Which monument is most important?

Chris said:

This question will never have a definitive answer

<snip>

Dumbass -

Yes it does.

Paris-Roubaix.

BOO on Paris-Roubaix
Selection made by bad quality roads? Lame

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

This question will never have a definitive answer

<snip>

Dumbass -

Yes it does.

Paris-Roubaix.

Chris said:

This question will never have a definitive answer but I thought I would like
to hear what the peanut gallery has to say about it.

Lombardia is my favorite but the calendar move means it can't really compare
in importance at this time. Milano - San Remo and Paris - Roubaix get more
publicity and each have their own challenges. I think that the Tour of
Flanders has enough cobblestones, hills and tough on form competitors to
make it probably the most important and difficult to win followed closely by
Liege - Bastogne - Liege. AFAIK they each have the same points awarded in
the UCI ranking and World Cup.

Tour of Flanders
Liege - Bastogne - Liege
Paris Roubaix
Milano - San Remo
Giro di Lomabardia

I would lean towards Liege. No real reason, just personal preference.

Quoted message said:

I suppose a follow up question would be; what classic deserves to be treated
as a monument that isn't?

Paris-Tours.

Quoted message said:

Which (if any) of these five don't deserve to be
on the list?

They all do, clearly.

Quoted message said:

I like Fleche Wallon and I always have to remember that there
are no World Cup points for it. Clasica San Sebastian has an excellent
course but not a long enough history to be considered a monument.

Fleche Wallonne, Gent-Wevelgem, Giro del Lazio (the three 1.HC races
on the calendar) are all very interesting, and could be World Cup
events if they weren't little sisters to monuments by scheduling. But
monuments themselves? No.. just highly prestigious races, the
supports to the monuments..

-Sonarrat.

Popular opinion may dictate Roubaix as the answer, but I like undulating
parcours so L-B-L is the best, IMO. But there are many legendary winners of
the Ronde Van Vlaanderen, too.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This question will never have a definitive answer but I thought I would

like

Quoted message said:

to hear what the peanut gallery has to say about it.

Lombardia is my favorite but the calendar move means it can't really

compare

Quoted message said:

in importance at this time. Milano - San Remo and Paris - Roubaix get more
publicity and each have their own challenges. I think that the Tour of
Flanders has enough cobblestones, hills and tough on form competitors to
make it probably the most important and difficult to win followed closely

by

Quoted message said:

Liege - Bastogne - Liege. AFAIK they each have the same points awarded in
the UCI ranking and World Cup.

Tour of Flanders
Liege - Bastogne - Liege
Paris Roubaix
Milano - San Remo
Giro di Lomabardia

I suppose a follow up question would be; what classic deserves to be

treated

Quoted message said:

as a monument that isn't? Which (if any) of these five don't deserve to be
on the list? I like Fleche Wallon and I always have to remember that there
are no World Cup points for it. Clasica San Sebastian has an excellent
course but not a long enough history to be considered a monument.

On 10/17/2004 09:53 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Chris"

Quoted message said:

This question will never have a definitive answer but I thought I would like
to hear what the peanut gallery has to say about it.

Lombardia is my favorite but the calendar move means it can't really compare
in importance at this time.

What calendar move? Lombardia has always been at the end of the season,
hence the reason why it's known as "The Race of the Falling Leaves" ...

--
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Chris said:

Tour of Flanders
Liege - Bastogne - Liege
Paris Roubaix
Milano - San Remo
Giro di Lomabardia

I like Paris-Roubaix best. Oh man, I'm high from anticipation a week
before. I tell all my rowing friends, "Next Sunday P-R!" and the
response is mostly "Ah right". I haven't seen it live in years because
it always coincides with a big university regatta I help organize, but
when I come home after a long long day I still start the 6h video tape,
and invariably fall asleep before Arenberg. I stay in Monday
(pre-arranged for the off chance that my club wins) and dedicate it to
the Cobbled Classic. I can intensely enjoy the images. Heroes, pure
heroes. You can't hide, and there's always drama.

Next is the Ronde. Great too, but I'm not into it that much. It does get
hyped hugely by Flemish media, so it's easy to go along on that wave. In
the interview last night, Dekker was asked which race he'd pick if he
could win just once more. "Can I pick two? The Ronde and Worlds."
Boogerd likes it too. Normally more suited to the Ardennes classics, he
has a mini obsession for the Ronde (although, he's probably obsessive
about a lot of things).

If I have to rank the remaining, it would be: LBL, Lombardy, San Remo.

--
Firefox Web Browser - Rediscover the web - http://www.getffox.com/
Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://www.gettbird.com/

"Philip W. Moore, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Popular opinion may dictate Roubaix as the answer, but I like undulating
parcours so L-B-L is the best, IMO. But there are many legendary winners of
the Ronde Van Vlaanderen, too.

The last few editions of LBL really disappointed me. But in fact,
most of the classics are disappointing the last years. This year i
really liked the HEW (ok not a classics, not a monument). Not the
ambiance but the race development. Climbing the Waseberg another time
was a good strategy of the organisation.

What's the most important monument? I don't even know what the riders
themselves would think about that.

Being incredibly biased, i like the Ronde the most. But i don't think
my personal taste equals the nation of "most important".
Why the Ronde?
1. There are cobblestone sections in it but not as much as P-R (and
better quality). Therefor it's more righteous than Paris-Roubaix where
bad luck sometimes determines the race development too much.
2. The climbs are steep and not that long: ideal for explosive riders
to make the difference.
3. The changing weather condition (it's april) can really change the
look and the development of the race.
4. The way the parcours is strategically build: a 180 km flat in
changing wind. 18 climbs in the last 80km (though i liked 16 more)
and a great last 25 km with Tenbosse, the Muur and the Bosberg. Glad
the Muur still proved after the repair works, it's hard enough to
separate the best from the rest.
5. The atmospere here starts to build up a week before the Ronde with
the last preparing races. And the day before: the RvV for tourists.
(anyone here to try the full 260km?)
6. living on the track, I eat a cobblestone of The Muur each morning
(that's why they had to repair it)

conclusion: having cobblestones AND hard climbs: it's the ideal mix of
Paris-Roubaix and LBL.

Kenny

Ewoud Dronkert <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Chris said:

Tour of Flanders
Liege - Bastogne - Liege
Paris Roubaix
Milano - San Remo
Giro di Lomabardia

Quoted message said:

Next is the Ronde. Great too, but I'm not into it that much. It does get
hyped hugely by Flemish media, so it's easy to go along on that wave. In
the interview last night, Dekker was asked which race he'd pick if he
could win just once more. "Can I pick two? The Ronde and Worlds."
Boogerd likes it too. Normally more suited to the Ardennes classics, he
has a mini obsession for the Ronde (although, he's probably obsessive
about a lot of things).

Yeah, it's strange. Bettini says the ronde is one of his main
objectives next year, now that Museeuw retired. Although many people
have doubts about the fact if he can do some dammage there.

[quote="Brenton James"]BOO on Paris-Roubaix
Selection made by bad quality roads? Lame

So what you're trying to say here is that races should never have a selection based on the roads they're run on? That just doesn't make sense. Kind of like the Chewbacca defense. Most races are decided on the terrain they cover, who is riding them, and how the racers react to what's going on around them on said roads. Paris-Roubaix is no different.

Tom

"Steven L. Sheffield" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

What calendar move? Lombardia has always been at the end of the season,
hence the reason why it's known as "The Race of the Falling Leaves" ...

Sequentially it has not moved but it was earlier in the year before the
calendar change. I recall that it was normally run in September several
weeks ealier than it is now. For whatever reasons, the race is not nearly as
well attended since the changes.

Chris <[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Sequentially it has not moved but it was earlier in the year before the
calendar change. I recall that it was normally run in September several
weeks ealier than it is now.

Leaves do not fall in September, sorry.
http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/ligne/cla_lombardia.php
1990 20 octobre
1994 8 octobre
1995 21 octobre
2004 16 octobre

Quoted message said:

For whatever reasons, the race is not nearly as well attended since the changes.

1990 Delion won. No Lemond, Fignon, Indurain, Roche, Fondriest, Argentin
or Delgado
1994 Bobrike won. No Indurain, Bugno, Armstrong, Bartoli, Sorensen,
Berzin, Rominger or Argentin
1995 Faresin won. No Indurain, Riis, Zuelle, Jalabert, Rominger,
Armstrong or Fondriest
2004 Cunego won. No Armstrong, Ullrich, Boonen, Valverde, Heras or Van
Petegem

For me, it's been pretty much the same since I started paying attention
to it, even with the changing parcours.

Jenko

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Dumbass, I'm not talking about terrain. I'm talking about road surface
conditions.

"giantcu92" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Brenton James said:

BOO on Paris-Roubaix
Selection made by bad quality roads? Lame

So what you're trying to say here is that races should never have a
selection based on the roads they're run on? That just doesn't make
sense. Kind of like the Chewbacca defense. Most races are decided on
the terrain they cover, who is riding them, and how the racers react
to what's going on around them on said roads. Paris-Roubaix is no
different.

Tom

--
giantcu92

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Chris said:

Tour of Flanders
Liege - Bastogne - Liege
Paris Roubaix
Milano - San Remo
Giro di Lomabardia

I like Paris-Roubaix best. Oh man, I'm high from anticipation a week
before. I tell all my rowing friends, "Next Sunday P-R!" and the
response is mostly "Ah right". I haven't seen it live in years

because

Quoted message said:

it always coincides with a big university regatta I help organize,

but

Quoted message said:

when I come home after a long long day I still start the 6h video

tape,

Quoted message said:

and invariably fall asleep before Arenberg. I stay in Monday
(pre-arranged for the off chance that my club wins) and dedicate it

to

Quoted message said:

the Cobbled Classic. I can intensely enjoy the images. Heroes, pure
heroes. You can't hide, and there's always drama.

Next is the Ronde. Great too, but I'm not into it that much. It does

get

Quoted message said:

hyped hugely by Flemish media, so it's easy to go along on that wave.

In

Quoted message said:

the interview last night, Dekker was asked which race he'd pick if he
could win just once more. "Can I pick two? The Ronde and Worlds."
Boogerd likes it too. Normally more suited to the Ardennes classics,

he

Quoted message said:

has a mini obsession for the Ronde (although, he's probably obsessive
about a lot of things).

If I have to rank the remaining, it would be: LBL, Lombardy, San

Remo.

Dumbass -

Nice post.
I'd put Milan-San Remo last too, by a wide margin.

K. Gringioni.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This question will never have a definitive answer but I thought I would
like
to hear what the peanut gallery has to say about it.

Lombardia is my favorite but the calendar move means it can't really
compare
in importance at this time. Milano - San Remo and Paris - Roubaix get more
publicity and each have their own challenges. I think that the Tour of
Flanders has enough cobblestones, hills and tough on form competitors to
make it probably the most important and difficult to win followed closely
by
Liege - Bastogne - Liege. AFAIK they each have the same points awarded in
the UCI ranking and World Cup.

Tour of Flanders
Liege - Bastogne - Liege
Paris Roubaix
Milano - San Remo
Giro di Lomabardia

I suppose a follow up question would be; what classic deserves to be
treated
as a monument that isn't? Which (if any) of these five don't deserve to be
on the list? I like Fleche Wallon and I always have to remember that there
are no World Cup points for it. Clasica San Sebastian has an excellent
course but not a long enough history to be considered a monument.

In bicycle racing tradition is more important than any other race. From 1948
until 1958 - in many respects the golden age of bicycle racing - there were
in the Clallenge Desgrange-Colombo 8 classics with a special status:
Paris-Roubaix, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Milan-San Remo, Flèche Wallone,
Paris-Tours, Paris-Bruxelles, Giro di Lombardia and Liège-Bastogne-Liège
(added a little later). In the Trophée Super Prestige Pernod which replaced
the Challenge Desgrange-Colombo, Paris-Roubaix had always some more points
than the other seven. Paris-Bruxelles lost much of its value because it
wasn't organized between 1967 and 1972. So did Paris-Tours because not only
the direction, but also the name changed continually. On the other hand, the
Flèche-Wallone lost its place in the World cup only because it was organized
on wednesday, instead of saturday or sunday (suddenly it was superseded by
races which were only "classics" by name, instead of tradition). Now that
the World cup disappeares, I hope the Flèche Wallone will get back its
rightful place in the monuments. The same goes for Paris-Tours and
Paris-Bruxelles, with Paris-Roubaix the two classics with the logest
tradition (Liège-Bastogne-Liège became only in 1930 a race for
professionals).

Benjo Maso

(Kenny) said:

Quoted message said:

Next is the Ronde. Great too, but I'm not into it that much. It does get
hyped hugely by Flemish media, so it's easy to go along on that wave. In
the interview last night, Dekker was asked which race he'd pick if he
could win just once more. "Can I pick two? The Ronde and Worlds."
Boogerd likes it too. Normally more suited to the Ardennes classics, he
has a mini obsession for the Ronde (although, he's probably obsessive
about a lot of things).

Yeah, it's strange. Bettini says the ronde is one of his main
objectives next year, now that Museeuw retired. Although many people
have doubts about the fact if he can do some dammage there.

I think he can. He got second or third at Het Volk once.

If Bartoli can win the Tour of Flanders, Bettin can too. Heck, even
Chiappucci was 4th in Flanders once, and Bettini is a better classics
rider than him.

JT

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"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In bicycle racing tradition is more important than any other race. From
1948 until 1958 - in many respects the golden age of bicycle racing -
there were in the Clallenge Desgrange-Colombo 8 classics with a special
status: Paris-Roubaix, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Milan-San Remo, Flèche
Wallone, Paris-Tours, Paris-Bruxelles, Giro di Lombardia and
Liège-Bastogne-Liège (added a little later). In the Trophée Super Prestige
Pernod which replaced the Challenge Desgrange-Colombo, Paris-Roubaix had
always some more points than the other seven. Paris-Bruxelles lost much of
its value because it wasn't organized between 1967 and 1972. So did
Paris-Tours because not only the direction, but also the name changed
continually. On the other hand, the Flèche-Wallone lost its place in the
World cup only because it was organized on wednesday, instead of saturday
or sunday (suddenly it was superseded by races which were only "classics"
by name, instead of tradition). Now that the World cup disappeares, I hope
the Flèche Wallone will get back its rightful place in the monuments. The
same goes for Paris-Tours and Paris-Bruxelles, with Paris-Roubaix the two
classics with the logest tradition (Liège-Bastogne-Liège became only in
1930 a race for professionals).

Benjo Maso

Great post. The importance list would also be influenced by nationality.
Wouldn't Milano-San Remo be of greater importance to most Italian riders
than the Northern classic, with the exception of Paris-Roubaix? My
impression also is that the riders from the North were more interested in
Lomabrdy than M-SR.

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

--
Peloton Pigs--Flying Since 1991
"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In bicycle racing tradition is more important than any other race. From
1948 until 1958 - in many respects the golden age of bicycle racing -
there were in the Clallenge Desgrange-Colombo 8 classics with a special
status: Paris-Roubaix, Ronde van Vlaanderen, Milan-San Remo, Flèche
Wallone, Paris-Tours, Paris-Bruxelles, Giro di Lombardia and
Liège-Bastogne-Liège (added a little later). In the Trophée Super
Prestige Pernod which replaced the Challenge Desgrange-Colombo,
Paris-Roubaix had always some more points than the other seven.
Paris-Bruxelles lost much of its value because it wasn't organized
between 1967 and 1972. So did Paris-Tours because not only the direction,
but also the name changed continually. On the other hand, the
Flèche-Wallone lost its place in the World cup only because it was
organized on wednesday, instead of saturday or sunday (suddenly it was
superseded by races which were only "classics" by name, instead of
tradition). Now that the World cup disappeares, I hope the Flèche Wallone
will get back its rightful place in the monuments. The same goes for
Paris-Tours and Paris-Bruxelles, with Paris-Roubaix the two classics with
the logest tradition (Liège-Bastogne-Liège became only in 1930 a race for
professionals).

Benjo Maso

Great post. The importance list would also be influenced by nationality.
Wouldn't Milano-San Remo be of greater importance to most Italian riders
than the Northern classic, with the exception of Paris-Roubaix?

Absolutely. Milan-San Remo is for most Italian riders still the most
important classic of the season, even more than P-R. .

Quoted message said:

My impression also is that the riders from the North were more interested
in Lomabrdy than M-SR.

I don't think so. Milan-San Remo has been dominated for many years by riders
of the North. After 1953 it took even seventeen years before an Italian
rider managed to win it again. There was so much despair that in 1967
Loretto Petrucci (winner in '52 and '53), who had stopped in 1956, even
decided to make a come-back.

Benjo Maso

--
Peloton Pigs--Flying Since 1991
"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There was so much despair that in 1967 Loretto Petrucci (winner in '52 and
'53), who had stopped in 1956, even decided to make a come-back.

And. And.........?

"B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

--
Peloton Pigs--Flying Since 1991
"benjo maso" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There was so much despair that in 1967 Loretto Petrucci (winner in '52
and '53), who had stopped in 1956, even decided to make a come-back.

And. And.........?

Guess... -🙂