which lid?

davek said:

I could, for example, take the view that they're all
rubbish anyway so if I'm going to spend money, I might as
well spend as little as possible and just buy the
cheapest/nicest colour/one with most air vents/fits most
comfortably...

"fits most comfortably" is generally a sign of fitting
/well/, and if it fits well it will be able to do its stuff
optimally. For "nicest colour" take bright/light and
preferably reflective to a degree, as that could help you be
seen and may help you not be in an accident to start with.

Quoted message said:

Or I could consider that although no helmet is designed to
save my life if I'm run over by a cement mixer, some
helmets *are* better than others, so I ought to buy the
best helmet available...

Though of course "best" does require a good fit. Helmets
work by absorbing energy of impact and both deforming and
passing "leftover" energy to as wide a surface area as
possible to reduce pressure points. If the fit isn't snug,
that won't happen and the lid won't work as designed, so
whatever standards it's been tested to would probably be
irrelevant.

Quoted message said:

If I take the latter approach, how do I actually find out
which is the best helmet? They all seem to be labelled "EN
1078" (are no helmets made to the Snell standard any
more?) and I suspect that some of these are barely up to
the standard while others are considerably above the
standard. How do I tell them apart? Is price a good guide?

Not really: you're generally paying for things like vents as
the more holes in the lid the harder it is to build it so it
conforms to the standard. If your design goals are "must
conform to EN 1078" you'd be pretty safe betting they're not
going to overdo things and cost themselves more money than
they have to, IMHO.

If all you can see are the comedy EuroStandard then I would
base your decision on a snug, comfortable fit, and don't
forget to assess "snug and comfortable" when the chin strap
is done up properly. If it doesn't keep the lid secure then
you're really only in the business of cosmetics. Extra vents
etc. will make it more comfortable on a hot day, but will
probably not help with its efficacy in a crash.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:50:23 +0000 (UTC), "davek"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I could consider that although no helmet is designed to
save my life if I'm run over by a cement mixer, some
helmets *are* better than others, so I ought to buy the
best helmet available...

In which case Brian walker of Head Protection Evaluations,
who tests helmets in the UK, recommends Specialized.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

davek said:

I could, for example, take the view that they're all
rubbish anyway so if I'm going to spend money, I might as
well spend as little as possible and just buy the
cheapest/nicest colour/one with most air vents/fits most
comfortably...

Or I could consider that although no helmet is designed to
save my life if I'm run over by a cement mixer, some
helmets *are* better than others, so I ought to buy the
best helmet available...

....that you find comfortable and cool enough, otherwise
you'll give up wearing it. A motorcycle helmet will offer
more protection but you couldn't stand it for cycling.
They're always a compromise.

~PB

"davek" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message

[snip]

Quoted message said:

If I take the latter approach, how do I actually find out
which is

the best

Quoted message said:

helmet? They all seem to be labelled "EN 1078" (are no
helmets made

to the

Quoted message said:

Snell standard any more?) and I suspect that some of
these are

barely up to

Quoted message said:

the standard while others are considerably above the
standard. How

do I tell

Quoted message said:

them apart? Is price a good guide?

Well, as you've noted, all helmets (in the UK) are designed
to meet the same Euro standard. Helmets compete by trying to
be lightest and coolest. I suspect this means that the
"best" helmets are those with minimum protection.

"Which" magazine, a few years ago, came up with the theory
that a helmet that can meet both the Euro and the N.
American standards is probably more protective than a
helmet which meets only one. Whether that is significant, I
don't know.

Wearing helmets too loosely is the latest theory on why
helemets seem to do so little good. I imagine, though,
that even a loose helmet will have almost the same area of
your head covered with styrofoam as would one tightly
strapped down.

When you get your helmet, consider also wearing it when
riding in a car. Not only is your total chance of head
injury more likely in car riding than bike riding, but it's
even more convenient to wear a helmet in a car than on a
bike. Cars even create an automatic helmet storage
solution, so there's really no excuse for not wearing a
helmet in a car

Jeremy Parker.

Simon Brooke said:

MET Parachute.

<URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5300005836>

There was a report I read recently that said chin bar
equipped helmets reduced injuries to the jaw but increased
injuries to the neck as they transferred the impact to the
skull rather than dissipating it in a breaking jaw. YMMV

Tony

Quoted message said:

What's the correct approach to adopt when purchasing a
bike helmet? (Not buying one at all is not an option, so
no facetious answers, please.)

In the abscence of Snell standard helmets and the like then
cost apparently has no bearing on the protection offered[1]
so go for the cheapest one that fits perfectly.

Also go for: Bright/reflective colours As few air vents as
possible for a possibly stronger helmet As many air bents as
possible for a more comfortable helmet As small a helmet as
possible to avoid hitting your head when you do fall off As
large a helmet as possible in case it provides more
protection No visor - can snag on the ground should you fall
and strike the helmet on the ground As smooth a shape as
possible - again, so it's less likely to snag

If you're a trundly a helmet shouldn't be terribly
uncomfortable. If you like to go fast or get hot when
cycling then go for one with lots of ventilation to
keep you cool.

BUT having said all that, fit is EVERYTHING so just try 'em
on until you find one that fits perfectly without having to
use the pads to bodge it.

[1] In the tradition of Usenet, I won't bother backing up
any of these claims.

in message <[email hidden]>, Jeremy Parker

(') said:

Wearing helmets too loosely is the latest theory on why
helemets seem to do so little good. I imagine, though,
that even a loose helmet will have almost the same area of
your head covered with styrofoam as would one tightly
strapped down.

Not in an impact. The helmet will move around, possibly
causing injury in doing so, and is likely to be knocked away
from where it can effectively protect you. If you're going
to bother with one at all make sure it fits well and tightly
to your head and can't move even if you push it really hard
- otherwise you really might as well not bother.

But the real truth is that helmets don't help in major
injury situations because they aren't very strong.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; Woz: 'All the best people in life seem to like
LINUX.' ;; <URL:http://www.woz.org/woz/cresponses/r-
esponse03.html

Mark Thompson:

Quoted message said:

If you're a trundly a helmet shouldn't be terribly
uncomfortable. If you like to go fast or get hot when
cycling then go for one with lots of ventilation to keep
you cool.

Thanks for all the interesting and helpful replies. What I
should have said is that this is actually for my wife, who
having only just acquired a bike is most definitely more
towards the trundly end of the spectrum than the racing end,
so air vents may not be so much of an issue. She insists on
getting herself a helmet even though I've explained that
they don't really offer all that much protection.

I already have a helmet myself - have had it for over six
years (probably ought to be thinking about replacing it by
now, I suspect). When I first took up wearing a helmet, I
didn't know what I know now about helmets - like most
people I just assumed they were A Good Thing. Even though
I know better now, I continue to wear it, partly out of
habit and partly because it tends to be expected of you
when you ride with other people (though I note lots of
audaxers go without).

I also have a slightly cynical reason for wearing a helmet -
namely that when I do eventually get run over by a cement
mixer, no-one will be able to say: "If only he had been
wearing a helmet..."

d.

Tony Raven said:

Simon Brooke wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

MET Parachute.

<URL:http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?ProductID=5300005836>

Quoted message said:

There was a report I read recently that said chin bar
equipped helmets reduced injuries to the jaw but increased
injuries to the neck as they transferred the impact to the
skull rather than dissipating it in a breaking jaw. YMMV

Exactly. The entire human face is a rather well designed
crumple zone which protects the brain. You have to be
careful when trying to improve on evolution's designs, which
have been carefully honed to an optimum over millions of
years of experiment.
--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

davek said:

I also have a slightly cynical reason for wearing a helmet
- namely that when I do eventually get run over by a cement
mixer, no-one will be able to say: "If only he had been
wearing a helmet..."

No. They'll say, "If only he'd replaced his 6 year old one."

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. -
Mark Twain

Just zis Guy said:

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 12:50:23 +0000 (UTC), "davek"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I could consider that although no helmet is designed to
save my life if I'm run over by a cement mixer, some
helmets *are* better than others, so I ought to buy the
best helmet available...

In which case Brian walker of Head Protection Evaluations,
who tests helmets in the UK, recommends Specialized.

Guy, can you recommend an LBS in the Reading area who
sells Specialized helmets and can give good advice on
correct fitting?

I, too, am thinking of buying a helmet but I wouldn't want
to waste money again on one which is uncomfortable or does
not fit correctly.

Mike K Smith said:

I, too, am thinking of buying a helmet but I wouldn't want
to waste money again on one which is uncomfortable or does
not fit correctly.

You are the only person who can decide what is comfortable
for you. As for "correct fitting", the shell should be
close to your head all over with a minimum of internal
padding, should cover your forehead rather than sit back on
the top of your head and have a strap which can be snug
without impairing your breathing or letting the lid move
around too much.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Mike K Smith said:

Guy, can you recommend an LBS in the Reading area who
sells Specialized helmets and can give good advice on
correct fitting?

No idea who sells what; my local shop ios AW, they have a
website: awcycles.co.ukawcycles.co.ukOpen ↗ - give them a call maybe?

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

Peter Clinch said:

Mike K Smith said:

I, too, am thinking of buying a helmet but I wouldn't
want to waste money again on one which is uncomfortable
or does not fit correctly.

You are the only person who can decide what is comfortable
for you.

Certainly.

Quoted message said:

As for "correct fitting", the shell should be close to
your head all over with a minimum of internal padding,
should cover your forehead rather than sit back on the top
of your head and have a strap which can be snug without
impairing your breathing or letting the lid move around
too much.

My last helmet required large amounts of foam padding and
still didn't fit snugly enough. Consequently I had to fasten
the strap too tightly for comfort, and I am very sensitive
to tight clothing etc around my neck when cycling.

I feel I was badly advised by a shop assistant at the time,
although he did stress the importance of wearing the helmet
forward over the forehead, he didn't pay enough attention to
the snugness of fit, and I was buying a helmet for the first
time and didn't really know what to look for.

I abandoned the helmet after a season, about 8 years ago,
and haven't worn one since.

Mike K Smith said:

My last helmet required large amounts of foam padding and
still didn't fit snugly enough.

Starts to lose the point soon: the lid works by deforming
/against/ the reasonably hard object that is your skull, and
passing on excess energy to as great a surface area as
possible. With fairly noddy type padding this won't happen
so the effectiveness of the helmet will be greatly reduced.

Quoted message said:

I abandoned the helmet after a season, about 8 years ago,
and haven't worn one since.

If you can't find one that's a snug and comfortable fit I'd
keep with that sentiment. Also note that "comfortable" will
vary according to the ride you're doing. If it's a hot and
humid day it might well be less trouble than it's worth
(given the likely effectiveness it's mainly insurance
against possible but unlikely major discomfort such as scalp
lacerations, and if the insurance against possible major
discomfort is fairly considerable discomfort with 100%
chance there gets a point where there, errr, isn't any much
point). I'm quite likely to wear mine for short trips in the
rain, unlikely to wear it for a long run in the sun.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I abandoned the helmet after a season, about 8 years
ago, and haven't worn one since.

If you can't find one that's a snug and comfortable fit
I'd keep with that sentiment. Also note that "comfortable"
will vary according to the ride you're doing. If it's a
hot and humid day it might well be less trouble than it's
worth (given the likely effectiveness it's mainly
insurance against possible but unlikely major discomfort
such as scalp lacerations, and if the insurance against
possible major discomfort is fairly considerable
discomfort with 100% chance there gets a point where
there, errr, isn't any much point). I'm quite likely to
wear mine for short trips in the rain, unlikely to wear it
for a long run in the sun.

It will be a sad day for me if helets are ever made
compulsory.

Mike K Smith said:

It will be a sad day for me if helets are ever made
compulsory.

Helets? Small Helens?

Tony