Which tyres for snow cycling.

"Martin Dann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have three types of tyres in my garage, a pair of knobblies lying on the
floor, a pair of sport contacts on one bike, and the other fitted with city
slickers. (No suspension on either bike).

Should it snow in the next few weeks, which would be best for on road and
shared facility commuting.

Am I right in thinking one of the sets of slicks at a reduced air
pressure?

btw this is in Bristol and south Gloucestershire so we are only likely to
get a few inches at most. Also I commute to work after the rush hour so
there is a good chance I will be cycling in either muddy slush or packed
snow.
The commute home is always after 9pm, so there is a chance of ice then.

I remember cycling to school in the snow one day. Fortunately my dad was
doing a bit of cyclocross at the time, so I nicked the back wheel of that
bike. I had a friend who was always stronger and faster than me - that day,
with the knobbly back tyre, I left him for dead.

This was quite a skinny, small knobbed tyre - nothing like the 2.1"
monstrosities the MTB tandem has on it. The front was still a normal slick.
The main gain was going uphill - I actually got grip. I remember spending
most of my time on the other side of the road, overtaking the traffic jam,
and every so often I'd have to cut through the pile of slush back onto my
side of the road as something came the other way. Forward motion is the way
to keep control, so I think having some grip on my driving wheel helped
quite a lot.

If you're riding in anything with traffic, you'll be in normal slush on
tarmac - any normal slick will do. The knobbly bit only came into play when
going through yer actual piles of wet snow. I wouldn't drop the tyre
pressure. You'll obviously need to ride in the tyre tracks, and be very
careful about having cars behind you at tricky bits - you don't want to come
off and then get run over. I would also cycle on the roads if I was after an
easy commuting trip - I'd be avoiding anything which hadn't been salted and
trafficed unless I was after some fun.

Or you could just take the day off and go sledging :-)

cheers,
clive

Martin Dann wrote on 23/01/2007 00:05 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I have three types of tyres in my garage, a pair of knobblies lying on
the floor, a pair of sport contacts on one bike, and the other fitted
with city slickers. (No suspension on either bike).

Should it snow in the next few weeks, which would be best for on road
and shared facility commuting.

Am I right in thinking one of the sets of slicks at a reduced air pressure?

btw this is in Bristol and south Gloucestershire so we are only likely
to get a few inches at most. Also I commute to work after the rush hour
so there is a good chance I will be cycling in either muddy slush or
packed snow.
The commute home is always after 9pm, so there is a chance of ice then.

Martin.

Go for the knobblies. In the conditions you cite, the knobs will bite
into the slush or snow to get grip, the same as in mud whereas the
slicks will slip and slide, even at low pressure. I've ridden quite a
lot in snow in knobblies and they do pretty well whereas when I've tried
slicks, they can spin out on the rear wheel at quite low pedal pressures.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Martin Dann said:

I have three types of tyres in my garage, a pair of knobblies lying on
the floor, a pair of sport contacts on one bike, and the other fitted
with city slickers. (No suspension on either bike).

Should it snow in the next few weeks, which would be best for on road
and shared facility commuting.

Go for the most puncture-resistant. No fun mending flats in freezing
slush.

My hunch would be knobblies, but what do I know!!

SW

POHB said:

Martin Dann said:

I have three types of tyres in my garage, a pair of knobblies lying on
the floor, a pair of sport contacts on one bike, and the other fitted
with city slickers. (No suspension on either bike).

Should it snow in the next few weeks, which would be best for on road
and shared facility commuting.

Go for the most puncture-resistant. No fun mending flats in freezing
slush.

Be aware of the increased risk of out of control
motor vehicles possibly intersecting your path.
Every driver knows that they have the right to
drive on snow and ice covered roads in the same manner
as they do every other day.

As to the tyres:-

It won't make any difference. As you will know if you read
about the crash in Wales this winter where 4 cyclists were killed
by a car with treadless tyres that the driver lost control of
on ice. The police accident investigator said that the illegally
treadless tyres were not a contributory factor to the crash.

If I were you:-

I would go for the knobblies as a first cut however ideally
you should try them all out.

I have a lot of experiance with car tyres on snow and ice and
the only sure thing is that there is (well was - this was a while back)
a massive difference between different makes and models.

The only performance pattern I ever discerned was
good in wet == bad on snow/ice --- sometimes

The tyre tread material is very important.

Unless you get tyres made for the job by a reputable
manufacturer then you will have to try them all out.
Do Nokian do bike tyres. That would be the
place to start if they do.

I recall a peculiar occasion when I got stuck
and the car wouldn't move due to a lack of traction.
I couldn't understand it since it was nearly flat.
Then I realised that these particular remoulds
were the worst snow tyres that I had ever
encountered and got out and pushed.
That's right, it wouldn't move itself
yet I, on my own, a 7 stone weakling,
(well the weakling is true) could push the 1 ton car.

I had to wedge myself in the door frame and
press against the road to get enough traction
but I was able to move it far enough uphill
to get off the slight incline and then drive away.

[email hidden] wrote on 23/01/2007 09:01 +0100:

Quoted message said:

It won't make any difference. As you will know if you read
about the crash in Wales this winter where 4 cyclists were killed
by a car with treadless tyres that the driver lost control of
on ice. The police accident investigator said that the illegally
treadless tyres were not a contributory factor to the crash.

And you believe them?

Quoted message said:

I have a lot of experiance with car tyres on snow and ice and
the only sure thing is that there is (well was - this was a while back)
a massive difference between different makes and models.

The softness of the tread compound at low temperatures is the biggest
factor and one of the main ones that goes into ice tyre design.

Quoted message said:

Unless you get tyres made for the job by a reputable
manufacturer then you will have to try them all out.
Do Nokian do bike tyres. That would be the
place to start if they do.

Yes they do and they even do studded bicycle tyres. Unfortunately
no-one does the very effective carborundum impregnated soft rubber ice
tyres that have been developed for cars.

Quoted message said:

I recall a peculiar occasion when I got stuck
and the car wouldn't move due to a lack of traction.

Quite often in those situations (and it can work on a bike too),
applying the handbrake helps a lot. It provides a resistance greater
than the road tyre interface for the differential to work against. You
thereby get a crude limited slip differential which prevents the usual
problem of one tyre losing grip and spinning out. On a bicycle it helps
to prevent momentary losses of friction leading to spinning out as it
prevents the wheel gaining speed quickly. Actually the best bikes for
icy roads are fixed wheel for similar reasons.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Bod 43 saidificated:

Quoted message said:

yet I, [..] a 7 stone weakling

7 stone? Isn't that under the UCI weight limit for riders? 😉

Tony Raven said the following on 23/01/2007 09:12:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote on 23/01/2007 09:01 +0100:
The police accident investigator said that the illegally

Quoted message said:

treadless tyres were not a contributory factor to the crash.

And you believe them?

I read Bod's comment as being sarcastic. :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote on 23/01/2007 09:01 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I recall a peculiar occasion when I got stuck
and the car wouldn't move due to a lack of traction.

Quite often in those situations (and it can work on a bike too), applying
the handbrake helps a lot. It provides a resistance greater than the road
tyre interface for the differential to work against. You thereby get a
crude limited slip differential which prevents the usual problem of one
tyre losing grip and spinning out. On a bicycle it helps to prevent
momentary losses of friction leading to spinning out as it prevents the
wheel gaining speed quickly. Actually the best bikes for icy roads are
fixed wheel for similar reasons.

Apart from RWD cars, the only car this works on is the old square nose SAAB
900 and 99s. Everyone else in a FWD car will have to try and make do with
left foot braking. If they can manage it.

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote on 23/01/2007 09:01 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I recall a peculiar occasion when I got stuck
and the car wouldn't move due to a lack of traction.

Quite often in those situations (and it can work on a bike too), applying
the handbrake helps a lot. It provides a resistance greater than the
road tyre interface for the differential to work against. You thereby
get a crude limited slip differential which prevents the usual problem of
one tyre losing grip and spinning out. On a bicycle it helps to prevent
momentary losses of friction leading to spinning out as it prevents the
wheel gaining speed quickly. Actually the best bikes for icy roads are
fixed wheel for similar reasons.

Apart from RWD cars, the only car this works on is the old square nose
SAAB 900 and 99s. Everyone else in a FWD car will have to try and make do
with left foot braking. If they can manage it.

Not everyone else :-) (there's a very good reason for it on the one I drive)

cheers,
clive

Doki said the following on 23/01/2007 10:04:

Quoted message said:

Apart from RWD cars, the only car this works on is the old square nose
SAAB 900 and 99s. Everyone else in a FWD car will have to try and make
do with left foot braking. If they can manage it.

....which is quite tricky if you're balancing the clutch with your left
foot at the same time! Not impossible though.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

In article <[email hidden]>, Martin Dann
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have three types of tyres in my garage, a pair of knobblies lying on
the floor, a pair of sport contacts on one bike, and the other fitted
with city slickers. (No suspension on either bike).

Should it snow in the next few weeks, which would be best for on road
and shared facility commuting.

Am I right in thinking one of the sets of slicks at a reduced air pressure?

btw this is in Bristol and south Gloucestershire so we are only likely
to get a few inches at most. Also I commute to work after the rush hour
so there is a good chance I will be cycling in either muddy slush or
packed snow.
The commute home is always after 9pm, so there is a chance of ice then.

Go for the knobblies, and take your mudguards off unless you're prepared
to stop frequently and dig out the acumulated crud that will jam up your
rear wheel.
If it's just slush you could use the narrow slicks pumped up hard and
maybe get away with keeping the mudguards.
On ice nothing short of studded tyres will make much difference - hip
pads might help.

Clive George said:

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote on 23/01/2007 09:01 +0100:

Quoted message said:

> I recall a peculiar occasion when I got stuck
> and the car wouldn't move due to a lack of traction.

Quite often in those situations (and it can work on a bike too),
applying the handbrake helps a lot. It provides a resistance
greater than the road tyre interface for the differential to work
against. You thereby get a crude limited slip differential which
prevents the usual problem of one tyre losing grip and spinning
out. On a bicycle it helps to prevent momentary losses of friction
leading to spinning out as it prevents the wheel gaining speed
quickly. Actually the best bikes for icy roads are fixed wheel for
similar reasons.

Apart from RWD cars, the only car this works on is the old square
nose SAAB 900 and 99s. Everyone else in a FWD car will have to try
and make do with left foot braking. If they can manage it.

Not everyone else :-) (there's a very good reason for it on the one I
drive)

Not quite true: Anyone can put a big heavy weight it the boot of their car
and effectively shorten the wheelbase.

But there is one manufacturer whose cars do quite a lot more rising and
falling than the rest (save the prestige marques who licensed the
technology). My favourite bit is filling up with fuel, when it sinks
gradually under the weight until it reaches a threshold and then rises up
again.

A

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Martin Dann
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have three types of tyres in my garage, a pair of knobblies lying
on
the floor, a pair of sport contacts on one bike, and the other fitted
with city slickers. (No suspension on either bike).

Should it snow in the next few weeks, which would be best for on road
and shared facility commuting.

Am I right in thinking one of the sets of slicks at a reduced air
pressure?

btw this is in Bristol and south Gloucestershire so we are only
likely
to get a few inches at most. Also I commute to work after the rush
hour
so there is a good chance I will be cycling in either muddy slush or
packed snow.
The commute home is always after 9pm, so there is a chance of ice
then.

Go for the knobblies, and take your mudguards off unless you're
prepared to stop frequently and dig out the acumulated crud that will
jam up your rear wheel.

That said, if they're crud catchers, or if you've got any, that will make
travelling quite a lot pleasanter, depending on how slushy the snow you're
riding through is.

A

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Apart from RWD cars, the only car this works on is the old square
nose SAAB 900 and 99s. Everyone else in a FWD car will have to try
and make do with left foot braking. If they can manage it.

Not everyone else :-) (there's a very good reason for it on the one I
drive)

Not quite true: Anyone can put a big heavy weight it the boot of their car
and effectively shorten the wheelbase.

But there is one manufacturer whose cars do quite a lot more rising and
falling than the rest (save the prestige marques who licensed the
technology). My favourite bit is filling up with fuel, when it sinks
gradually under the weight until it reaches a threshold and then rises up
again.

Mine's not got anti-sink :-(

cheers,
clive

Doki said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quite often in those situations (and it can work on a bike too), applying
the handbrake helps a lot. .

Apart from RWD cars, the only car this works on is the old square nose SAAB
900 and 99s. Everyone else in a FWD car will have to try and make do with
left foot braking. If they can manage it.

This kind of sweeping statement will *always* catch you out on Usenet-
some smart-alec, somewhere in the world will know of an obscure
exception and trot it out, simply because they won't be able to stop
themselves...

Today, I am that smart-alec... and I bring you the Citroen 2CV, Ami
and Dyane... all of which have handbrakes acting on the front, driven
wheels. I expect there are others... I didn't know about the Saabs.

Funny how often the exceptions are Saab & Citroen...

I'm just going back to my dark little corner to lurk, once more...
hoping that someone will provide a link to an online seller of 700c
Hakkapeliittas :-)

Cheers,
W.

Quoted message said:

Today, I am that smart-alec... and I bring you the Citroen 2CV, Ami
and Dyane... all of which have handbrakes acting on the front, driven
wheels. I expect there are others... I didn't know about the Saabs.

Funny how often the exceptions are Saab & Citroen...

Ooo! ooo! Can I join in & mention Land Rovers with their crazy handbrake on the
driveshaft :P

--
Stephen Patterson :: [email hidden] :: http://patter.mine.nu/
GPG: B416F0DE :: Jabber: [email hidden]
"Don't be silly, Minnie. Who'd be walking round these cliffs with a gas oven?"

Quoted message said:

I'm just going back to my dark little corner to lurk, once more...
hoping that someone will provide a link to an online seller of 700c
Hakkapeliittas :-)

Don't know of any, but then again I do have a pair of 559 w106 in the
garage. I have ridden the A10 in 622 and 559.

Quoted message said:

From my experience:

Go for the knobblies. Any thickness of snow and slicks are no fun at
all.

On ice, knobblies will be a bit more forgiving than slicks, but only
just (There are numerous contact points to lose grip rather than just
one.

Nothing beats studs on ice. Except walking with crampons. If you are
serious about riding on ice, the tyres are well worth it and they last
a long time.

WRT the studless winter tyres for cars, the need for this comes from
tyres destroying the road surface. Bike tyres don't have the same
damaging effect (quantitatively) so studs are fine. The studless tyres
do wear very quickly on dry road.

...d

David Martin said:

Quoted message said:

I'm just going back to my dark little corner to lurk, once more...
hoping that someone will provide a link to an online seller of 700c
Hakkapeliittas :-)

Don't know of any, but then again I do have a pair of 559 w106 in the
garage. I have ridden the A10 in 622 and 559.

Aha! Just found one myself:

http://www.bonthronebikes.co.uk/97-7385

Schwalbe & Nokian both make carbide-studded winter tyres. I expect
they are the best answer for the OP, though I can't speak from personal
experience... yet.

Cheers,
W.