Which is the better bike?

Travis said:

I'm looking at a couple of second hand bikes.

There is a lovely Pinarello Surprise in my size, which I understand to
be the entry level bike of one of the best brands of bike. Also in my
size, a Trek 2300. They're both about 3 years old and in VGC.

The Pinarello has a spectacular yellow paint job, as Pinarellos do, a
real head turner. The Trek is the usual ordinary looking blue and
silver which wouldn't warrant a second glance from most people.

The Trek is marginally more expensive, I'm just wondering what opinions
are on either bike or brand? I know Treks are highly regarded around
here, but Pinarellos are also very special and definitely a lot better
looking, but the 2300 is higher up in the product range. I suspect the
Surprise is more equivalent to a Trek 1400.

I know the answer I'll get from many people will be to test ride the
bikes, but that isn't an option as they're being sold by interstate
sellers.

The better bike is the one that fits you better. I know you can always buy a new stem, bars, seat post, cranks, pedals and saddle to make a poor frame fit a better one... but minimising expense is a good idea for an entry level bike. Fwiw, I haven't heard a bad word said about Trek by their owners. However, there are lots more Treks around than Pinarellos - is relative rarity something that appeals?

Ritch

Go the Pinarello.
You may even hold on to it long enough to go beyond the life of it's current groupset.
And selling 2nd hand in the trading post 4 years later could almost make it an investment.

Even though both the Trek & Giant would prove to be better value for money..

.. oh yes I for got to mention, I would never consider buying a 2nd hand bicycle from interstate. I mean it's a bicycle, sure they may be 2nd hand but if you can't find and afford one that's local then you are either looking in the wrong places or have your priorities all wrong.

"Travis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking at a couple of second hand bikes.

What groupset do they have? More likely for the pinarello to have campagnolo
than the trek, which for me would be the deciding factor. I had a look on
the net and the pinarello is sweet looking, and the trek as you suggested
does look totally ubiquitous.

In your situation I'd go the pinarello and ride it unto the groupset needed
a change, then go for campag. That way you'll always have some cafe-cred if
that's what you crave, or end up craving.

Cheers
David M

Davidm said:

"Travis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking at a couple of second hand bikes.

What groupset do they have? More likely for the pinarello to have campagnolo
than the trek, which for me would be the deciding factor. I had a look on
the net and the pinarello is sweet looking, and the trek as you suggested
does look totally ubiquitous.

Copy and paste from the Pinarello ad:

"The [Pinarello] Surprise has 9 speed 105 accept the cranks which is 9
speed altegra the cranks are 175mm. A 53/39 combo, plus a standard
12/23. Mavic open pro hand built wheels, 105 hubs and shimano clipless
pedals"

The Trek 2300 is a full Ultegra set. In a private message to me the
seller also said "The rear derailleur and chain were replaced 18 months
ago (new Ultegra derailleur and Dura Ace chain)" It has the standard
Bontrager race Lite wheels that these Treks ship with.

Quoted message said:

From the reviews I've read, the Surprise is their entry level bike. My

question is, is Pinarello such a great brand that the cheapest
Pinarello would be equal to Trek's top of the line ZR9000 framed bike?

Quoted message said:

In your situation I'd go the pinarello and ride it unto the groupset needed
a change, then go for campag. That way you'll always have some cafe-cred if
that's what you crave, or end up craving.

I want to use it to commute and go fast on the weekend. The paintjob
on the Pinarello is lovely though while the Trek doesn't look all that
remarkable, its reasonably handsome I guess.

While I've got to say the Pinarello looks much nicer, I don't want to
make that the major criterion and I'm not much of a coffee drinker
anyway... ;P

"Travis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm not much of a coffee drinker
anyway... ;P

That's what a decaf soy latte is for.

Go the Pinarello :-)

Cheers
David M

Marx SS said:

Go the Pinarello.
You may even hold on to it long enough to go beyond the life of it's
current groupset.

Negatives from reviews that I've picked up;

"The 1-inch steel steerer is off the back for today's race machines
(limiting choices for later upgrades), and the typically Italian top
tube is a bit on the short side - 59 for our size 62, and 56cm for a
56."

I'm 189cm/6'3" tall and the Surprise is a size 60. If it turns out to
be a couple of cm too short, will that really be a big problem?

And also someone said that the rear derailleur is non-replacable.
Someone else said "The rear deraileur hanger is not replacable". I'm
kinda vague on whether or not this is something I should be concerned
about, particularly given that its only got 105 components and I'd like
to upgrade those when the group set wears out.

Quoted message said:

And selling 2nd hand in the trading post 4 years later could almost
make it an investment.

Now you're talking my language, given that investment is what I do for
a living. Though while I wouldn't be surprised (pun not intended) if
this were true for the upper end Pinarellos, is this likely to be true
for the bottom of the range model with the Shimano 105 gears?

Quoted message said:

Even though both the Trek & Giant would prove to be better value for
money..

The Trek is 1kg lighter, has carbon seat stays and a very special alloy
on the frame and ultegra groupset.

It should be an easy decision, but the Trek doesn't come close from an
aesthetics point of view. Blue and aluminium just doesn't compare with
an airbrushed sun yellow.

How much would it cost for me to upgrade the components to similar spec
that the Trek has? Would a person who isn't racing the thing really
notice the difference between ultregra and 105 anyway? Given the
comment made by a reviewer (which may or may not be correct)

Damn... I had my mind all made up to buy the Trek but now I'm totally
undecided!

Marx SS said:

Go the Pinarello.
You may even hold on to it long enough to go beyond the life of it's
current groupset.

Negatives from reviews that I've picked up;

"The 1-inch steel steerer is off the back for today's race machines
(limiting choices for later upgrades), and the typically Italian top
tube is a bit on the short side - 59 for our size 62, and 56cm for a
56."

I'm 189cm/6'3" tall and the Surprise is a size 60. If it turns out to
be a couple of cm too short, will that really be a big problem?

And also someone said that the rear derailleur is non-replacable.
Someone else said "The rear deraileur hanger is not replacable". I'm
kinda vague on whether or not this is something I should be concerned
about, particularly given that its only got 105 components and I'd like
to upgrade those when the group set wears out.

Quoted message said:

And selling 2nd hand in the trading post 4 years later could almost
make it an investment.

Now you're talking my language, given that investment is what I do for
a living. Though while I wouldn't be surprised (pun not intended) if
this were true for the upper end Pinarellos, is this likely to be true
for the bottom of the range model with the Shimano 105 gears?

Quoted message said:

Even though both the Trek & Giant would prove to be better value for
money..

The Trek is 1kg lighter, has carbon seat stays and a very special alloy
on the frame and ultegra groupset. I hear nothing but nice things
about Trek, the worst anyone says is they're maybe overpriced... but
this second hand one is really cheap.

It should be an easy decision, but the Trek doesn't come close from an
aesthetics point of view. Blue and aluminium just doesn't compare with
an airbrushed sun yellow.

How much would it cost for me to upgrade the components to similar spec
that the Trek has? Would a person who isn't racing the thing really
notice the difference between ultregra and 105 anyway? Given the
review comments about the rear derailleur, is this a big problem?

Damn... I had my mind all made up to buy the Trek but now I'm totally
undecided!

Davidm said:

"Travis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm not much of a coffee drinker
anyway... ;P

That's what a decaf soy latte is for.

No, the purpose of that particular drink is to hasten the coming of
judgement day. Haven't you read the book of Revelation?

Quoted message said:

Go the Pinarello :-)

Ok, apart from the sex factor (one reviewer wrote "Looks, looks and
more looks. Sexy with a capital S! This is the only bike that's ever
gotten me laid."

But technically, is a Pinarello a better bike than a Trek?

Davidm said:

"Travis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm not much of a coffee drinker
anyway... ;P

That's what a decaf soy latte is for.

No, the purpose of that particular drink is to hasten the coming of
judgement day. Haven't you read the book of Revelation?

Quoted message said:

Go the Pinarello :-)

Ok, apart from the sex factor (one reviewer wrote "Looks, looks and
more looks. Sexy with a capital S! This is the only bike that's ever
gotten me laid."

But technically, is a Pinarello a better bike than a Trek?

Travis said:

But technically, is a Pinarello a better bike than a Trek?

That's a much deeper question than you realise. What makes one bike
better than another? Stiffness? Handling? Weight? Looks? Cost?
Longevity? Fit? [censored] factor at cafe?

What matters to you? And why are you even considering splashing cash
on a bike that you're not going to test ride?

Bleve said:

Travis said:

But technically, is a Pinarello a better bike than a Trek?

That's a much deeper question than you realise. What makes one bike
better than another? Stiffness? Handling? Weight? Looks? Cost?
Longevity? Fit? [censored] factor at cafe?

What matters to you? And why are you even considering splashing cash
on a bike that you're not going to test ride?

Clearly its [censored] factor. Get real. All other characteristics are trivial.

Even more important (But unmentioned by the Bleve) is reverse [censored]
factor. Where you give the impression that [censored] factor is sooo not an
issue. My TCR has reverse [censored] in spades.

I am soooo cool. Look upon my bike you mortals and despair 🙂

Dave

Bleve said:

Travis wrote:

And why are you even considering splashing cash
on a bike that you're not going to test ride?

Exactly.
Looks come last.
Fit & ride come first.
Test ride before you consider.

dave said:

Even more important (But unmentioned by the Bleve) is reverse [censored]
factor. Where you give the impression that [censored] factor is sooo not an
issue. My TCR has reverse [censored] in spades.

'Knaw' ???

Bleve said:

Travis said:

But technically, is a Pinarello a better bike than a Trek?

That's a much deeper question than you realise. What makes one bike
better than another? Stiffness? Handling? Weight? Looks? Cost?
Longevity? Fit? [censored] factor at cafe?

All of the above except the last.

I've done my best to research the bikes and both frames seem to be
extremely stiff. Handling for both is excellent though I don't know
which would be better. The Trek is significantly lighter (about 1kg
lighter). The Pinarello is unquestionably better looking. The
Pinarello costs a couple of hundred dollars less, but its "only" a 105
vs the Trek's Ultegras and better wheels and the Trek is more expensive
at RRP so the Trek is marginally better value. Longevity is a huge
issue. I don't want the frame breaking under my 100kg weight. Trek
has a lifetime warranty, Pinarello has a 2y warranty. Not that
warranties matter much because they don't apply to second hand bikes...
but I figure this may be an indication that Trek might be a bit
stronger.

Fit is a very important issue of course, but its impossible when I
can't view the bike first. I have test ridden a trek (1400) and it
felt really good and there was a remark in one of the Pinarello
Surprise reviews that it was a bit undersized relative to the stated
frame size. The Trek might be a better fit... but I can't say.

I rarely go to cafes and when I do its usually with my wife to meet one
of her friends, and we always drive there.

Quoted message said:

What matters to you? And why are you even considering splashing cash
on a bike that you're not going to test ride?

Folly I guess. But I'm going to do it anyway because I'm not convinced
that I'd be able to recognise the difference between an excellent fit
and a really good one, given that I've been riding around on a Repco
Superlite all these years which weighs almost twice what the Trek I'm
considering weighs and was at least 4cm too short anyway.

No new bike I can afford right now comes anywhere near the quality of
either of the second hand bikes I'm considering and indeed both bikes
are well below my budget so I'll have enough money left over at the end
of this to buy myself shoes, jerseys etc and maybe even a few weak
decaf soy lattes, should I wish to risk making God angry again.

Good choice Travis. Good luck and happy cycling - I hope you don't get
any nasty surprises (sorry). You'd be mad if you expected no
maintenance issues and you should get the thing serviced pretty soon.
Perhaps don't spend your change until you know if you need new chain,
cassette, brake blocks, not to mention something a bit dearer like a
rim.

I have two second hand bikes and last year imported one from the US,
sight unseen, through eBay. Both are wonderful, thankfully.

Donga

Travis said:

Bleve said:

Travis said:

But technically, is a Pinarello a better bike than a Trek?

That's a much deeper question than you realise. What makes one bike
better than another? Stiffness? Handling? Weight? Looks? Cost?
Longevity? Fit? [censored] factor at cafe?

All of the above except the last.

I've done my best to research the bikes and both frames seem to be
extremely stiff. Handling for both is excellent though I don't know
which would be better. The Trek is significantly lighter (about 1kg
lighter). The Pinarello is unquestionably better looking. The
Pinarello costs a couple of hundred dollars less, but its "only" a 105
vs the Trek's Ultegras and better wheels and the Trek is more expensive
at RRP so the Trek is marginally better value. Longevity is a huge
issue. I don't want the frame breaking under my 100kg weight. Trek
has a lifetime warranty, Pinarello has a 2y warranty. Not that
warranties matter much because they don't apply to second hand bikes...
but I figure this may be an indication that Trek might be a bit
stronger.

Fit is a very important issue of course, but its impossible when I
can't view the bike first. I have test ridden a trek (1400) and it
felt really good and there was a remark in one of the Pinarello
Surprise reviews that it was a bit undersized relative to the stated
frame size. The Trek might be a better fit... but I can't say.

I rarely go to cafes and when I do its usually with my wife to meet one
of her friends, and we always drive there.

Quoted message said:

What matters to you? And why are you even considering splashing cash
on a bike that you're not going to test ride?

Folly I guess. But I'm going to do it anyway because I'm not convinced
that I'd be able to recognise the difference between an excellent fit
and a really good one, given that I've been riding around on a Repco
Superlite all these years which weighs almost twice what the Trek I'm
considering weighs and was at least 4cm too short anyway.

No new bike I can afford right now comes anywhere near the quality of
either of the second hand bikes I'm considering and indeed both bikes
are well below my budget so I'll have enough money left over at the end
of this to buy myself shoes, jerseys etc and maybe even a few weak
decaf soy lattes, should I wish to risk making God angry again.

Unless you're in a huge rush you don't have to buy one of these. Being
a tall freak myself (192cm) you often have to wait a while for good
second hand stuff in large sizes, though it can be an advantage too
since you can get stuff cheaper with the lack of potential buyers. I
picked up a great Paconi SLX steel 62cm frame on ebay last year and was
the only bidder. I'm sure it would have sold for a lot more if it was
56cm. Making a big jump like you are from a old too small bike, I would
recommend buying a bike from a shop. And no, I don't own or work in a
shop, in fact I don't use my LBS much at all, but until you've got your
fit and position sorted out and know how to get your bike set up the
way you like it a good relationship with a good LBS will come in very
handy as you try different stems, seats, bars etc and could save you
money in the long run.

As for the two bikes in question from what I can gather the Pinarello
Surprise is a very cheap frame, not even double butted, so would be
heavy, probably not ride particularly well but look nice, even the most
expensive Pinarellos are not particularly light, strong or stiff
according to tests done by a German magazine I saw online somewhere a
while back. I wouldn't take Trek's lifetime warranty to mean their
frame is any stronger. Trek is just a much bigger company and can
afford to give away a few more frames. If you definitely want one of
these two I'd recommend the Trek, though I'd really recommend you get
yourself to a good LBS.

Bruce.

Donga said:

Good choice Travis. Good luck and happy cycling - I hope you don't get
any nasty surprises (sorry). You'd be mad if you expected no
maintenance issues and you should get the thing serviced pretty soon.
Perhaps don't spend your change until you know if you need new chain,
cassette, brake blocks, not to mention something a bit dearer like a
rim.

He says the chain and cassette were replaced 18 months ago, its a Dura
Ace chain.

With the money I'm saving relative to a new bike I can upgrade to some
pretty high end rims if necessary, though the seller insists its all in
great condition and has been serviced regularly.

Quoted message said:

I have two second hand bikes and last year imported one from the US,
sight unseen, through eBay. Both are wonderful, thankfully.

Glad it worked out for you.

Travis said:

[snip]

No new bike I can afford right now comes anywhere near the quality of
either of the second hand bikes I'm considering and indeed both bikes
are well below my budget so I'll have enough money left over at the end
of this to buy myself shoes, jerseys etc and maybe even a few weak
decaf soy lattes, should I wish to risk making God angry again.

At the risk of jumping to conclusions, if I was in your shoes and had to choose between only these two options, I'd go for the Trek. It's lighter and has better components. You don't care for rarity value and you won't know anything about fit and handling until you ride it.

I'm not so sure about the value of test riding anyway... setting up _all_ of the stem, bars, pedals, cleats, cranks, saddle height, setback and even the choice of tyres and tyre pressure affect comfort and handling far more than how the frame "feels".

If the frame is about the right size, you have plenty of scope for making adjustments and you'll get something you'll want to ride often. (and that we'll want to see pics of 🙂 )

Good luck!
Ritch

quote='Bleve'Travis said:

But technically, is a Pinarello a better bike than a Trek?

That's a much deeper question than you realise. What makes one bike
better than another? Stiffness? Handling? Weight? Looks? Cost?
Longevity? Fit? [censored] factor at cafe?

What matters to you? And why are you even considering splashing cash
on a bike that you're not going to test ride?[/QUOTE]spot on....

its weird watching people who have splashed on some bling bling thing that gets drools and ahs, when all along it doesnt fit them, probably wouldnt fit any of the drooling and dithering doters and was a plain waste of money for the sake of ego and collateral discomfort...

My double mantra on bikes...a)get a fit and b)86400

on a) "cos if it dont fit it aint gonna work"

& b) a few seconds out of a cager's day to wait for a cyclist wont kill the cager...it may kill the cyclist---you see---we get 86400 of them every day, what's five here or there?