Which Brompton for Cycle2Work

Toby Sleigh said:

So the question is what's peoples views on the M-type vs. the S-type. Is the
slightly less weight of the S type worth it?

Well, that depends what you're really trying to get better... The main
difference will be a more crouched over riding position as the S bars
are further forwards and lower down. That should give higher
performance, but if you want a performance folder with more performance
at the expense of slightly less fold you'd probably be better off with a
Birdy to be quite honest.

I actually quite like a more upright seating position. It does catch
the wind a bit more but it takes the weight off my arms which is okay by
me, and it's not like I'm going 100s of km on it so the wind issue isn't
that much of a problem for me.

With the weight side, yes, it will be lighter, but it still won't be a
great hill climb sprinter and carrying it much over 50m it'll still be
worth unfolding and wheeling it.

Quoted message said:

Do you lose much carrying capacity with the S type bag?

According to Brompton the S bag is 20l, tha cloth pannier 22, the
folding basket 24 and touring pannier 28.

Quoted message said:

Is there any difference in folding between the two types?

Not AFAICT. The thing about Bromptons these days is that any of the
basic models can be made up pretty much a la carte with the other
options, standard on all 3 models. So you can specify extra-whizz
titanium frame extremities, a choice of hub or bottle dynamo lighting,
mudguards or not, rear rack with mudguards or not, what colour you want,
standard, standard titanium, long or telescopic seat post, 1, 2, 3 or 6
gear, gear reduction, normal, Vitesse or Brooks saddle, Brompton,
Brompton/kevlar or Schwalbe Marathon tyres. Download the PDF from
http://www.bromptonbicycle.co.uk/home/brompton_brochure.pdf for more
details of this lot...

Quoted message said:

Any observations?

My personal Brom is a 3 speed -18% gear reduction yellow M type with a
hub dynamo and the front cloth pannier running on Schwalbe Marathons
with the Brooks saddle. I use it as a general hack bike around town for
which it is superb. If it had to be replaced for some reason I don't
think I'd change the spec and I've had a couple of years to think about
it. I might put on a Schlumpf at some point to extend the gear range
rather more than the 6 speed conversion would allow. The titanium
go-faster bits would be nice but I don't think I'd rate them as terribly
cost effective given I've got a Rohloff fund for the tourer to support...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Toby

Your post rang a bell and (having checked the company GAL) it turns out
you work for the same company as me. Good news about this and I'm
tempted myself except I've already got a Brompton which I commute on
whenever possible. The rules say you've got to buy it principally for
commuting and the company retain ownership (and may sell it to you at
market value at the end of the payment period), though I suspect none
of this would be enforced.

PS: I yesterday emailed our CEO (himself a cyclist commuter) asking for
improved cycle-friendliness in our offices. So far no reply.

Andy

Quoted message said:

Toby

Your post rang a bell and (having checked the company GAL) it turns out
you work for the same company as me. Good news about this and I'm
tempted myself except I've already got a Brompton which I commute on
whenever possible. The rules say you've got to buy it principally for
commuting and the company retain ownership (and may sell it to you at
market value at the end of the payment period), though I suspect none
of this would be enforced.

Check with the bean counters how they will handle that last part because
market value for a used Brompton is pretty close to new price. So you
wouldn't want to pay your employer half the price of a Brompton and then
have to pay him the market price as well to own it. Bean counters can
be remarkably pernickety about doing tax related thing properly.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Good point. Bromptons seem to depreciate much less than most bikes.

In the referenced article, Tony Raven <[email hidden]> writes:

....

Quoted message said:

Check with the bean counters how they will handle that last part
because market value for a used Brompton is pretty close to new
price. So you wouldn't want to pay your employer half the price
of a Brompton and then have to pay him the market price as well to
own it. Bean counters can be remarkably pernickety about doing tax
related thing properly.

Don't assume "market value" means the same as what you'd pay for a
good secondhand one. This is a lease/buy-back deal designed to give
you a tax break and encourage cycling. Here the agreement is:

the Cycle Package will be transferred to the Employee for a
nominal one off payment of 5% of the total cost of the Cycle
Package inclusive of VAT.

The above isn't unreasonable. Companies etc often write off their
assets at far steeper rates than individuals.

Universities can't claim back the VAT on the bike, so we don't
see the saving that some of you may see. But some might also
save the VAT on the above 5%.

But, as always, you should check your local agreement.

Going back to the original post, I'm surprised a single company
(Halfords) was chosen to supply the bike. This doesn't have to be
the case. I could get a bike from any local, participating dealer.
There's at least three decent ones in Bath, John's Bikes, Total
Fitness and Avon Valley who take part in this scheme. Avon Valley
are very good on folding bikes.
--
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK
[email hidden]

Dennis Davis said:

Don't assume "market value" means the same as what you'd pay for a
good secondhand one. This is a lease/buy-back deal designed to give
you a tax break and encourage cycling. Here the agreement is:

the Cycle Package will be transferred to the Employee for a
nominal one off payment of 5% of the total cost of the Cycle
Package inclusive of VAT.

I presume your local weasels have determined that this does not step
over the line of moving from a Hire agreement (which is acceptable for
tax break purposes) to a Hire-Purchase (which isn't.)

If there is no right to buy or obligation to buy (or obligation to sell
on the part of the employer) then it is probably OK.

We are strongly considering this scheme here.. would it be possible to
see a copy of the agreement you have locally?

...d

Dennis Davis said:

Don't assume "market value" means the same as what you'd pay for a
good secondhand one. This is a lease/buy-back deal designed to give
you a tax break and encourage cycling. Here the agreement is:

That's exactly what it means in tax terms. Market value is the price an
arms length third party would pay for it which is not the same as the
depreciated book value.

Quoted message said:

the Cycle Package will be transferred to the Employee for a
nominal one off payment of 5% of the total cost of the Cycle
Package inclusive of VAT.

Is that your local company rules or new rules from HMRC? If its company
rules and not agreed with HMRC then they and you are exposed to a
benefit in kind charge of your marginal tax rate plus NIC on the
difference between the 5% charge and the market value.

Quoted message said:

The above isn't unreasonable. Companies etc often write off their
assets at far steeper rates than individuals.

Book value and market value are not the same.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 20:15:20 +0100, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>
said in <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Book value and market value are not the same.

Too right. Exhibit A: one power press, 1975 vintage, value on books
£2,000, market value £5 per tonne.

Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

Quoted message said:

Toby

Your post rang a bell and (having checked the company GAL) it turns out
you work for the same company as me.

I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

Quoted message said:

Good news about this and I'm
tempted myself except I've already got a Brompton which I commute on
whenever possible. The rules say you've got to buy it principally for
commuting and the company retain ownership (and may sell it to you at
market value at the end of the payment period), though I suspect none
of this would be enforced.

In the worked example, I couldn't find any reference to the final
payment. The brochure for the PC4home scheme was quite explicit on this
matter. I think I might have to visit the roadshow in Bracknell to clarify.

Quoted message said:

PS: I yesterday emailed our CEO (himself a cyclist commuter) asking for
improved cycle-friendliness in our offices. So far no reply.

Quite encourgaing - cycling's not just for the junior staff!

Dennis Davis said:

Going back to the original post, I'm surprised a single company
(Halfords) was chosen to supply the bike.

Their scheme, their rules. Probably outsourced all the admin to
Halfords Business Services. In fact, so much is outsourced, I wonder if
the company actually exists.

This doesn't have to be

Quoted message said:

the case. I could get a bike from any local, participating dealer.
There's at least three decent ones in Bath, John's Bikes, Total
Fitness and Avon Valley who take part in this scheme. Avon Valley
are very good on folding bikes.