Which Peter?

Martin Dann said the following on 16/01/2007 22:22:

Quoted message said:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/reclaimtheroads/
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to fine motorists who
still drive when there a public transport alternative is available.

Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
confirm, my name never seemed to appear.

Typical government website, I suppose.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd <usenet.dont.work@plusnet>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/reclaimtheroads/

Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
confirm, my name never seemed to appear.

Try asking [email hidden] - if it bounces for some reason,
pass it to me and I'll resend. Posting complaints semi-anonymously to
usenet just won't work as well.

Regards,
--
MJR/slef

Paul Boyd said:

Martin Dann said the following on 16/01/2007 22:22:

Quoted message said:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/reclaimtheroads/
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to fine motorists who
still drive when there a public transport alternative is available.

Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
confirm, my name never seemed to appear.

Typical government website, I suppose.

This one works ....

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Cycles-on-Trains/

Dan Gregory said:

Paul Boyd said:

Martin Dann said the following on 16/01/2007 22:22:

Quoted message said:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/reclaimtheroads/
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to fine motorists who
still drive when there a public transport alternative is available.

Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
confirm, my name never seemed to appear.

Typical government website, I suppose.

This one works ....

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Cycles-on-Trains/

I disagree with that. Not the compulsory provision bit, but the free bit. I
genuinely fail to see why people making routine journeys should be able to
take up significant extra space at no cost.

I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid would
be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way, and thus ensure
that provision for cyclists was made convenient and easy to use.

(And yes, I am commuting by train and bike at the moment.)
--
A

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Dan Gregory said:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Cycles-on-Trains/

I disagree with that. Not the compulsory provision bit, but the free bit. I
genuinely fail to see why people making routine journeys should be able to
take up significant extra space at no cost.

I see your argument, but would you charge for bulky luggage as well?

Quoted message said:

I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid would
be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way, and thus ensure
that provision for cyclists was made convenient and easy to use.

Would it lead to greater provision, or merely serve to put off
cyclists?
I suspect the latter. Certainly, although I don't make many train
journeys
with my bike, I'd find such a supplement quite a disincentive.

John

Ambrose Nankivell wrote on 17/01/2007 14:34 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid would
be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way, and thus ensure
that provision for cyclists was made convenient and easy to use.

Would that also apply to people with suitcases or strollers?

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Ambrose Nankivell said the following on 17/01/2007 14:34:

Quoted message said:

I disagree with that. Not the compulsory provision bit, but the free bit. I
genuinely fail to see why people making routine journeys should be able to
take up significant extra space at no cost.

....whether bikes or oversize luggage?

Quoted message said:

I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid would
be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way, and thus ensure
that provision for cyclists was made convenient and easy to use.

Second hand experience tells me that often the problem is not
necessarily lack of provision for bikes, but that the space provided is
full of suitcases. If this space is meant for bikes, then I think it
should be prioritised for bikes, but where do people then put their huge
suitcases? It was easy in the old days of course - it all went in the
guards van!

I think 20-25% is a little high, but I agree that cyclists (or large
luggage owners) should not expect to get free transport for these items.
If it can't fit between the seat backs, it should be charged for. If
there is no space behind the seats, such as on bus style seating, then
the TOCs should be made to provide adequate luggage space as well as
adequate bike space. Just my opinion, and probably totally unworkable!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Tony Raven said:

Ambrose Nankivell wrote on 17/01/2007 14:34 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid
would be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way,
and thus ensure that provision for cyclists was made convenient and
easy to use.

Would that also apply to people with suitcases or strollers?

Well, you're allowed 2 suitcases and a bag, and by my reading, charges are
payable on strollers greater than 1m in any dimension. Full details in:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/luggage_animals.htm

As far as I'm concerned, if there's no advantage for the rail networks in
carrying bikes, then they'll carry on as it is, with you needing to put the
bike on the train and then get out and walk down to a passenger entrance in
many cases, or cheap as chips luggage hooks or seats that you have to ask
someone to vacate to put your bike in or any of the other things that make
travelling with a bike so much less convenient than travelling without it.

For people with strollers and suitcases, the propensity to take them is
limited by them being so inconvenient to carry around. Bikes are not the
same in this case.

Also, you were willing to shell out to get a Brompton at least in part to
take it on trains. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to take full size bikes on
trains as easily as that, and worth paying money for too?
--
A

Ambrose Nankivell said the following on 17/01/2007 17:12:

Quoted message said:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/luggage_animals.htm

Interesting reading! I wonder when they'll start enforcing it!

Quoted message said:

Also, you were willing to shell out to get a Brompton at least in part to
take it on trains. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to take full size bikes on
trains as easily as that, and worth paying money for too?

I used to take my bike on trains regularly up until about 19 years ago,
especially when it was very heavily laden with studenty stuff at the
beginning and end of terms, and there just weren't the problems we have
now. I guess it's called progress...

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd said:

Ambrose Nankivell said the following on 17/01/2007 17:12:

Quoted message said:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/luggage_animals.htm

Interesting reading! I wonder when they'll start enforcing it!

Quoted message said:

Also, you were willing to shell out to get a Brompton at least in
part to take it on trains. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to take
full size bikes on trains as easily as that, and worth paying money
for too?

I used to take my bike on trains regularly up until about 19 years
ago, especially when it was very heavily laden with studenty stuff at
the beginning and end of terms, and there just weren't the problems
we have now. I guess it's called progress...

It's not so much that it's difficult (at least for me), although obviously
guard's vans are pretty much a thing of the past, but that it's considerably
more effort than going without a bike, and needn't be.

AFAIR, it was at least as difficult 15 years ago as it is nowadays.

A

On 17/01/2007 09:15, MJ Ray said,

Quoted message said:

Try asking [email hidden] - if it bounces for some reason,
pass it to me and I'll resend. Posting complaints semi-anonymously to
usenet just won't work as well.

It was an observation, not a complaint. A complaint would imply it was
something I thought worth complaining about. Anyway, the confirmation
email just arrived, with the last half hour, having been sent at
12/01/07 18:48. I wonder if they PlusNet's email servers ;-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

On 17/01/2007 17:46, Ambrose Nankivell said,

Quoted message said:

AFAIR, it was at least as difficult 15 years ago as it is nowadays.

Maybe that narrows down when the rot set in :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Quoted message said:

Ambrose Nankivell wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd suggest a supplementary price of 20-25% on the ticket price paid would
be a sensible amount for bike space to actually pay its way, and thus ensure
that provision for cyclists was made convenient and easy to use.

Would it lead to greater provision, or merely serve to put off
cyclists?
I suspect the latter. Certainly, although I don't make many train
journeys
with my bike, I'd find such a supplement quite a disincentive.

Many years ago, they used to charge half fares for cycles. I had one
holiday where I bought a weeks Rover ticket for myself and a half fare
one for the bike. In those days the rail staff were extremely helpful
if you were taking a bike on the train - the helpfulness went when bikes
traveled free. Unfortunately, one suspects that charging for bikes
again wouldn't bring back that helpful attitude.

--
Andrew

Dan Gregory said:

Quoted message said:

Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
confirm, my name never seemed to appear.

Typical government website, I suppose.

Yeah, that's government databases for you - you're probably signed up
on that Home office one instead, in the 'gun runners, robbers and
thieves' section' ;- )

Blonde said:

Dan Gregory said:

Quoted message said:

Nice one! I've given up signing these though because they seemed to
have stopped sending me the confirmation emails. Even when I did
confirm, my name never seemed to appear.

Typical government website, I suppose.

Yeah, that's government databases for you - you're probably signed up
on that Home office one instead, in the 'gun runners, robbers and
thieves' section' ;- )

That wasn't me - I wrote a reply to the OP you have quoted..
;-))