skeptical of AM (and often CM) and
I don't think we have a consensus on God.

We all agree that we don't trust self-promoting scumbags like
Spammin' Dave.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Think again. Stop and count the atheists, and those who don't believe God

is

Quoted message said:

the father of Jesus.

Didn't your version of G-d say something about judge not, lest ye be judged?

Jan Drew wailed and lied through her gnashing teeth:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Who Do You Trust
From: [email hidden] (David Wright)
Date: 10/2/2003 3:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dave said:

As near as I can determine the world famous "pack o' fools" don't
trust each other, the medical establishment, alternative medicine or
God. What is it they stand for?

Truth, justice, and the American Way

Lies, (and not giving a damn, if their buddies lie) no justice and the
American
way is starting kids on drugs early. Altering minds.

Quoted message said:

We mostly trust each other, and we're often OK with the medical
establishment

Well, no. Alternative medicine just keeps growing, people are very
dissatified
with the medical establishment.

Quoted message said:

We're pretty skeptical of AM (and often CM)

That's an understatement, but very few if any of the debunkers have ever been
to an alternative practitioner.

Tsu _IS_ an alt-practitioner, Michele is an LMT, and Andrew is an
acupuncturist. Many of the MHA skeptics have been to massage therapists,
Chiros, and a few to Acupuncturists. Many have tried homoepathy, ear candling,
yoga, as well as suppliments.

Jan is clearly lying when she says that "few if any of the debunkers have ever
been to an alternative practitioner". The debunkers speak from _Personal
Experience_ as well as from the dispassionate view point of SCIENCE.

Quoted message said:

Therefore they are sock puppets, of organized medicine and have not a clue.

Quoted message said:

I don't think we have a consensus on God.

Think again. Stop and count the atheists, and those who don't believe God is
the father of Jesus.

The only reason to "count" or otherwise single people out based on religious
beliefs is Bigotry. Jan Drew has personal experience as a long-term, pious
hypocrite and bigot.