Which Time Intervals for Monod?

LT Intolerant said:

When I use the Monod method for estimating FTP I get different results based on the time intervals (e.g., 3, 6 & 12 mins vs. 6, 12, 30 mins). I've read somewhere that one should not use less than 3 mins, but is there a standard set of time intervals that I should be using? My other question is what time intervals are others using and why?

Thx much! - gene r

5/20 much preferred for me. Make sure they're max efforts.

rmur17 said:

5/20 much preferred for me. Make sure they're max efforts.

I get good numbers with 3 and 12'

mr_mojo said:

I get good numbers with 3 and 12'

Aren't you supposed to use 3 numbers/intervals? Also, do you do your efforts on the same day or do you cherry pick best times over the past week, month, etc? Thanks for the input thus far.

LT Intolerant said:

Aren't you supposed to use 3 numbers/intervals? Also, do you do your efforts on the same day or do you cherry pick best times over the past week, month, etc? Thanks for the input thus far.

lots of discussion on this thread:

cyclingforums.comt449893.htmlOpen ↗

rmur17 said:

lots of discussion on this thread:

cyclingforums.comt449893.htmlOpen ↗

very helpful on the 2 vs 3 data points but still leaves unanswered the question around collecting all data points on one day or cherry picking best data points over the course of time.

I prefer to take my points for Monod from a close time frame, maybe a week or two, maybe one day. Longer than a few weeks and things start getting blurry about what time period the estimations apply to.

As for duration, for me it's a question of long enough that AWC isn't dominating the picture and short enough that it's truly an all-out effort. I typically take my data points from races or the occasional group ride smackdown and, unless it's a TT or a very long hill, they seldom exceed 15m. If I want my FTP to look big, I'll pick shorter durations, longer ones if I want my CTL to look big. 😉

peterpen said:

I prefer to take my points for Monod from a close time frame, maybe a week or two, maybe one day. Longer than a few weeks and things start getting blurry about what time period the estimations apply to.

As for duration, for me it's a question of long enough that AWC isn't dominating the picture and short enough that it's truly an all-out effort. I typically take my data points from races or the occasional group ride smackdown and, unless it's a TT or a very long hill, they seldom exceed 15m. If I want my FTP to look big, I'll pick shorter durations, longer ones if I want my CTL to look big. 😉

Many thanks Peter. I guess I'll get the REAL story on my FTP whe I see Dario (actually John H) next week! 😄 :eek: - gene r

I've been using three of 3, 5, 7, or 20 minute durations, depending on what's going on the week of test. I try to get all my tests done in 48 hours if I'm feeling fresh.

waterrockets said:

I've been using three of 3, 5, 7, or 20 minute durations, depending on what's going on the week of test. I try to get all my tests done in 48 hours if I'm feeling fresh.

Thanks. Do you use other methods to test (e.g., 1 hr TT or 2 x 20's * 95%), and if so, how closely does your FTP from the other testing method match what you get when you use Monod?

LT Intolerant said:

Thanks. Do you use other methods to test (e.g., 1 hr TT or 2 x 20's * 95%), and if so, how closely does your FTP from the other testing method match what you get when you use Monod?

I've only used Monod so far, but it seems to align with power distribution analysis (big drop-off after FTP). It also lines up with RPE just about perfectly.

Also, all the points in the Monod curve from 5 to 20 minutes appear to be spot-on for pacing. I'm really just using FTP for zone setting and as a tracking reference, so actual 60-minute performance isn't to important to me. I'll do one 40k TT this year, and I'll use the Monod FTP-5W as the target for the first 20 minutes, and see how I feel at that point.

LT Intolerant said:

Thanks. Do you use other methods to test (e.g., 1 hr TT or 2 x 20's * 95%), and if so, how closely does your FTP from the other testing method match what you get when you use Monod?

Seems like an appropriate place for the "Seven Deadly Sins":

...er, ways of determining your functional threshold power (roughly in
order of increasing certainty):

1) from inspection of a ride file.
2) from power distribution profile from multiple rides.
3) from blood lactate measurements (better or worse, depending on how it
is done).
4) based on normalized power from a hard ~1 h race.
5) using critical power testing and analysis.
6) from the power that you can routinely generate during long intervals
done in training.
7) from the average power during a ~1 h TT (the best predictor of
performance is performance itself).

Note the key words "hard", "routinely", and "average" in methods 4, 6,
and 7...

Dave

dkrenik said:

Seems like an appropriate place for the "Seven Deadly Sins"

Thanks Dave. I feel like I should go to confession, and I'm not even Catholic, as I've committed all those sins in search of an ego-boosting FTP.

Is Thou Shall Not Lust After an Unrealistic FTP the 11th Commandment? I didn't get past the 5th in Sunday School due to ADHD! 😄