Whete lowcarb and lowfat diets intersect

Ignoramus4424 wrote:
:: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are sort of
:: opposites of one another. But not complete opposites.
:: Specifically, both diets forbid most junk foods (which
:: are typically combinations of fat and carbs) and pastry
:: as such, and place some emphasis on less processed foods.
:: I wonder if just giving up junk food and other foods
:: mentioned above is what accounts for much of their
:: success. Just curious.

Of course it is.

Ignoramus4424 said:

I wonder if just giving up junk food and other foods
mentioned above is what accounts for much of their success.

Low-carb junk food and low-fat junk food are both junk, and
it's a toss-up as to which is worse.

Even the low-fat advocates recognize that it is important to
remove sugar from the diet, even though they can't
understand why so-called 'complex' carbs (especially from
grain) are just as bad.

[email hidden] freshcoffee.bizfreshcoffee.bizOpen ↗

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ignoramus4424 wrote:
:: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are sort of
:: opposites of one another. But not complete opposites.
:: Specifically, both diets forbid most junk foods (which
:: are typically combinations of fat and carbs) and pastry
:: as such, and place some emphasis on less processed
:: foods. I wonder if just giving up junk food and other
:: foods mentioned above is what accounts for much of
:: their success. Just curious.

Of course it is.

Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and rarely ate
junk food. However, eating low fat through my body into
such blood sugar spikes and crashes that I began eating
junk food or would drink because of the depression caused
by the extreme crash in blood sugar. High carb is simply
bad for you, unless you can swing it and eat nothing but
vegetables (fruits cause my blood sugar to skyrocket).
Pasta and rice are evil.

--
Bob in CT Remove ".x" to reply

Bob in CT wrote:
:: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Ignoramus4424 wrote:
::::: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are sort
::::: of opposites of one another. But not complete
::::: opposites. Specifically, both diets forbid most junk
::::: foods (which are typically combinations of fat and
::::: carbs) and pastry as such, and place some emphasis on
::::: less processed foods. I wonder if just giving up junk
::::: food and other foods mentioned above is what accounts
::::: for much of their success. Just curious.
:::
::: Of course it is.
:::
:::
::
:: Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and rarely ate
:: junk food. However, eating low fat through my body into
:: such blood sugar spikes and crashes that I began eating
:: junk food or would drink because of the depression caused
:: by the extreme crash in blood sugar. High carb is simply
:: bad for you, unless you can swing it and eat nothing but
:: vegetables (fruits cause my blood sugar to skyrocket).
:: Pasta and rice are evil.

You need a diet for a diabetic, period.

The problem with low fat is that it's hard to stick to
(imo), but the fact that one quits eating junk food
contributes to whatever success anyone has with eating that
way. Same for low carb. I don't think the OP as asking which
is better, but was generally commenting on the merits of
cutting junk foods.

Roger Zoul said:

The problem with low fat is that it's hard to stick to
(imo), but the fact that one quits eating junk food
contributes to whatever success anyone has with eating
that way. Same for low carb. I don't think the OP as
asking which is better, but was generally commenting on
the merits of cutting junk foods.

Because a natural low-carb diet eschews white flour and
sugar, two of the principal ingredients in junk-foods, it
makes avoiding them a lot more of a default thing. With a
low-fat diet, at least the one I used to watch Susan Powter
espouse on her infomercials, where she would pick up a box
of (may I say this?) [censored] and teach you how to do the fat-
calorie math from the "Nutrition information", it pretty
much paves the way for junk food consumption.

IMO, with a low carbohydrate diet, the worst ingredients
are eliminated and one gets to have their EFAs and eat
them too. :-)

CM
--
The post you just read, unless otherwise noted, is strictly
my opinion and experience. Please interpret accordingly.

In article said:

Bob in CT wrote:
:: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Ignoramus4424 wrote:
::::: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are sort
::::: of opposites of one another. But not complete
::::: opposites. Specifically, both diets forbid most junk
::::: foods (which are typically combinations of fat and
::::: carbs) and pastry as such, and place some emphasis on
::::: less processed foods. I wonder if just giving up junk
::::: food and other foods mentioned above is what accounts
::::: for much of their success. Just curious.
:::
::: Of course it is.
:::
:::
::
:: Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and rarely ate
:: junk food. However, eating low fat through my body into
:: such blood sugar spikes and crashes that I began eating
:: junk food or would drink because of the depression
:: caused by the extreme crash in blood sugar. High carb is
:: simply bad for you, unless you can swing it and eat
:: nothing but vegetables (fruits cause my blood sugar to
:: skyrocket). Pasta and rice are evil.

You need a diet for a diabetic, period.

The problem with low fat is that it's hard to stick to
(imo), but the fact that one quits eating junk food
contributes to whatever success anyone has with eating
that way. Same for low carb. I don't think the OP as
asking which is better, but was generally commenting on
the merits of cutting junk foods.

you are correct with respect to the implication of my
original post.

i

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:45:21 GMT, Bob in CT
<[email hidden]> wrote: /snip/

Quoted message said:

I ate low fat for a long time and rarely ate junk food.
However, eating low fat through my body into such blood
sugar spikes and crashes that I began eating junk food or
would drink because of the depression caused by the extreme
crash in blood sugar.

Low fat could do that. Fat slows absorbtion of whatever
carbs you do eat, lessening spikes. Also I think the body
can make energy out of fat when needed, which might make the
crashes not quite as severe.

Quoted message said:

High carb is simply bad for you, unless you can swing it
and eat nothing but vegetables

What do you mean 'swing it'? Is there a high carb vegetarian
diet that works for blood sugar control?

Quoted message said:

(fruits cause my blood sugar to skyrocket). Pasta and rice
are evil.

Ain't it a shame.

Skinny

Roger Zoul wrote:
| Bob in CT wrote:
||| On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul
||| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|||
|||| Ignoramus4424 wrote:
|||||| Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are sort
|||||| of opposites of one another. But not complete
|||||| opposites. Specifically, both diets forbid most junk
|||||| foods (which are typically combinations of fat and
|||||| carbs) and pastry as such, and place some emphasis on
|||||| less processed foods. I wonder if just giving up junk
|||||| food and other foods mentioned above is what accounts
|||||| for much of their success. Just curious.
||||
|||| Of course it is.
||||
||||
|||
||| Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and rarely ate
||| junk food. However, eating low fat through my body into
||| such blood sugar spikes and crashes that I began eating
||| junk food or would drink because of the depression
||| caused by the extreme crash in blood sugar. High carb is
||| simply bad for you, unless you can swing it and eat
||| nothing but vegetables (fruits cause my blood sugar to
||| skyrocket). Pasta and rice are evil.
|
| You need a diet for a diabetic, period.
|

LOL! The diet he just described is what he AMA tells
diabetics to eat! Surreal, isn't it?

--
Peter
270/220/180 website: users.thelink.netmarengoOpen ↗

marengo wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Bob in CT wrote:
::::: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul
::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::
:::::: Ignoramus4424 wrote:
:::::::: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are
:::::::: sort of opposites of one another. But not complete
:::::::: opposites. Specifically, both diets forbid most
:::::::: junk foods (which are typically combinations of fat
:::::::: and carbs) and pastry as such, and place some
:::::::: emphasis on less processed foods. I wonder if just
:::::::: giving up junk food and other foods mentioned above
:::::::: is what accounts for much of their success. Just
:::::::: curious.
::::::
:::::: Of course it is.
::::::
::::::
:::::
::::: Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and rarely
::::: ate junk food. However, eating low fat through my body
::::: into such blood sugar spikes and crashes that I began
::::: eating junk food or would drink because of the
::::: depression caused by the extreme crash in blood sugar.
::::: High carb is simply bad for you, unless you can swing
::::: it and eat nothing but vegetables (fruits cause my
::::: blood sugar to skyrocket). Pasta and rice are evil.
:::
::: You need a diet for a diabetic, period.
:::
::
:: LOL! The diet he just described is what he AMA tells
:: diabetics to eat! Surreal, isn't it?

Well, surreal is a nice way to put it! I'd say something
like criminal! Luckily, we now know better....

In article said:

marengo wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Bob in CT wrote:
::::: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul
::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::
:::::: Ignoramus4424 wrote:
:::::::: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are
:::::::: sort of opposites of one another. But not complete
:::::::: opposites. Specifically, both diets forbid most
:::::::: junk foods (which are typically combinations of
:::::::: fat and carbs) and pastry as such, and place some
:::::::: emphasis on less processed foods. I wonder if just
:::::::: giving up junk food and other foods mentioned
:::::::: above is what accounts for much of their success.
:::::::: Just curious.
::::::
:::::: Of course it is.
::::::
::::::
:::::
::::: Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and rarely
::::: ate junk food. However, eating low fat through my
::::: body into such blood sugar spikes and crashes that I
::::: began eating junk food or would drink because of the
::::: depression caused by the extreme crash in blood
::::: sugar. High carb is simply bad for you, unless you
::::: can swing it and eat nothing but vegetables (fruits
::::: cause my blood sugar to skyrocket). Pasta and rice
::::: are evil.
:::
::: You need a diet for a diabetic, period.
:::
::
:: LOL! The diet he just described is what he AMA tells
:: diabetics to eat! Surreal, isn't it?

Well, surreal is a nice way to put it! I'd say something
like criminal! Luckily, we now know better....

I am curious, how did ADA come up with their diet
recommendation. Was there a solid thought process behind it?

i

Ignoramus31046 wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: marengo wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: Bob in CT wrote:
:::::::: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul
:::::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::::::::
::::::::: Ignoramus4424 wrote:
::::::::::: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are
::::::::::: sort of opposites of one another. But not
::::::::::: complete opposites. Specifically, both diets
::::::::::: forbid most junk foods (which are typically
::::::::::: combinations of fat and carbs) and pastry as
::::::::::: such, and place some emphasis on less processed
::::::::::: foods. I wonder if just giving up junk food and
::::::::::: other foods mentioned above is what accounts for
::::::::::: much of their success. Just curious.
:::::::::
::::::::: Of course it is.
:::::::::
:::::::::
::::::::
:::::::: Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and
:::::::: rarely ate junk food. However, eating low fat
:::::::: through my body into such blood sugar spikes and
:::::::: crashes that I began eating junk food or would
:::::::: drink because of the depression caused by the
:::::::: extreme crash in blood sugar. High carb is simply
:::::::: bad for you, unless you can swing it and eat
:::::::: nothing but vegetables (fruits cause my blood sugar
:::::::: to skyrocket). Pasta and rice are evil.
::::::
:::::: You need a diet for a diabetic, period.
::::::
:::::
::::: LOL! The diet he just described is what he AMA tells
::::: diabetics to eat! Surreal, isn't it?
:::
::: Well, surreal is a nice way to put it! I'd say something
::: like criminal! Luckily, we now know better....
:::
:::
:::
::
:: I am curious, how did ADA come up with their diet
:: recommendation. Was there a solid thought process
:: behind it?

By committee....with all members armed with the notion that
fat of any kind is bad....

In article said:

Ignoramus31046 wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]-
:: berlin.de>, Roger Zoul wrote:
::: marengo wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: Bob in CT wrote:
:::::::: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul
:::::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::::::::
::::::::: Ignoramus4424 wrote:
::::::::::: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are
::::::::::: sort of opposites of one another. But not
::::::::::: complete opposites. Specifically, both diets
::::::::::: forbid most junk foods (which are typically
::::::::::: combinations of fat and carbs) and pastry as
::::::::::: such, and place some emphasis on less processed
::::::::::: foods. I wonder if just giving up junk food and
::::::::::: other foods mentioned above is what accounts
::::::::::: for much of their success. Just curious.
:::::::::
::::::::: Of course it is.
:::::::::
:::::::::
::::::::
:::::::: Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and
:::::::: rarely ate junk food. However, eating low fat
:::::::: through my body into such blood sugar spikes and
:::::::: crashes that I began eating junk food or would
:::::::: drink because of the depression caused by the
:::::::: extreme crash in blood sugar. High carb is simply
:::::::: bad for you, unless you can swing it and eat
:::::::: nothing but vegetables (fruits cause my blood
:::::::: sugar to skyrocket). Pasta and rice are evil.
::::::
:::::: You need a diet for a diabetic, period.
::::::
:::::
::::: LOL! The diet he just described is what he AMA tells
::::: diabetics to eat! Surreal, isn't it?
:::
::: Well, surreal is a nice way to put it! I'd say
::: something like criminal! Luckily, we now know
::: better....
:::
:::
:::
::
:: I am curious, how did ADA come up with their diet
:: recommendation. Was there a solid thought process
:: behind it?

By committee....with all members armed with the notion
that fat of any kind is bad....

does not sound like a trustworthy organization, to me.

i

On 20 Apr 2004 15:02:12 GMT, Ignoramus4424
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are sort of
opposites of one another. But not complete opposites.
Specifically, both diets forbid most junk foods (which are
typically combinations of fat and carbs) and pastry as
such, and place some emphasis on less processed foods. I
wonder if just giving up junk food and other foods
mentioned above is what accounts for much of their success.
Just curious.

i

I suspect this might be quite true. The optimal diet is
somewhere in the middle. The fats and carbs contained in the
vareid wholefood diet should give you all you need.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 17:47:18 GMT, Howard <[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

Ignoramus4424 said:

I wonder if just giving up junk food and other foods
mentioned above is what accounts for much of their
success.

Low-carb junk food and low-fat junk food are both junk, and
it's a toss-up as to which is worse.

Even the low-fat advocates recognize that it is important
to remove sugar from the diet, even though they can't
understand why so-called 'complex' carbs (especially from
grain) are just as bad.

Bad in what respect?

Within a varied diet there is no problem.

Moosh:) said:

I suspect this might be quite true. The optimal diet is
somewhere in the middle. The fats and carbs

For those who have read the Atkins website or book, that is
the ultimate goal of the later phases of the process. Too
many people think that the induction (2 week) phase of
Atkins *is* the entire diet. But Atkins is a process: not a
diet/menu. The later stages, and pre-maintenance phases,
include quite a lot of things in a varied wholefood diet.

CM
--
The post you just read, unless otherwise noted, is strictly
my opinion and experience. Please interpret accordingly.

On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:45:21 GMT, Bob in CT <[email hidden]>
posted:

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

Ignoramus4424 wrote:
:: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are sort
:: of opposites of one another. But not complete
:: opposites. Specifically, both diets forbid most junk
:: foods (which are typically combinations of fat and
:: carbs) and pastry as such, and place some emphasis on
:: less processed foods. I wonder if just giving up junk
:: food and other foods mentioned above is what accounts
:: for much of their success. Just curious.

Of course it is.

Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and rarely ate
junk food. However, eating low fat through my body into
such blood sugar spikes and crashes that I began eating
junk food or would drink because of the depression caused
by the extreme crash in blood sugar. High carb is simply
bad for you,

No, bad for YOU! For obvious reasons.

Quoted message said:

unless you can swing it and eat nothing but vegetables
(fruits cause my blood sugar to skyrocket). Pasta and rice
are evil.

To you. Please live with it and stop trying to extrapolate
your therapeutic needs to the rest of the population.

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 04:24:09 GMT, "marengo" <[email hidden]>
posted:

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul wrote:
| Bob in CT wrote:
||| On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul
||| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|||
|||| Ignoramus4424 wrote:
|||||| Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are sort
|||||| of opposites of one another. But not complete
|||||| opposites. Specifically, both diets forbid most junk
|||||| foods (which are typically combinations of fat and
|||||| carbs) and pastry as such, and place some emphasis
|||||| on less processed foods. I wonder if just giving up
|||||| junk food and other foods mentioned above is what
|||||| accounts for much of their success. Just curious.
||||
|||| Of course it is.
||||
||||
|||
||| Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and rarely
||| ate junk food. However, eating low fat through my body
||| into such blood sugar spikes and crashes that I began
||| eating junk food or would drink because of the
||| depression caused by the extreme crash in blood sugar.
||| High carb is simply bad for you, unless you can swing
||| it and eat nothing but vegetables (fruits cause my
||| blood sugar to skyrocket). Pasta and rice are evil.
|
| You need a diet for a diabetic, period.
|

LOL! The diet he just described is what he AMA tells
diabetics to eat! Surreal, isn't it?

Which diabetics?

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 14:49:53 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

marengo wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Bob in CT wrote:
::::: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul
::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::
:::::: Ignoramus4424 wrote:
:::::::: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are
:::::::: sort of opposites of one another. But not complete
:::::::: opposites. Specifically, both diets forbid most
:::::::: junk foods (which are typically combinations of
:::::::: fat and carbs) and pastry as such, and place some
:::::::: emphasis on less processed foods. I wonder if just
:::::::: giving up junk food and other foods mentioned
:::::::: above is what accounts for much of their success.
:::::::: Just curious.
::::::
:::::: Of course it is.
::::::
::::::
:::::
::::: Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and rarely
::::: ate junk food. However, eating low fat through my
::::: body into such blood sugar spikes and crashes that I
::::: began eating junk food or would drink because of the
::::: depression caused by the extreme crash in blood
::::: sugar. High carb is simply bad for you, unless you
::::: can swing it and eat nothing but vegetables (fruits
::::: cause my blood sugar to skyrocket). Pasta and rice
::::: are evil.
:::
::: You need a diet for a diabetic, period.
:::
::
:: LOL! The diet he just described is what he AMA tells
:: diabetics to eat! Surreal, isn't it?

Well, surreal is a nice way to put it! I'd say something
like criminal! Luckily, we now know better....

But which diabetics are we talking about?

On 21 Apr 2004 19:04:32 GMT, Ignoramus31046
<[email hidden]> posted:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Zoul said:

marengo wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Bob in CT wrote:
::::: On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:42:14 -0400, Roger Zoul
::::: <[email hidden]> wrote:
:::::
:::::: Ignoramus4424 wrote:
:::::::: Obviously, low carb diets and low fat diets are
:::::::: sort of opposites of one another. But not
:::::::: complete opposites. Specifically, both diets
:::::::: forbid most junk foods (which are typically
:::::::: combinations of fat and carbs) and pastry as
:::::::: such, and place some emphasis on less processed
:::::::: foods. I wonder if just giving up junk food and
:::::::: other foods mentioned above is what accounts for
:::::::: much of their success. Just curious.
::::::
:::::: Of course it is.
::::::
::::::
:::::
::::: Not really. I ate low fat for a long time and rarely
::::: ate junk food. However, eating low fat through my
::::: body into such blood sugar spikes and crashes that I
::::: began eating junk food or would drink because of the
::::: depression caused by the extreme crash in blood
::::: sugar. High carb is simply bad for you, unless you
::::: can swing it and eat nothing but vegetables (fruits
::::: cause my blood sugar to skyrocket). Pasta and rice
::::: are evil.
:::
::: You need a diet for a diabetic, period.
:::
::
:: LOL! The diet he just described is what he AMA tells
:: diabetics to eat! Surreal, isn't it?

Well, surreal is a nice way to put it! I'd say something
like criminal! Luckily, we now know better....

I am curious, how did ADA come up with their diet
recommendation. Was there a solid thought process
behind it?

Perhaps confusing the recommended diet for type ones and
type twos taking insulin?