which pump to get?

Two, but that is not the correct question. I am not the one needing to
be bailed, I am the one doing the bailing. Find too many folks, far
from home, out of CO2 and a tire with little or no air. Problem with
CO2 is once you shoot your wad you have no way to recover if you
continue to have problems. Fine if there is a bus stop or train
station handy, not so bad if you are 13 miles up the hill, out of cell
range, and are looking at 3-4 hours if duck-walking in your cycling
shoes. A truly small pump will at least give you a chance of riding
out, even if you have to stop occasionally and top off the tire.

BTW, I have been stuck myself, miles from home in a downpour. That is
why I now carry enough to get me home in most cases - and that includes
tools to fix chain problems.

- rick

Quoted message said:

Problem with
CO2 is once you shoot your wad you have no way to recover if you
continue to have problems.

This is one of those arguments that gets repeated ad infinitum without
much real thought.

Should you carry an extra pump in case your pump breaks?
Should you carry an extra tire in case you get an unbootable gash?
Should you always pack an extra brake cable?

The liklihood of needing three CO2 carts on the same ride is less than
needing a whole new tire in my experience.

--
My bike blog:
http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

Quoted message said:

Two, but that is not the correct question. I am not the one needing

to

Quoted message said:

be bailed, I am the one doing the bailing. Find too many folks, far
from home, out of CO2 and a tire with little or no air. Problem with
CO2 is once you shoot your wad you have no way to recover if you
continue to have problems. Fine if there is a bus stop or train
station handy, not so bad if you are 13 miles up the hill, out of

cell

Quoted message said:

range, and are looking at 3-4 hours if duck-walking in your cycling
shoes. A truly small pump will at least give you a chance of riding
out, even if you have to stop occasionally and top off the tire.

BTW, I have been stuck myself, miles from home in a downpour. That

is

Quoted message said:

why I now carry enough to get me home in most cases - and that

includes

Quoted message said:

tools to fix chain problems.

- rick

The question was semi rhetorical. And certainly not accusatory. My only
point is that there are a number of lmiters--tubes, patches, etc. as
well as air. So yes a good pump has almost infinite capacity relative
to a CO2 cartridge. But if you run out of tubes, patches, etc having
more air won't help.
And sure if part of your goal is to be able to help others then a pump
is superior. But if your main goals are to be self sufficient and
efficient then I feel that a CO2 inflator is a great choice.
FWIW I have not used a frame pump (although I often have one) in the
past ten years and have never been stranded. CO2 has worked fine for my
all too many flats.

Well, since I find 1-2 stranded cyclists/month who ran out of CO2
methinks that there are quite a few folks who do not carry sufficient
air capacity. So I think the experience of the world I view is that
far too many cyclists out-run their capacity for air.

The rest of your examples are in another league. Pump breakage is so
rare relative to folks running out of CO2 it is another universe of
probabilities. Unbootable gashes are also relatively rare, though more
common than broken pumps. A broken brake cable is not a big deal unless
one has insufficient brake capacity for the terrain - most bikes have
redundancy in this regard. All these are ridiculous extensions of the
CO2 discussions - they are rare, folks running out of CO2 is relatively
common. One lives with the consequences of rare events, one plans for
the consequences of common events. If you want to keep the discussion
real, then at least give comparable examples - the one's you list are
not.

- rick

Quoted message said:

Well, since I find 1-2 stranded cyclists/month who ran out of CO2
methinks that there are quite a few folks who do not carry sufficient
air capacity.

My guess is that it is more a problem of folks not knowing how to use
an inflator rather than of capacity. Same thing with tubes. If folks
don't know how to properly change tubes they are much more likely to
re-flat almost immediately.

Look, there is no argument that a pump has far greater air capacity
than 1 or 2 cartridges. That is not in dispute. But there are
offsetting advantages, mainly concerning convenience, as well. So,
folks can make informed choices.
And as in other parts of life competence helps.

biketoolsect.com has a positive attachment german pump head for $4
for a truly religious experience.

Quoted message said:

Well, since I find 1-2 stranded cyclists/month who ran out of CO2
methinks that there are quite a few folks who do not carry sufficient
air capacity. So I think the experience of the world I view is that
far too many cyclists out-run their capacity for air.

Quoted message said:

- rick

Where do you ride, where you find this many stranded riders?

Life is Good!
Jeff

The only pump i've ever used that is a workable substitute for a floor
pump is zefal HPX. Now granted, i haven't used too many pumps, but
here are some of the ones i have used :

zefal hpx
zefal hp (= hpx in silver w/o frame fit, discontinued)
zefal solibloc (amazingly good)
zefal lapize
blackburn mountain
blackburn road
silca w/silca plastic head (the WORST pump on earth)

zefal double shot (floor pump)
schwinn deluxe (w/gauge)

not only that, but you can get a rebuild kit from www.xxcycle.com for
just about any zefal pump (actually xxcycle is zefal itself, running a
mail order shop in france.)

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

The only pump i've ever used that is a workable substitute for a floor
pump is zefal HPX. Now granted, i haven't used too many pumps, but
here are some of the ones i have used :

zefal hpx
zefal hp (= hpx in silver w/o frame fit, discontinued)
zefal solibloc (amazingly good)
zefal lapize
blackburn mountain - doesn't reach high pressures easily
blackburn road - pumps to high pressures too slowly
silca w/silca plastic head (the WORST pump on earth)

zefal double shot (floor pump)
schwinn deluxe (w/gauge)

You can get a zefal rebuild kit from many bike shops or from
www.xxcycle.com (actually xxcycle is zefal itself, running a large
mail order shop in france.) The Zefal HPX is a serious piece of
machinery, not a disposable toy like the pumps from most taiwanese
makers.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA