When to replace jockeys?

On 20 May 2004 22:00:38 GMT, David Reuteler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian said:

Is it friction? I was under the impression that Campy
levers offered more trim (such as I requested) but were
indexed, not friction...

they're not indexed, but nor are they friction. its a kind
of ratchet, each click moves the f/d a small amount .. it's
like 3 to 5 clicks per chainring (i have a triple). i (and
i would guess most people) like it quite a bit more than
the shimano setup. it's certainly not a true friction
system with an infinite number of locations. it's finite.

My Shimano 105 levers offer two to three clicks per
chainring ring (also triple), but only on upshifts (pull the
cable). I'd classify Campy as indexed, just with more stops
(and presumably they can be accessed in both directions).

I have a screwdriver that drives in one direction, and
freewheels in the other direction, but does NOT have any
clickyness whatsoever. It is reversible with the rotation of
a selector switch. I have a vague guess that it's got a
clutch inside that contracts with rotation, or pawls that
don't require detentes. I won't disassemble it, however,
because it's the only one I have, and I don't know where to
buy a replacement.

I have some tie-down belts, like the ratchet straps common
in heavy duty cargo securing applications, except the buckle
holds them with friction. For that matter, I think I once
had a cloth pants belt with a similar buckle. The spring-
loaded buckle is shaped to easily allow the belt to pass
through in one direction, but it's knurled surface digs in
and gets tighter when the belt is pulled in the other
direction. By pressing down on the opposite end, it's forced
to open and allow the cable through. I imagine similar
mechanisms, 2 or 4 of them per cable, used in a friction
brifter. Such would allow an infinite location ability.

Of course, that would be fixing a problem that already has
a sufficient fix, in the form of Campy's 3-5 click per
ring indexing.
--
Rick Onanian

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The front derailleur is good enough for what it does,
comparatively rare shifts befween two or three big gears,
but it's more prone to catastrophe and seems to benefit
from the easily wiggled friction shifter, as opposed to
the routinely indexed rear cluster.

This reminds me...when is Shimano going to offer trim
in BOTH directions? I do okay, but trimming down would
be nice.

Hi Rick, they already do offer trim in both directions. My
Dura-Ace triple can be trimmed in either direction, in
middle and large chainrings. If I am in the large chainring,
with the FD all the way to the outside, I can lightly press
the inner lever and it will move slightly in. The next step
is to shift down to the middle chainring.

If your cable is too tight it won't work properly. I was
having problems with the FD skipping the middle ring.
Troubleshooting recommends tightening the cable by
turning the barrel adjuster. It would work for a while,
but if I tightened it too much I lost the ability to trim
to the inside.

This problem was really bothering me and I was going to
start over. I turned the barrel adjuster all the way back in
and rechecked the top adjustment. What I finally discovered
was that I had adjusted the outer stop, so that when I was
in the large ring and smallest cog, I set it to have a
clearance of about 1mm, as Shimano recommended. Well
thinking about it, when I trimmed it in one click, I had
rubbing on the outer cage and it stood to reason that the
next click was taking it too far in. So, often it would drop
just past catching the middle ring.

I readjusted it so that the outer stop was further out. It
then shifted better in all ways, with less cable tension. It
now trims in all directions, smoothly, and most importantly,
during my last five rides and now 100 miles, it has never
missed the middle ring.

I can't remember exactly how it worked, but I do know that
my Tiagra brifters also trimmed in both directions, but with
less options. I think the DA triple might offer the most
trim positions.

I think you need to find out exactly how your Ultegra[?] or
105[?] shifter is designed to work and then start over. It
seems the less tension on the cable the better. No tighter
than necessary. I think that you are going to be pleasantly
surprised.

Life is Good! Jeff

Rick Onanian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The front derailleur is good enough for what it does,
comparatively rare shifts befween two or three big gears,
but it's more prone to catastrophe and seems to benefit
from the easily wiggled friction shifter, as opposed to
the routinely indexed rear cluster.

This reminds me...when is Shimano going to offer trim
in BOTH directions? I do okay, but trimming down would
be nice.

Hi Rick, they already do offer trim in both directions. My
Dura-Ace triple can be trimmed in either direction, in
middle and large chainrings. If I am in the large chainring,
with the FD all the way to the outside, I can lightly press
the inner lever and it will move slightly in. The next step
is to shift down to the middle chainring.

If your cable is too tight it won't work properly. I was
having problems with the FD skipping the middle ring.
Troubleshooting recommends tightening the cable by
turning the barrel adjuster. It would work for a while,
but if I tightened it too much I lost the ability to trim
to the inside.

This problem was really bothering me and I was going to
start over. I turned the barrel adjuster all the way back in
and rechecked the top adjustment. What I finally discovered
was that I had adjusted the outer stop, so that when I was
in the large ring and smallest cog, I set it to have a
clearance of about 1mm, as Shimano recommended. Well
thinking about it, when I trimmed it in one click, I had
rubbing on the outer cage and it stood to reason that the
next click was taking it too far in. So, often it would drop
just past catching the middle ring.

I readjusted it so that the outer stop was further out. It
then shifted better in all ways, with less cable tension. It
now trims in all directions, smoothly, and most importantly,
during my last five rides and now 100 miles, it has never
missed the middle ring.

I can't remember exactly how it worked, but I do know that
my Tiagra brifters also trimmed in both directions, but with
less options. I think the DA triple might offer the most
trim positions.

I think you need to find out exactly how your Ultegra[?] or
105[?] shifter is designed to work and then start over. It
seems the less tension on the cable the better. No tighter
than necessary. I think that you are going to be pleasantly
surprised.

Life is Good! Jeff

On 21 May 2004 08:23:41 -0700, [email hidden] (Jeff Starr)

Quoted message said:

I can't remember exactly how it worked, but I do know that
my Tiagra brifters also trimmed in both directions, but
with less options. I think the DA triple might offer the
most trim positions.

If Tiagra does it, 105 ought to too, I guess.

Quoted message said:

I think you need to find out exactly how your Ultegra[?] or
105[?] shifter is designed to work and then start over. It
seems the less tension on the cable the better. No tighter
than necessary. I think that you are going to be pleasantly
surprised.

105 shifter, ultegra derailer. I've suspected that the
cable is too tight since the day I installed the new
Ultegra derailer, as it requires a stronger push for shifts
to larger gears, and gives a pretty harsh shift into a
smaller gear.

Maybe I'll give it a shot. Everything is out of adjustment
right now, and this is a good excuse to change that rear
derailer I want to change...
--
Rick Onanian