Which bike is best?

Stephen Reid said:

I haven't had a bike for about ten years now and am looking to get one
to start using for some general riding (some off road, some on road).

On-road, all of the bikes you mention (with those specs) will be slow,
due to the knobbly tires, and wet and muddy, due to the lack of
mudguards. If that suits you, that's fine, but you might want to
consider slicks and mudguards.

R.

"Stephen Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Hi,

I haven't had a bike for about ten years now and am looking to get one to start using for some general riding (some off road, some on road). I have narrowed it down to three bikes and was wondering which you think is the best value? You can click the bikes to see their specs.

Carrera Kraken - from Halfords, I can get this bike for £200 instead of £350 thorugh my employer.

Giant Yukon - from Cyclesports for £237.

Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc 2005 - from De Ver Cycles for £300.

I have had a Carrera Kraken and was delighted with it. It has had good reviews in its two versions that i know of. There is possibly an issue with the bottom bracket being cup and bearing rather than a sealed cartridge unit and it might be worthwhile establishing if the current model uses a cartridge bottom bracket.

None of the listed bikes are ideal for road riding. The knobblies fitted to the Kraken are very draggy on the road and I suspect that the other bikes will be similarly shod. You need to consider if your riding is going to be mainly on the road and tow paths/sustrans routes or truly off-road and perhaps consider bikes from the Dawes and Ridgeback ranges that are better suited to the road but can cope with light off road use.

Stephen Reid said:

Hi,

I haven't had a bike for about ten years now and am looking to get one
to start using for some general riding (some off road, some on road). I
have narrowed it down to three bikes and was wondering which you think
is the best value? You can click the bikes to see their specs.

Carrera Kraken
<http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10151&productId=207937&categoryId=31385> -
from Halfords, I can get this bike for £200 instead of £350 thorugh my
employer.

Giant Yukon
<http://www.cyclesportsuk.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=123> - from
Cyclesports for £237.

Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc 2005
<http://shop.devercycles.co.uk/?6/ASMbT8PDkAxPJ50LYkI7hDieMyU/XoJWIVZE6d+5mcWEcVf7XHJmZhFsJIppOHEtKz8wmYuQ2kOlG7kdEbyQ==> -
from De Ver Cycles for £300.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Stephen

Well I have a blue bike and it's really slow. So, I would get the red
one because its the fastest!

....get the Spec - adequate first timer bike.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

i artikel [email hidden], skrev Simon
Brooke på [email hidden] den 06-04-17 21.54:

Quoted message said:

The Giant FCR3 is a lot better for what you want than anything you've
listed: as good or better frame, much better forks, much better
transmission, much better brakes, road geometry and tyres which will be
vastly better on road while being able to cope with some off-road use.

How is the transmission different and why is it better? Is it more
efficient?

--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary

in message <[email hidden]>, Erik Sandblom

(') said:

i artikel [email hidden], skrev Simon
Brooke på [email hidden] den 06-04-17 21.54:

Quoted message said:

The Giant FCR3 is a lot better for what you want than anything you've
listed: as good or better frame, much better forks, much better
transmission, much better brakes, road geometry and tyres which will
be vastly better on road while being able to cope with some off-road
use.

How is the transmission different and why is it better? Is it more
efficient?

Errr... when I wrote that I thought the Giant FCR3 had SRAM X-7
derailleurs, which are streets ahead of the low end Shimano ones. I
thought this because it's advertised as such on this page:
http://www.awcycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b8s20p11042
However, on Giant's own page on the bike:
http://www.giantbicycles.com/uk/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2007&model=10351
it says it has Shimano Sora/440 derailleurs, which are cheap'n'nasty. The
bike in the /photo/ on the AW Cycles page has a Sora rear derailleur,
but I'd read the specification.

If you can get an FCR3 as advertised by AW Cycles with the SRAM X-7
transmission, it's better because the derailleurs as better engineered,
with better pivots. Consequently they will shift more accurately and
will keep shifting accurately longer, with fewer mis-shifts and ghost
shifts. The 1:1 actuation ratio on the SRAM means that adjustment is
less sensitive, anyway, which seeing the pantograph design is less
sloppy and thus has less hysteresis means that you get a double benefit.
Overall the SRAM mech design is just better than the Shimano.
Furthermore, X-7 is mid-level in SRAM's range, whereas Acera and Alivio
(and Sora) are fairly low-end groupsets. An X-7 rear mech, retail, is
£45; a Sora, £17.

Generally, however, the FCR3 (and other road-oriented hybrids) have road
oriented gearing, which is to say higher, closer ratios than mountain
bikes, more suited to the demands of road riding; so even if the bike
does have the Sora/440 derailleurs that Giant says it has, it still
has /slightly/ better transmission than the cheap mountain bikes the OP
suggested.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they
;; do it from  religious conviction."          -- Pascal

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Erik Sandblom

(') said:

i artikel [email hidden], skrev
Simon Brooke på [email hidden] den 06-04-17 21.54:

Quoted message said:

The Giant FCR3 is a lot better for what you want than anything
you've listed: as good or better frame, much better forks, much
better transmission, much better brakes, road geometry and tyres
which will be vastly better on road while being able to cope with
some off-road use.

How is the transmission different and why is it better? Is it more
efficient?

Errr... when I wrote that I thought the Giant FCR3 had SRAM X-7
derailleurs, which are streets ahead of the low end Shimano ones. I
thought this because it's advertised as such on this page:
http://www.awcycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b8s20p11042
However, on Giant's own page on the bike:
http://www.giantbicycles.com/uk/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2007&model=10351
it says it has Shimano Sora/440 derailleurs, which are cheap'n'nasty.
The bike in the /photo/ on the AW Cycles page has a Sora rear
derailleur, but I'd read the specification.

If you can get an FCR3 as advertised by AW Cycles with the SRAM X-7
transmission, it's better because the derailleurs as better
engineered, with better pivots. Consequently they will shift more
accurately and will keep shifting accurately longer, with fewer
mis-shifts and ghost shifts. The 1:1 actuation ratio on the SRAM
means that adjustment is less sensitive, anyway, which seeing the
pantograph design is less sloppy and thus has less hysteresis means
that you get a double benefit. Overall the SRAM mech design is just
better than the Shimano. Furthermore, X-7 is mid-level in SRAM's
range, whereas Acera and Alivio (and Sora) are fairly low-end
groupsets. An X-7 rear mech, retail, is £45; a Sora, £17.

Generally, however, the FCR3 (and other road-oriented hybrids) have
road oriented gearing, which is to say higher, closer ratios than
mountain bikes, more suited to the demands of road riding; so even if
the bike does have the Sora/440 derailleurs that Giant says it has,
it still
has /slightly/ better transmission than the cheap mountain bikes the
OP suggested.

Why stop there? Uh, duh, Campy Record on everything! Why would you even
suggest looking at anything else?!?!
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

Simon Brooke said:

Errr... when I wrote that I thought the Giant FCR3 had SRAM X-7
derailleurs, which are streets ahead of the low end Shimano ones. I
thought this because it's advertised as such on this page:
http://www.awcycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b8s20p11042
However, on Giant's own page on the bike:
http://www.giantbicycles.com/uk/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2007&model=10351
it says it has Shimano Sora/440 derailleurs, which are cheap'n'nasty. The
bike in the /photo/ on the AW Cycles page has a Sora rear derailleur,
but I'd read the specification.

If you can get an FCR3 as advertised by AW Cycles with the SRAM X-7
transmission, it's better because the derailleurs as better engineered,
with better pivots.

Think I know what they've done. That's the description for the 2005 FCR3:
http://www.giantbicycles.com/uk/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2006&model=10287
with carbon fork et all, RRP £550. In the 2005 range there was an FCR4
for £350 with a much more disappointing spec.

Nice bikes though.

Ib said:

Simon Brooke said:

Errr... when I wrote that I thought the Giant FCR3 had SRAM X-7
derailleurs, which are streets ahead of the low end Shimano ones. I
thought this because it's advertised as such on this page:
http://www.awcycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b8s20p11042
However, on Giant's own page on the bike:
http://www.giantbicycles.com/uk/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2007&model=10351
it says it has Shimano Sora/440 derailleurs, which are
cheap'n'nasty. The bike in the /photo/ on the AW Cycles page has a
Sora rear derailleur, but I'd read the specification.

If you can get an FCR3 as advertised by AW Cycles with the SRAM X-7
transmission, it's better because the derailleurs as better
engineered, with better pivots.

Think I know what they've done. That's the description for the 2005
FCR3:
http://www.giantbicycles.com/uk/030.000.000/030.000.000.asp?year=2006&model=10287
with carbon fork et all, RRP £550. In the 2005 range there was an
FCR4 for £350 with a much more disappointing spec.
Nice bikes though.

They are essentially OCRs with canti mounts and flat bars/controls. The
tubing is exactly the same.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

"Stephen Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Carrera Kraken - from Halfords, I can get this bike for £200 instead of
£350 thorugh my employer.
Giant Yukon - from Cyclesports for £237.
Specialized Hardrock Sport Disc 2005 - from De Ver Cycles for £300.

Out of the three, I'd have the Giant or the Specialized. If I were picking a
bike for £300, I'd probably look elsewhere. I'd avoid mechanical disk brakes
and go for V brakes - at least Deore or Avids. The Giant I had lasted pretty
well, but the bottom bracket, hubs and headset all died fairly sharpish
(similar priced bike). And the chainrings were riveted to the crankset. The
end result of all that is that the bike soon costs you as much as it cost to
buy in repairs.

In short, I'd go for as much Shimano Deore stuff as you can get in the
drivetrain - probably not a lot, but a bit's better than none. P'raps have a
look at the Edinburgh Cycles website, they do some half decent started MTBs
under the revolution name. Suspension forks at this price aren't great but
they do work a bit - decent forks retail at £100 upwards, so you're not
going to find them on cheap bikes. Same goes for a pair of good hydraulic
disk brakes. It really does depend on what you want to do - if you'll be up
in the peak district every weekend, you'll replace lots of bits on the bike.
If you go cycling on gentler paths, it'll last a lot better, but you'd
probably be better off with a more town / hybrid orientated bike as it'll
roll better.

Doki said:

Same goes for a pair of good hydraulic
disk brakes.

Giant Terrago has hydraulic discs and is GBP 400. Seemed quite
reasonable for the price.

I personally look on an off the shelf bike as a starting point and
would rapidly swap cranks (for shorter ones), saddle, add a rack,
possibly other drivetrain bits too.

...d

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

Doki said:

Same goes for a pair of good hydraulic
disk brakes.

Giant Terrago has hydraulic discs and is GBP 400. Seemed quite
reasonable for the price.

I personally look on an off the shelf bike as a starting point and
would rapidly swap cranks (for shorter ones), saddle, add a rack,
possibly other drivetrain bits too.

Yup, I agree. But it makes sense to start with a bike that's sufficiently
reasonably set up that you need to swap as little as possible. Swapping
stuff quickly gets expensive.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

The Conservative Party is now dead. The corpse may still be
twitching, but resurrection is not an option - unless Satan
chucks them out of Hell as too objectionable even for him.

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doki said:

Same goes for a pair of good hydraulic
disk brakes.

Giant Terrago has hydraulic discs and is GBP 400. Seemed quite
reasonable for the price.

I personally look on an off the shelf bike as a starting point and
would rapidly swap cranks (for shorter ones), saddle, add a rack,
possibly other drivetrain bits too.

I wouldn't. The cost of a swapped bit is much less than the cost of getting
a bike with the bit you want on it as the bike maker's buying stuff trade.
For a £300 bike, I wouldn't even bother thinking about hydraulic or cable
disks. You can get along perfectly fine with V-brakes, unless you do a lot
of riding in places where the grit eats the pad in a couple of hours.

Doki said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doki said:

Same goes for a pair of good hydraulic
disk brakes.

Giant Terrago has hydraulic discs and is GBP 400. Seemed quite
reasonable for the price.

I personally look on an off the shelf bike as a starting point and
would rapidly swap cranks (for shorter ones), saddle, add a rack,
possibly other drivetrain bits too.

I wouldn't. The cost of a swapped bit is much less than the cost of getting
a bike with the bit you want on it as the bike maker's buying stuff trade.

It is somewhat difficult to find any bike off the shelf in my size with
165mm cranks, especially an MTB. It is also a matter of choice for the
various components that one likes. Typically the headline spec will not
necessarily optimise the bits you want optimised,

Quoted message said:

For a £300 bike, I wouldn't even bother thinking about hydraulic or cable
disks. You can get along perfectly fine with V-brakes, unless you do a lot
of riding in places where the grit eats the pad in a couple of hours.

My 300 quid bike now has an XT rear changer, XT rear mech, LX hubs,
Avid Arch Rival front brake, deore V rear, Brooks saddle, Nokian AWS
tyres, a cheap triple chainset in the right size, Deore front changer,
and a Klickfix bar bag mount. Plus a few other miscellaneous bits.

When I bought the bike I chose it based on the frame, figuring
everything else could get changed as and when. It has gone through (ie
I have replaced) three chainsets, two sets of cantis, half a set of V
brakes, one set of levers, 4 rear mechs, the worst of which lasted only
one week, 1 front mech, two sets of shifters, two sets of pedals
(heading for the third), one set of wheels,two bottom brackets, one set
of mudguards and one rack. I have rebuilt the forks (RST231 cheap
springy ones) a couple of times but they have now rusted solid. I have
lost count of the number of cables, brake blocks, chains and cassettes
that have beeen and gone. The handlebars and stem are now seized into
the top of the forks, fortunately the headset is still OK. It has done
probably 20-25K miles in its time.

...d

color you say no way. I got a yellow bike I know thats faster then any
red one. Color is in the eye of the beholder.

The best solution is GIANT IGUANA with RS Duke xc fork.

Quoted message said:

The best solution is GIANT IGUANA with RS Duke xc fork.

That will take my trailer hitch, child seat and front panniers?

And mudguards?

...d

David Martin said:

Quoted message said:

The best solution is GIANT IGUANA with RS Duke xc fork.

That will take my trailer hitch, child seat and front panniers?

And mudguards?

And pump, nestled under the top tube clipped into the frame?

R.