Where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys, gutters andsidewalks

[Steve Ball]

Tom Keats:

> In article <C4327B94.21839%[email protected]>,
> Steve Ball <[email protected]> writes:
>> Tom Keats:
>>
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> [email protected] (Don Klipstein) writes:
>>>
>>>> The main offense of cyclists against cars is running red lights while
>>>> cars that have green lights have expectations of right-of-way.
>>>
>>> ********! Riders do /not/ suicidally barge into
>>> cross traffic. No rational person does.
>>
>> He didn't say they did. Just that they stop bikes run far more red lights
>> than cars generally do.
>
> If a vehicle operator goes through a red light at a minor
> intersection when there's no cross-traffic, where's the harm?

I guess the harm is that's what good for the goose has to be good for the
gander. If cyclists can decide which traffic signs to obey and when, why not
motorists? I mean, if I car goes through a red light when there's no traffic
on then intersecting road, where's the harm? Do you want to apply this to
speed limits too? (Cyclists - even me - regularly exceed the posted 30 kph
in Sydney's Centennial park; motorists get booked.)

We have fundamentally different views here in that I enjoy my car, whereas
you never want to own one, but try to make room for that not all motorists
are the enemy but many, like a lot of people people, if you choose to make
them so, will accept the mantle.

Steve = : ^ )

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 14, 6:12 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
> on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
> there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
> was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
> have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
> insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
> just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
> its bridges! No more biking on that road, or any other road shared
> with traffic. Predators like this will always be encouraged to
> mistreat cyclists due to the lack of respect given to us. No more than
> blacks that were forced to ride in the back of buses...
>
> NOTE: For the reasons given above, I do NOT recommend that you give
> the finger to anyone. Not because they don't deserve it, but because
> the lion is waiting for any excuse to eat the monkey. Instead, I do
> recommend you give them the finger in a nice civilized way. Something
> like "You can eat my banana" on the back of the T-shirt will still
> give them the finger, but with vaseline, so to speak.
>
> That was my best route out... I've found instead an alley that takes me
> into town. That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys,
> gutters and sidewalks.
>
> WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION? http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
>
> BIKE FOR PEACEhttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace

An irate driver ran over a bicyclist in southern Illinois in the
mid-90's.

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 21, 12:36 am, Gunner Asch <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:51:14 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Road rage runs rampant
> >on Bay Area highways
>
> Say...isnt the Bay Area a hotbed of Liberalism?
>
> So why are they so much more violent than everyone else?

I'm afraid some pro-gun conservatives have been sneaking in from the
red states...

Hey, wait a minute, California is kind of a red state. But they got a
smart Republican. The political jungle is very complex, I tell you.

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 21, 12:25 am, Bob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Apr 20, 5:49 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > One of the problems we've got is that everybody is armed and
> > dangerous.
>
> Hyperbole must be part of the Troll's Rules of Conduct. If "everybody
> is armed and dangerous" every day should be one gigantic bloodbath
> with hundreds of thousands killed or maimed yet that isn't the case.

There are such a bad combination: BAD LAWS + CARS + GUNS = DEATH &
FEAR

Yep, bad laws --or lack of good laws-- start the cycle of violence.
Case in point is the lack of legislation or enforcement about passing
laws. Here's what's going on in my particular city that shouldn't be
much different from your average American city...

> Miami is such a sprawling area. I don’t see how, even in the best possible circumstances, how the ENTIRE city could be bike-friendly.

Politicians and officers don’t care about bikes, one way or the other.
There ain’t much money in it. And basically you are at the good will
of drivers, who often feel cyclists are, at best, a nuisance.

But ALL IS NEEDED IS THE RIGHT LAWS, one that let’s you pass on the
left when in a hurry, and go slow on the right --as slow as 20mph if
we want to accomodate scooters and bikes. That’s THE WAY THEY DO IT IN
CIVILIZED COUNTRIES, not in the Banana Republics…

Road Rage Bill Clears Committee

A bill aimed at curbing road rage made it through its first Senate
committee, though similar legislation has stalled in recent years.

The legislation would attempt to reduce road rage by requiring drivers
to move out of the farthest lane left when being overtaken by faster
vehicles. It also would improve the flow of traffic, said the bill’s
sponsor, Sen. Mike Bennett, R-Bradenton.

One problem with the bill is that a person driving the legal speed
limit could be ticketed for not pulling over for someone who is
exceeding it, said Sen. Alex Villalobos, R-Miami, who voted against
the bill. The bill would also cause problems during rush hour because
there’s always someone in the left lane wanting to pass the car in
front of him, he said.

The Senate Committee on Transportation approved the bill (SB 658) with
a vote of 4-3. A similar House bill (HB 1177) passed its first
committee last week. The bill has several more stops before making it
to the floor of either chamber.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20080326/NEWS/803260577/1374


>
> > Until this point, the worst I got for cutting someone off was the
> > finger, not a bullet in the chest.
>
> The inference to be drawn from this would seem to be that you've
> recently been shot for cutting someone off in traffic. In that case,
> best wishes for a speedy recovery- and stop cutting people off.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Hunt

I simply quoted that article, but I share his concern. Settling
something with a finger or a gun are two different things.

The result of the equation above is that people are exposed to a real
threat, particularly if they assert their right with a finger. And
while few people actually get shot, the rest of the population live in
fear. Particularly the cyclists.

And we would have to start with changing the laws of the republic...

 

[ComandanteBanana]

The only hope the cyclists got is that things get bad enough in the
international jungle. Yep, what may be bad news for the Stupid
Unnecessary Vehicles, may be good news for the smart and efficient
cyclits...

Oil prices spike to record above $117
Monday April 21, 9:53 am ET

Oil prices climb to record above $117 a barrel after Mideast attack on
Japanese oil tanker

Oil prices spiked to a record above $117 a barrel on Monday after a
Japanese oil tanker was attacked off the east coast of Yemen.
The 150,000-ton tanker Takayama was attacked about 270 miles off the
Yemen coast in the Gulf of Aden while it was heading for Saudi Arabia,
its Japanese operator, Nippon Yusen K.K., said in a statement posted
on its Web site.

***

But no need to cry over the soccer moms. They can use something like
this...

(cute, no?)

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...=bicycle+suv&start=20&ndsp=20&um=1&hl=en&sa=N

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 21, 2:35 am, Harry Brogan
<hbrogan57_AT_NOSPAM_DOT_YAHOO_DOT_COM> wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:25:50 -0700 (PDT), Bob <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Apr 20, 5:49 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
> >wrote:
> >> One of the problems we've got is that everybody is armed and
> >> dangerous.
>
> >Hyperbole must be part of the Troll's Rules of Conduct. If "everybody
> >is armed and dangerous" every day should be one gigantic bloodbath
> >with hundreds of thousands killed or maimed yet that isn't the case.
>
> >> Until this point, the worst I got for cutting someone off was the
> >> finger, not a bullet in the chest.
>
> >The inference to be drawn from this would seem to be that you've
> >recently been shot for cutting someone off in traffic. In that case,
> >best wishes for a speedy recovery- and stop cutting people off.
>
> >Regards,
> >Bob Hunt
>
> It's only relatively recently, here in the U.S., that people have not
> been able to be "armed" while out and about. I don't recall reading
> anywhere about the "old west" being a blood bath.
> __o | Every time I see an adult on a bicycle....
> _`\(,_ | I no longer despair for the human race.
> (_)/ (_) | ---H.G. Wells---- Hide quoted text -

Well, it seems to have been pretty wild...

I don't think many travellers would have dared ride a horse alone. No
safer than riding a bike in traffic today.

That's why "circle the wagons" came to be a popular saying.

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 21, 6:48 am, Steve Ball <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> I guess the harm is that's what good for the goose has to be good for the
> gander. If cyclists can decide which traffic signs to obey and when, why not
> motorists? I mean, if I car goes through a red light when there's no traffic
> on then intersecting road, where's the harm? Do you want to apply this to
> speed limits too? (Cyclists - even me - regularly exceed the posted 30 kph
> in Sydney's Centennial park; motorists get booked.)

From what I see here in America, what's good for the goose is indeed
good for the gander. That is, everyone violates traffic laws.

I have a stop sign less than 100 yards from where I'm typing this.
Only about half the motorists come to a complete stop. I regularly
see motorists going through red lights. That's most often by
squeezing through a fresh red before cross traffic starts up, but I
regularly see deliberate disobedience of a light that was long red
(including one memorable one by a cop - no siren or emergency lights;
he just didn't want to wait). I see a majority of motorists exceeding
speed limits, and neglecting turn signals before turning or changing
lanes. I regularly see motorists violating the laws in other ways as
well - the list could go on and on.

Bicyclists and pedestrians do the same, of course. I believe the
major difference is not in frequency of disobedience, but in
consequences of disobedience. Bicyclists and pedestrians almost never
injure anyone but themselves by their mistakes. Motorists in America
routinely kill tens of thousands per year.

(However, that's does NOT give credence to the "bicycling is
dangerous!!!" nonsense. Most of those killed by motorists are
motorists. Only a very few are cyclists.)

In summary: People will not be perfect in their obedience to laws,
whether they are on foot, on two wheels or on four (or more). Yes,
the legal system does generally concentrate on motorist violations,
but that's only logical, since motorist offenses are the ones that do
almost all the harm.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 04:19:50 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>>
>> And everyone who has ever drivin a motor vehicle around bike riders
>> has had the bike riders bully them.
>
>I have never seen that - ever! Some cyclists are stupid as hell and
>therefore do stupid things, but a cyclist is no match for anyone driving a
>motor vehicle.
>[...]

As retarded and arrogant as you have shown yourself to be, your denial
is observed with amused contempt.

A cyclist is no match for a motor vehicle. Gee Edtard..Im glad we
finally agree on something.

Best keep it in mind, and pass it along to your fellow riders..or
potential organ donors as it were.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:55:38 -0700 (PDT),
[email protected] wrote:

>On Apr 14, 6:12 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
>> on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
>> there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
>> was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
>> have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
>> insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
>> just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
>> its bridges! No more biking on that road, or any other road shared
>> with traffic. Predators like this will always be encouraged to
>> mistreat cyclists due to the lack of respect given to us. No more than
>> blacks that were forced to ride in the back of buses...
>>
>> NOTE: For the reasons given above, I do NOT recommend that you give
>> the finger to anyone. Not because they don't deserve it, but because
>> the lion is waiting for any excuse to eat the monkey. Instead, I do
>> recommend you give them the finger in a nice civilized way. Something
>> like "You can eat my banana" on the back of the T-shirt will still
>> give them the finger, but with vaseline, so to speak.
>>
>> That was my best route out... I've found instead an alley that takes me
>> into town. That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys,
>> gutters and sidewalks.
>>
>> WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION? http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
>>
>> BIKE FOR PEACEhttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace
>
>An irate driver ran over a bicyclist in southern Illinois in the
>mid-90's.


Yes and?

A biker caused a multicar vehicle accident resulting in the death of a
mother and child in the same time period.

So?

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

 

[Cindy Hamilton]

On Apr 20, 11:30 am, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
wrote:
> OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution (the
> trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas for the
> lions.

Bring your trike up here to Detroit, Comandante. We usually relegate
bicyclists to the morgue.

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 05:27:51 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Apr 21, 12:36 am, Gunner Asch <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:51:14 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Road rage runs rampant
>> >on Bay Area highways
>>
>> Say...isnt the Bay Area a hotbed of Liberalism?
>>
>> So why are they so much more violent than everyone else?
>
>I'm afraid some pro-gun conservatives have been sneaking in from the
>red states...
>
>Hey, wait a minute, California is kind of a red state. But they got a
>smart Republican. The political jungle is very complex, I tell you.

The urban areas of California ARE Red sectors. They attract
leftwingers like flies to garbage.

The rest of the state of course, is mostly blue. We here in
California, like to think of the Urban areas as reservations where we
keep the leftwingers, so they cant do too much harm. Now if we could
do something about the leftwingers controlling the government in
Sacramento. Aaaanold is hardly a Conservative btw..at best, he is a
moderate Democrat who votes Republican.

Given that the Bay Area is a hotbed of Liberalism..San Fran being a
hotbed of ultra far leftwing extremist fringe kooks, and given that
most homicides in Californa are committed by minority
members..minorities that historically vote Democrat, its quite obvious
that leftwingers are homicidal maniacs.

Shrug...which is why I dont live in a major urban area, but simply
work there.
And legally carry a concealed firearm on my person, daily.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

 

[Dan]

Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:29:51 -0500, "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>> But thats the typical arrogance of many bike riders. They simply
>>> cannot stand critism for their elitist outlook or their arrogance and
>>> utter stupidity.
>>>
>>> No wonder many die as the result of their actions. Darwin events
>>> actually.
>>>
>>> Pity
>>>
>>> Gunner, who rides Cannondale, Trek, Paramount, but doesnt try to bully
>>> vehicles outweighing him by many tons.
>> Nor do I! But you have a peculiar attitude for someone who rides bicycles.
>> Every cyclist who has ever ridden his bike on the open road has experienced
>> motorists who bully them because they do not want them on the road - period!
>> It is a wonder to me that more cyclists do not track down such motorists and
>> literally murder them!
>
> And everyone who has ever drivin a motor vehicle around bike riders
> has had the bike riders bully them.

Aw, poor Runner. So sad to be coward...

Those big manly guys on their 30 lb bicycles are such bullies,
especially when confronted by wimps in multi-ton masses of steel powered
by hundreds of horsepower.

Yeah...

> Its a wonder to me that they simply dont just twitch the wheel a
> smidge, far more often than they do.

What an asshole. Of course we knew that, but the fact that you
broadcast it as though you were proud of it.

Wow! Just "wow."

> You are a paranoid nutcase Dedward and a Darwin event waiting to
> happen.

Well, I have seen a friend run off the road. He came within inches of
probable death or severe injury. A friend was run over recently. She
was a pedestrian.

Face it, many people driving cars just do not take much care. I've
always taught my kids to be respectful of those without armor, but I
also tell them it is better to be alive than right. YMMV.

Dan

 

[Dan]

Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 15:51:14 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Road rage runs rampant
>> on Bay Area highways
>
> Say...isnt the Bay Area a hotbed of Liberalism?

Somewhat.

> So why are they so much more violent than everyone else?

I fail to perceive of a single comparative in his statement.

Injecting a little editorial comment where it doesn't belong, eh?

Dan

> Gunner
>
>
> "[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
> would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
> methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
> power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
> problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
> they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
> wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
> want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
> Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
> rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
> complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
> that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
> correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
> competing factions of Islamic
> fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
> forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
> and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 21, 2:23 pm, Cindy Hamilton <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Apr 20, 11:30 am, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > OK, I finally took delivery of official vehicle of the revolution (the
> > trike), with plenty of space in the basket to carry bananas for the
> > lions.
>
> Bring your trike up here to Detroit, Comandante.  We usually relegate
> bicyclists to the morgue.

No way, I rather go into the Congo jungle or even Iraqi jungle. A
bunch a killers in Detroit. They even killed the electric car!

 

[ComandanteBanana]

On Apr 21, 11:29 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Apr 21, 6:48 am, Steve Ball <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I guess the harm is that's what good for the goose has to be good for the
> > gander. If cyclists can decide which traffic signs to obey and when, whynot
> > motorists? I mean, if I car goes through a red light when there's no traffic
> > on then intersecting road, where's the harm? Do you want to apply this to
> > speed limits too? (Cyclists - even me - regularly exceed the posted 30 kph
> > in Sydney's Centennial park; motorists get booked.)
>
> From what I see here in America, what's good for the goose is indeed
> good for the gander.  That is, everyone violates traffic laws.
>
> I have a stop sign less than 100 yards from where I'm typing this.
> Only about half the motorists come to a complete stop.  I regularly
> see motorists going through red lights.  That's most often by
> squeezing through a fresh red before cross traffic starts up, but I
> regularly see deliberate disobedience of a light that was long red
> (including one memorable one by a cop - no siren or emergency lights;
> he just didn't want to wait).  I see a majority of motorists exceeding
> speed limits, and neglecting turn signals before turning or changing
> lanes.  I regularly see motorists violating the laws in other ways as
> well - the list could go on and on.
>
> Bicyclists and pedestrians do the same, of course.  I believe the
> major difference is not in frequency of disobedience, but in
> consequences of disobedience.  Bicyclists and pedestrians almost never
> injure anyone but themselves by their mistakes.  Motorists in America
> routinely kill tens of thousands per year.
>
> (However, that's does NOT give credence to the "bicycling is
> dangerous!!!" nonsense.  Most of those killed by motorists are
> motorists.  Only a very few are cyclists.)
>
> In summary:  People will not be perfect in their obedience to laws,
> whether they are on foot, on two wheels or on four (or more).  Yes,
> the legal system does generally concentrate on motorist violations,
> but that's only logical, since motorist offenses are the ones that do
> almost all the harm.
>
> - Frank Krygowski

I've thought we'd never agree on something.

What is it we disagree on? Oh, that riding a bike in traffic is safe.
But how can it be if drivers routinely ignore the laws, or simply
there are no good laws?

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 13:14:34 -0700 (PDT), ComandanteBanana
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>
>> The big question is now..since you are much lower than before..how is
>> your visibility to other vehicles? Id hope you have a flag on a stick
>> of some sort to attempt to catch the attention of other vehicle
>> operators.
>>
>> A friend of mine builds recombent bikes, and has had some really close
>> calls because of the lower profile and lower visiblity. He now puts a
>> flag on a bit of graphite tent pole when interacting with motor
>> vehicles.  The is the reason many of the electric powered chair riders
>> do this as well. If you blend in...you wont be seen.
>>
>> Gunner

>
>No, this is not a recumbent, just semi-recumbent. High enough to see
>and be seen.

Perhaps you might wish to have somone ride your trike, while you
follow in a high profile vehicle such as an SUV, to determine just how
visible your ride really is? Try not to run over him/her.
>
>It's nicer than I was lead to believe by articles about uprights.
>Maybe the small difference in the pedals makes the difference.

Shrug

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

 

[[email protected]]

On Apr 21, 4:41 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Apr 21, 11:29 am, [email protected] wrote:
>
>
> > From what I see here in America, what's good for the goose is indeed
> > good for the gander. That is, everyone violates traffic laws.
>
> > I have a stop sign less than 100 yards from where I'm typing this.
> > Only about half the motorists come to a complete stop. I regularly
> > see motorists going through red lights. That's most often by
> > squeezing through a fresh red before cross traffic starts up, but I
> > regularly see deliberate disobedience of a light that was long red
> > (including one memorable one by a cop - no siren or emergency lights;
> > he just didn't want to wait). I see a majority of motorists exceeding
> > speed limits, and neglecting turn signals before turning or changing
> > lanes. I regularly see motorists violating the laws in other ways as
> > well - the list could go on and on.
>
> > Bicyclists and pedestrians do the same, of course. I believe the
> > major difference is not in frequency of disobedience, but in
> > consequences of disobedience. Bicyclists and pedestrians almost never
> > injure anyone but themselves by their mistakes. Motorists in America
> > routinely kill tens of thousands per year.
>
> > (However, that's does NOT give credence to the "bicycling is
> > dangerous!!!" nonsense. Most of those killed by motorists are
> > motorists. Only a very few are cyclists.)
>
> > In summary: People will not be perfect in their obedience to laws,
> > whether they are on foot, on two wheels or on four (or more). Yes,
> > the legal system does generally concentrate on motorist violations,
> > but that's only logical, since motorist offenses are the ones that do
> > almost all the harm.
>
> > - Frank Krygowski
>
> I've thought we'd never agree on something.
>
> What is it we disagree on? Oh, that riding a bike in traffic is safe.
> But how can it be if drivers routinely ignore the laws, or simply
> there are no good laws?

You confuse disobedience with danger.

To evaluate disobedience of laws related to a given activity, you
observe people and see how often they disobey the laws applying to
that activity.

To evaluate the danger of an activity, you observe how much time
people spend in the activity, and you count how often they are killed
or seriously injured per unit time.

Bicyclists are very, very rarely killed or seriously injured. Again:
roughly fifteen MILLION miles of cycling per fatality. Alternately,
dedicated riders that do over 2500 miles per year, including commuting
in traffic, average 11 years between accidents that cost a mere $50.

Most people are pretty inept at cycling. But still, they don't get
seriously injured or killed. The most typical bike injury is a
skinned knee.

Even someone as fearful as you should be able to deal with the
occasional skinned knee. So again: quit whining.

- Frank Krygowski

 

[Tom Sherman]

Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:55:38 -0700 (PDT),
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Apr 14, 6:12 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
>>> on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
>>> there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
>>> was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
>>> have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
>>> insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
>>> just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
>>> its bridges! No more biking on that road, or any other road shared
>>> with traffic. Predators like this will always be encouraged to
>>> mistreat cyclists due to the lack of respect given to us. No more than
>>> blacks that were forced to ride in the back of buses...
>>>
>>> NOTE: For the reasons given above, I do NOT recommend that you give
>>> the finger to anyone. Not because they don't deserve it, but because
>>> the lion is waiting for any excuse to eat the monkey. Instead, I do
>>> recommend you give them the finger in a nice civilized way. Something
>>> like "You can eat my banana" on the back of the T-shirt will still
>>> give them the finger, but with vaseline, so to speak.
>>>
>>> That was my best route out... I've found instead an alley that takes me
>>> into town. That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys,
>>> gutters and sidewalks.
>>>
>>> WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION? http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
>>>
>>> BIKE FOR PEACEhttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace
>> An irate driver ran over a bicyclist in southern Illinois in the
>> mid-90's.
>
>
> Yes and?
>
> A biker caused a multicar vehicle accident resulting in the death of a
> mother and child in the same time period.
>
What type of motorcycle was the biker riding?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful

 

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:40:55 -0500, Tom Sherman
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:55:38 -0700 (PDT),
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> On Apr 14, 6:12 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
>>>> on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
>>>> there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
>>>> was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
>>>> have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
>>>> insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
>>>> just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
>>>> its bridges! No more biking on that road, or any other road shared
>>>> with traffic. Predators like this will always be encouraged to
>>>> mistreat cyclists due to the lack of respect given to us. No more than
>>>> blacks that were forced to ride in the back of buses...
>>>>
>>>> NOTE: For the reasons given above, I do NOT recommend that you give
>>>> the finger to anyone. Not because they don't deserve it, but because
>>>> the lion is waiting for any excuse to eat the monkey. Instead, I do
>>>> recommend you give them the finger in a nice civilized way. Something
>>>> like "You can eat my banana" on the back of the T-shirt will still
>>>> give them the finger, but with vaseline, so to speak.
>>>>
>>>> That was my best route out... I've found instead an alley that takes me
>>>> into town. That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys,
>>>> gutters and sidewalks.
>>>>
>>>> WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION? http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
>>>>
>>>> BIKE FOR PEACEhttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace
>>> An irate driver ran over a bicyclist in southern Illinois in the
>>> mid-90's.
>>
>>
>> Yes and?
>>
>> A biker caused a multicar vehicle accident resulting in the death of a
>> mother and child in the same time period.
>>
>What type of motorcycle was the biker riding?

A Schwinn as I recall, when I worked the accident investigation.

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

 

[Tom Sherman]

Gunner Asch wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:40:55 -0500, Tom Sherman
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Gunner Asch wrote:
>>> On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:55:38 -0700 (PDT),
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Apr 14, 6:12 pm, ComandanteBanana <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Just Saturday morning I was almost attacked for doing the right thing
>>>>> on the Causeway to Hell (the name is due to the many incidents I had
>>>>> there, this being the third one that day). The guy blew the horn as I
>>>>> was riding the bike nicely, and I gave him the finger. I shouldn't
>>>>> have, but he didn't have to harass me with the horn. He stopped,
>>>>> insulted me, wanted to fight me, and spit at me before taking off. It
>>>>> just happens that I'm supposed to walk the bike on the sidewalk across
>>>>> its bridges! No more biking on that road, or any other road shared
>>>>> with traffic. Predators like this will always be encouraged to
>>>>> mistreat cyclists due to the lack of respect given to us. No more than
>>>>> blacks that were forced to ride in the back of buses...
>>>>>
>>>>> NOTE: For the reasons given above, I do NOT recommend that you give
>>>>> the finger to anyone. Not because they don't deserve it, but because
>>>>> the lion is waiting for any excuse to eat the monkey. Instead, I do
>>>>> recommend you give them the finger in a nice civilized way. Something
>>>>> like "You can eat my banana" on the back of the T-shirt will still
>>>>> give them the finger, but with vaseline, so to speak.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was my best route out... I've found instead an alley that takes me
>>>>> into town. That's where the cyclists in America belong: back alleys,
>>>>> gutters and sidewalks.
>>>>>
>>>>> WHY THE BANANA REVOLUTION? http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
>>>>>
>>>>> BIKE FOR PEACEhttp://webspawner.com/users/bikeforpeace
>>>> An irate driver ran over a bicyclist in southern Illinois in the
>>>> mid-90's.
>>>
>>> Yes and?
>>>
>>> A biker caused a multicar vehicle accident resulting in the death of a
>>> mother and child in the same time period.
>>>
>> What type of motorcycle was the biker riding?
>
> A Schwinn as I recall, when I worked the accident investigation.
>
When did Schwinn make motorcycles?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful