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When to buy organic

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
10 January 2006
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20 January 2006
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Steve
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  1. Excerpts from
    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/food/organic-products-206/when-buying-organic-pays-and-doesnt.htm

    Know when it pays to buy organic products to reduce your exposure to
    pesticides and other additives, and when it’s a waste of your money.

    Buy these items organic as often as possible:

    ....apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported grapes,
    nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes, red raspberries, spinach, and
    strawberries

    Why: The US Dept of Agriculture's lab testing reveals that even after
    washing, some fruits and vegetables consistently carry much higher
    levels of pesticide residue than others. Their conventionally grown
    counterparts tend to be laden with pesticides. Among fruits,
    nectarines had the highest percentage testing positive for pesticide
    residue. Peaches and red raspberries had the most pesticides (nine) on
    a single sample. Among vegetables, celery and spinach most often
    carried pesticides, with spinach having the highest number (10) on a
    single sample.

    ....meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy

    Why: You greatly reduce the risk of exposure to mad cow disease and
    minimize exposure to other potential toxins in non-organic feed. You
    also avoid the results of production methods that use daily
    supplemental hormones and antibiotics, which have been linked to
    increased antibacterial resistance in humans.

    ....baby food

    Why: Children’s developing bodies are especially vulnerable to toxins,
    and they may be at risk of higher exposure. Baby food is often made up
    of condensed fruits or vegetables, potentially concentrating pesticide
    residues.

    Buy these items organic if price is no object:

    ....asparagus, avocados, bananas, broccoli, cauliflower, sweet corn,
    kiwi, mangos, onions, papaya, pineapples, and sweet peas

    Why: Multiple pesticide residues are rarely found on conventionally
    grown versions of these fruits and vegetables.

    ....breads, oils, potato chips, pasta, cereals, and other packaged
    foods, such as canned or dried fruit and vegetables

    Why: Although these processed products may have lower levels of
    contaminants in them, they offer limited health value because
    processing tends to wash away important nutrients. The process of
    milling organic whole grains into flour, for example, eliminates fiber
    and vitamins, though they are sometimes added back in. The more a food
    is processed, the less health value its organic version offers,
    especially in products such as cereals and pastas with labels that say
    "made with organic ingredients." Read the list of ingredients and you
    might find that while the flour is organic, the eggs aren't. The
    processed foods with the most added value are labeled "100% Organic"
    and "USDA organic."

    Don’t bother buying these items organic:

    ....seafood

    Why: Whether caught in the wild or farmed, fish can be labeled
    organic, despite the presence of contaminants such as mercury and
    PCBs. Some wild fish such as bluefish are very high in PCBs, and tuna
    and swordfish are laced with mercury. The USDA has not yet developed
    organic certification standards for seafood. In the meantime,
    producers are allowed to make their own organic claims as long as they
    don’t use "USDA" or "certified organic" logos.

    ....cosmetics

    Why: Unless a personal-care product consists primarily of organic
    agricultural ingredients, such as aloe vera gel, it's pointless to buy
    organic. Most cosmetics contain a mix of ingredients, and USDA
    regulations allow shampoos and body lotions to carry an organic label
    if their main ingredient is organic hydrosol, which is simply water in
    which something organic, such as a lavender leaf, has been soaked.
    While the USDA claims that organic-labeled cosmetics follow the same
    standards as food, we have found indiscriminate use of synthetic
    ingredients and violations of food-labeling standards. Just because a
    product has the word organic or natural in its name doesn’t
    necessarily mean it’s safer. Only 11% of ingredients found in
    personal-care products, organic or not, have ever been screened for
    safety.

    --

    My friends tell me I have an intimacy problem.
    But they don't really know me.

    ....Garry Shandling

  2. I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
    again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
    was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
    she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

  3. Steve <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Excerpts from
    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/food/organic-products-206/when-buying-organic-pays-and-doesnt.htm

    Quoted message said:

    Know when it pays to buy organic products to reduce your exposure
    to pesticides and other additives, and when it's a waste of your money.

    Its always a waste of your money, just sometimes more of a waste
    of your money than otherwise in modern first world countrys.

    Quoted message said:

    Buy these items organic as often as possible:

    Quoted message said:

    ...apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported
    grapes, nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes,
    red raspberries, spinach, and strawberries

    No thanks.

    Quoted message said:

    Why: The US Dept of Agriculture's lab testing reveals that
    even after washing, some fruits and vegetables consistently
    carry much higher levels of pesticide residue than others.

    I dont care.

    Quoted message said:

    Their conventionally grown counterparts tend to be laden with pesticides.

    Lie. The USDA never said anything like that.

    Quoted message said:

    Among fruits, nectarines had the highest percentage testing
    positive for pesticide residue. Peaches and red raspberries
    had the most pesticides (nine) on a single sample. Among
    vegetables, celery and spinach most often carried pesticides,
    with spinach having the highest number (10) on a single sample.

    I dont care.

    Quoted message said:

    ...meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy

    Quoted message said:

    Why: You greatly reduce the risk of exposure to mad cow disease
    and minimize exposure to other potential toxins in non-organic feed.

    Drivel.

    Quoted message said:

    You also avoid the results of production methods that use
    daily supplemental hormones and antibiotics, which have
    been linked to increased antibacterial resistance in humans.

    No they havent.

    Quoted message said:

    ...baby food

    Quoted message said:

    Why: Children's developing bodies are especially vulnerable to toxins,

    Pity there arent any 'toxins' in what is sold in first world countrys.

    Quoted message said:

    and they may be at risk of higher exposure. Baby food
    is often made up of condensed fruits or vegetables,
    potentially concentrating pesticide residues.

    Pig ignorant drivel. There's never enough of those to matter.

    Quoted message said:

    Buy these items organic if price is no object:

    No thanks.

    Quoted message said:

    ...asparagus, avocados, bananas, broccoli, cauliflower, sweet
    corn, kiwi, mangos, onions, papaya, pineapples, and sweet peas

    Quoted message said:

    Why: Multiple pesticide residues are rarely found on
    conventionally grown versions of these fruits and vegetables.

    So why bother with the organics at all, stupid ?

    Quoted message said:

    ...breads, oils, potato chips, pasta, cereals, and other
    packaged foods, such as canned or dried fruit and vegetables

    Quoted message said:

    Why: Although these processed products may have lower levels
    of contaminants in them, they offer limited health value because
    processing tends to wash away important nutrients.

    More pig ignorant drivel. What makes MUCH more
    sense is to buy the less processed forms of breads
    etc instead if you care about 'nutrients'

    The reality in the first world is that everyone gets plenty
    of 'nutrients' as part of their normal diet, grossly more
    than they need with most of them in fact.

    Quoted message said:

    The process of milling organic whole grains into
    flour, for example, eliminates fiber and vitamins,
    though they are sometimes added back in.

    And everyone gets enough vitamins in their diet in the first world anyway.

    Quoted message said:

    The more a food is processed, the less health value its organic
    version offers, especially in products such as cereals and
    pastas with labels that say "made with organic ingredients."

    More mindless pig ignorant drivel.

    Quoted message said:

    Read the list of ingredients and you might find
    that while the flour is organic, the eggs aren't.

    I dont care.

    Quoted message said:

    The processed foods with the most added value
    are labeled "100% Organic" and "USDA organic."

    Wrong again.

    Quoted message said:

    Don't bother buying these items organic:

    Quoted message said:

    ...seafood

    Quoted message said:

    Why: Whether caught in the wild or farmed, fish can be labeled
    organic, despite the presence of contaminants such as mercury
    and PCBs. Some wild fish such as bluefish are very high in PCBs,
    and tuna and swordfish are laced with mercury. The USDA has
    not yet developed organic certification standards for seafood. In
    the meantime, producers are allowed to make their own organic
    claims as long as they don't use "USDA" or "certified organic" logos.

    Quoted message said:

    ...cosmetics

    Not stupid enough to bother with any of those thanks.

    Quoted message said:

    Why: Unless a personal-care product consists primarily of organic
    agricultural ingredients, such as aloe vera gel, it's pointless to buy
    organic. Most cosmetics contain a mix of ingredients, and USDA
    regulations allow shampoos and body lotions to carry an organic label
    if their main ingredient is organic hydrosol, which is simply water in
    which something organic, such as a lavender leaf, has been soaked.
    While the USDA claims that organic-labeled cosmetics follow the same
    standards as food, we have found indiscriminate use of synthetic
    ingredients and violations of food-labeling standards. Just because a
    product has the word organic or natural in its name doesn't necessarily
    mean it's safer. Only 11% of ingredients found in personal-care
    products, organic or not, have ever been screened for safety.

  4. Beeblebrox said:

    I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
    again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
    was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
    she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

    You haven't lived 'til you've chomped down on a cabbage worm. BTDT.
    It wasn't quite as bitter as the bee in some canned spinach I once
    had.

  5. In article <b1%wf.70078$4l5.46313@dukeread05>,

    Beeblebrox said:

    I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
    again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
    was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
    she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

    Whatever did people _do_ before pesticides came into common usage?

    Those of us who buy organic vegetables like broccoli and cabbage
    know to soak it in a salt-water solution for a few minutes to loosen
    the unwanted visitors.

    BTW, there _are_ "pesticides" which can be used to protect
    vegetables against insect infestation, including pepper spray,
    marigold teas, etc.

    sd

  6. _.-In rec.food.cooking, Rod Speed wrote the following -._

    Quoted message said:

    And everyone gets enough vitamins in their diet in the first world anyway.

    That is a very big brush you have there. Care to paint me a picture
    that supports that claim?

    --
    .-'😉) fauxascii.com ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
    ' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
    ((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
    ((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson

  7. me said:

    Beeblebrox <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears
    she'll never again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once,
    and because there was no pesticide, the bunch was infested
    with so many little beasties, she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

    Quoted message said:

    Whatever did people _do_ before pesticides came into common usage?

    Put up with bug and weavil infested food.

    Quoted message said:

    Those of us who buy organic vegetables like broccoli
    and cabbage know to soak it in a salt-water solution
    for a few minutes to loosen the unwanted visitors.

    Quoted message said:

    BTW, there _are_ "pesticides" which can be used
    to protect vegetables against insect infestation,
    including pepper spray, marigold teas, etc.

    Pity they're so useless.

  8. me said:

    In article <b1%wf.70078$4l5.46313@dukeread05>,

    Beeblebrox said:

    I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
    again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
    was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
    she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

    Whatever did people _do_ before pesticides came into common usage?

    Those of us who buy organic vegetables like broccoli and cabbage
    know to soak it in a salt-water solution for a few minutes to loosen
    the unwanted visitors.

    BTW, there _are_ "pesticides" which can be used to protect
    vegetables against insect infestation, including pepper spray,
    marigold teas, etc.

    sd

    when I had vegetable gardens I rarely did anything for pesticides, organic or
    otherwise. My neighbors were always crazy with them and I think it drove all
    the spiders to my yard or something. I had a crazy spider population, all
    shapes and sizes and I never really had to worry about other bugs. Of course
    it made harvesting a bit of an adventure....

    --
    ..:Heather:.
    www.velvet-c.com
    Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

  9. me said:

    In article <b1%wf.70078$4l5.46313@dukeread05>,

    Beeblebrox said:

    I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
    again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
    was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
    she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

    Whatever did people _do_ before pesticides came into common usage?

    Those of us who buy organic vegetables like broccoli and cabbage
    know to soak it in a salt-water solution for a few minutes to loosen
    the unwanted visitors.

    BTW, there _are_ "pesticides" which can be used to protect
    vegetables against insect infestation, including pepper spray,
    marigold teas, etc.

    sd

    when I had vegetable gardens I rarely did anything for pesticides, organic or
    otherwise. My neighbors were always crazy with them and I think it drove all
    the spiders to my yard or something. I had a crazy spider population, all
    shapes and sizes and I never really had to worry about other bugs. Of course
    it made harvesting a bit of an adventure....

    --
    ..:Heather:.
    www.velvet-c.com
    Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

  10. at Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:35:00 GMT in <b1%wf.70078$4l5.46313@dukeread05>,
    [email hidden] (Beeblebrox) wrote :

    Quoted message said:

    I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
    again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
    was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
    she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

    Sounds like she had a one-time bad experience, but I've not encountered
    much organic broccoli these days that has had those types of issues. There
    was a time in the past when for organic people had to put up with low-
    grade, bug-infested, semi-eaten items, but this is generally not the case
    anymore. The popularity of organic farming has driven rapid progress in
    understanding and careful cultivation.

    It must be said, however, that for best results you should buy organic
    items in season. Out-of season organics are likely to be much worse than
    their out-of-season conventional brethren, generally shrivelled, tasteless,
    etc. Furthermore the price premium for out-of-season organic becomes truly
    disproportionate, as compared to in-season differences when organic items
    are often close to competitive with conventional on price. So if you are to
    go with organic, this implies also a commitment to eating seasonally, and
    probably locally as well.

    Nonetheless, the argument generally comes down to a question of whether or
    not the value of organic is worth the extra price. Some people believe that
    no amount of benefits from organics could justify the cost. Others say that
    no reduction in cost could justify the negatives of conventional farming.
    Certainly one can't expect organic to come for free. If there is any extra
    value in it, then that value will come at a commensurate price. Much of the
    organic movement argues that conventional foods are actually coming at an
    artificially low price - that in using unsustainable methods they are
    selling products in the short term cheaply, but that sooner or later the
    chickens will come home to roost, so to speak, and then prices will rise
    anyway. In this argument the price of organic merely reflects real costs of
    sustainable production. As it actually happens, there is some inflation
    going on as well, because the organic core consumers are prepared to pay
    above market value for what they're getting. In some cases this means
    egregious overpricing, but in other cases it doesn't, so organic items
    aren't automatically a rip-off - it depends entirely on how much value you
    see in them. The arguments of the organic camp, therefore, aren't
    unassailable, but neither are they irrational. Same thing for the
    conventional camp. It's a pure matter of priorities: price versus benefits?

    --
    Alex Rast
    [email hidden]
    (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

  11. "Alex Rast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    In some cases this means

    Quoted message said:

    egregious overpricing, but in other cases it doesn't, so organic items
    aren't automatically a rip-off - it depends entirely on how much value you
    see in them.

    Quoted message said:

    Alex Rast

    And it depends a lot on how 'many' people see value in organic produce,
    because many times in a market that I shop that is most convenient, the
    small amount of organic produce that is available will just sit and rot. I
    find that the price for the organic food at this particular store is not out
    of line in comparison to their conventional items, which IMO is very high in
    price. However, organic is becoming more prevalent, and to be fair, their
    conventional produce sometimes ranks pretty close to 'throw away' also.

    The other day there was no Italian parsley available; usually there is a
    choice between organic and conventional. The produce person went to the
    back of the store and brought out a box that was maybe 1/4 full and said
    'this is all we have.' I took out a bunch, and he returned the 1/4 box of
    parsley to the produce room from whence he came. He had no clue as to the
    price, nor did I press him for a price.

    I also saw some loose leaf greens that they had on sale for 2 bunches for a
    dollar. Geez, I guess it is supposed to be for pet rabbits, it was pretty
    darned old.

    I'll buy organic, but I'll not generally pay Whole Foods prices across the
    board for it; specials, yes, if the produce looks good.
    Dee Dee

  12. Alex Rast <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Beeblebrox) wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll
    never again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and
    because there was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many
    little beasties, she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

    Sounds like she had a one-time bad experience, but I've not
    encountered much organic broccoli these days that has had those types
    of issues. There was a time in the past when for organic people had
    to put up with low- grade, bug-infested, semi-eaten items, but this
    is generally not the case anymore. The popularity of organic farming
    has driven rapid progress in understanding and careful cultivation.

    It must be said, however, that for best results you should buy organic
    items in season. Out-of season organics are likely to be much worse
    than their out-of-season conventional brethren, generally shrivelled,
    tasteless, etc. Furthermore the price premium for out-of-season
    organic becomes truly disproportionate, as compared to in-season
    differences when organic items are often close to competitive with
    conventional on price. So if you are to go with organic, this implies
    also a commitment to eating seasonally, and probably locally as well.

    Nonetheless, the argument generally comes down to a question of
    whether or not the value of organic is worth the extra price. Some
    people believe that no amount of benefits from organics could justify
    the cost. Others say that no reduction in cost could justify the
    negatives of conventional farming. Certainly one can't expect organic
    to come for free. If there is any extra value in it, then that value
    will come at a commensurate price. Much of the organic movement
    argues that conventional foods are actually coming at an artificially
    low price - that in using unsustainable methods they are selling
    products in the short term cheaply, but that sooner or later the chickens
    will come home to roost, so to speak, and then prices will rise anyway.

    Mindless silly stuff. Wont happen, you watch.

    Quoted message said:

    In this argument the price of organic merely
    reflects real costs of sustainable production.

    More mindless silly stuff.

    Quoted message said:

    As it actually happens, there is some inflation going on as
    well, because the organic core consumers are prepared to
    pay above market value for what they're getting. In some
    cases this means egregious overpricing, but in other cases
    it doesn't, so organic items aren't automatically a rip-off -
    it depends entirely on how much value you see in them. The
    arguments of the organic camp, therefore, aren't unassailable,
    but neither are they irrational.

    Yes they are, most obviously with that
    terminally silly claim about prices rising.

    Quoted message said:

    Same thing for the conventional camp. It's a
    pure matter of priorities: price versus benefits?

    No evidence of any 'benefits' with 'organics, they're a complete [censored].

  13. Alex Rast <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Beeblebrox) wrote

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll
    never again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and
    because there was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many
    little beasties, she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

    Sounds like she had a one-time bad experience, but I've not
    encountered much organic broccoli these days that has had those types
    of issues. There was a time in the past when for organic people had
    to put up with low- grade, bug-infested, semi-eaten items, but this
    is generally not the case anymore. The popularity of organic farming
    has driven rapid progress in understanding and careful cultivation.

    It must be said, however, that for best results you should buy organic
    items in season. Out-of season organics are likely to be much worse
    than their out-of-season conventional brethren, generally shrivelled,
    tasteless, etc. Furthermore the price premium for out-of-season
    organic becomes truly disproportionate, as compared to in-season
    differences when organic items are often close to competitive with
    conventional on price. So if you are to go with organic, this implies
    also a commitment to eating seasonally, and probably locally as well.

    Nonetheless, the argument generally comes down to a question of
    whether or not the value of organic is worth the extra price. Some
    people believe that no amount of benefits from organics could justify
    the cost. Others say that no reduction in cost could justify the
    negatives of conventional farming. Certainly one can't expect organic
    to come for free. If there is any extra value in it, then that value
    will come at a commensurate price. Much of the organic movement
    argues that conventional foods are actually coming at an artificially
    low price - that in using unsustainable methods they are selling
    products in the short term cheaply, but that sooner or later the chickens
    will come home to roost, so to speak, and then prices will rise anyway.

    Mindless silly stuff. Wont happen, you watch.

    Quoted message said:

    In this argument the price of organic merely
    reflects real costs of sustainable production.

    More mindless silly stuff.

    Quoted message said:

    As it actually happens, there is some inflation going on as
    well, because the organic core consumers are prepared to
    pay above market value for what they're getting. In some
    cases this means egregious overpricing, but in other cases
    it doesn't, so organic items aren't automatically a rip-off -
    it depends entirely on how much value you see in them. The
    arguments of the organic camp, therefore, aren't unassailable,
    but neither are they irrational.

    Yes they are, most obviously with that
    terminally silly claim about prices rising.

    Quoted message said:

    Same thing for the conventional camp. It's a
    pure matter of priorities: price versus benefits?

    No evidence of any 'benefits' with 'organics, they're a complete [censored].

  14. Steve said:

    Excerpts from
    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/food/organic-products-206/when-buying-organic-pays-and-doesnt.htm

    Buy these items organic as often as possible:

    ...apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported grapes,
    nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes, red raspberries, spinach, and
    strawberries

    I once took a bite from an organic apple.....about to take a 2nd
    bite...noticed a worm...then noticed it was only *half* a worm....

    More & more they're using systemic pesticides (absorbed thru
    roots/leaves), there's no "washing" off.

    Pesticide triva: Calif. strawberries are No.1. (Yay)
    No.1 in pounds per acre of pesticides, iirc over 300, I think it is.
    My fav, broccoli was only at 50, or so.

    french fry trivia: McDonalds potatoes (for fries), already saturated
    with pesticides, are given an xtra dose just b-4 harvest to prevent the
    black spotting. (no wonder they're so costly)

    Quoted message said:

    Buy these items organic if price is no object:

    ...asparagus, avocados, bananas, broccoli, cauliflower, sweet corn,
    kiwi, mangos, onions, papaya, pineapples, and sweet peas

    Why: Multiple pesticide residues are rarely found on conventionally
    grown versions of these fruits and vegetables.

    Oh really??? How about if they're imported from Mexico/Central America.
    We get lots of their veggies/fruits in the Wintertime. They're only
    tested for a few pesticides. If they do find a contaminated
    batch....well, tough apples...they'll already have been eaten.

    Quoted message said:

    ...seafood

    Some wild fish such as bluefish are very high in PCBs,
    and tuna and swordfish are laced with mercury.

    Strange, they overlook the fact that farm-raised fish, esp- salmon are
    very high in PCB's.

  15. Rod Speed said:

    Steve <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Excerpts from
    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/food/organic-products-206/when-buying-organic-pays-and-doesnt.htm

    Quoted message said:

    Know when it pays to buy organic products to reduce your exposure
    to pesticides and other additives, and when it's a waste of your money.

    Its always a waste of your money, just sometimes more of a waste
    of your money than otherwise in modern first world countrys.

    Quoted message said:

    Buy these items organic as often as possible:

    Quoted message said:

    ...apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported
    grapes, nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes,
    red raspberries, spinach, and strawberries

    No thanks.

    Quoted message said:

    Why: The US Dept of Agriculture's lab testing reveals that
    even after washing, some fruits and vegetables consistently
    carry much higher levels of pesticide residue than others.

    I dont care.

    You say you don't care several times but you obviously care enough to
    post a long response that is full of inaccuracies and pure BS. It takes
    a real talent to get so many things wrong all at once, but you managed
    to do it.

    Peter

  16. Beeblebrox said:

    I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
    again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there
    was no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties,
    she couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

    Yaknow, I understand the squick factor, but when you step back and look
    at it in the Grand Scheme o' Things, the bugs are probably a lot
    healthier to eat than the pesticides.

  17. P.Aitken said:

    You say you don't care several times but you obviously care enough to
    post a long response that is full of inaccuracies and pure BS. It takes
    a real talent to get so many things wrong all at once, but you managed
    to do it.

    It's always fascinating when, through the miracle of cross-posted
    threads, the rest of the world is introduced to the Wonder Which Is Rod
    Speed.

  18. Steve said:

    Excerpts from
    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/food/organic-products-206/when-buying-organic-pays-and-doesnt.htm

    Know when it pays to buy organic products to reduce your exposure to
    pesticides and other additives, and when it's a waste of your money.

    Buy these items organic as often as possible:

    ...apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported grapes,
    nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes, red raspberries, spinach, and
    strawberries

    Why: The US Dept of Agriculture's lab testing reveals that even after
    washing, some fruits and vegetables consistently carry much higher
    levels of pesticide residue than others. Their conventionally grown
    counterparts tend to be laden with pesticides. Among fruits,
    nectarines had the highest percentage testing positive for pesticide
    residue. Peaches and red raspberries had the most pesticides (nine) on
    a single sample. Among vegetables, celery and spinach most often
    carried pesticides, with spinach having the highest number (10) on a
    single sample.

    ...meat, poultry, eggs, and dairy

    Why: You greatly reduce the risk of exposure to mad cow disease and
    minimize exposure to other potential toxins in non-organic feed. You
    also avoid the results of production methods that use daily
    supplemental hormones and antibiotics, which have been linked to
    increased antibacterial resistance in humans.

    ...baby food

    Why: Children's developing bodies are especially vulnerable to toxins,
    and they may be at risk of higher exposure. Baby food is often made up
    of condensed fruits or vegetables, potentially concentrating pesticide
    residues.

    Buy these items organic if price is no object:

    ...asparagus, avocados, bananas, broccoli, cauliflower, sweet corn,
    kiwi, mangos, onions, papaya, pineapples, and sweet peas

    Why: Multiple pesticide residues are rarely found on conventionally
    grown versions of these fruits and vegetables.

    ...breads, oils, potato chips, pasta, cereals, and other packaged
    foods, such as canned or dried fruit and vegetables

    Why: Although these processed products may have lower levels of
    contaminants in them, they offer limited health value because
    processing tends to wash away important nutrients. The process of
    milling organic whole grains into flour, for example, eliminates fiber
    and vitamins, though they are sometimes added back in. The more a food
    is processed, the less health value its organic version offers,
    especially in products such as cereals and pastas with labels that say
    "made with organic ingredients." Read the list of ingredients and you
    might find that while the flour is organic, the eggs aren't. The
    processed foods with the most added value are labeled "100% Organic"
    and "USDA organic."

    Don't bother buying these items organic:

    ...seafood

    Why: Whether caught in the wild or farmed, fish can be labeled
    organic, despite the presence of contaminants such as mercury and
    PCBs. Some wild fish such as bluefish are very high in PCBs, and tuna
    and swordfish are laced with mercury. The USDA has not yet developed
    organic certification standards for seafood. In the meantime,
    producers are allowed to make their own organic claims as long as they
    don't use "USDA" or "certified organic" logos.

    ...cosmetics

    Why: Unless a personal-care product consists primarily of organic
    agricultural ingredients, such as aloe vera gel, it's pointless to buy
    organic. Most cosmetics contain a mix of ingredients, and USDA
    regulations allow shampoos and body lotions to carry an organic label
    if their main ingredient is organic hydrosol, which is simply water in
    which something organic, such as a lavender leaf, has been soaked.
    While the USDA claims that organic-labeled cosmetics follow the same
    standards as food, we have found indiscriminate use of synthetic
    ingredients and violations of food-labeling standards. Just because a
    product has the word organic or natural in its name doesn't
    necessarily mean it's safer. Only 11% of ingredients found in
    personal-care products, organic or not, have ever been screened for
    safety.


    I'm always astounded by the negative reaction to concepts that are
    simply "different". Why do some people feel/react/seem so threatened
    by the notion of not using pesticides??? It's as if they take it
    personally :-) Why does anyone give a rat's ass if I choose to eat a
    diet that doesn't include meat, fish or pesticides? And why is there
    often such a knee-jerk, defensive reaction? I have scratched my head
    on this one for about 3 decades and although I've learned to talk less
    and less about how and what I eat, I still see the reaction is alive
    and well in forums such as this.

    Yeah, I get grossed out when I find a bunch of bugs in a clump of
    broccoli, but to think that it's only on organic broccoli, is a bit
    silly. For those that have the atttitude that "what you see won't hurt
    you," well, go on with your way of thinking. If it works for you, go
    for it. But why oh why do you have to put others down who choose not
    to eat foods laden with the stuff? For those of you who choose to eat
    animal non organic animal products...help yourself to all you want.
    But for god's sake...why do you give a rip if others do not want to?
    This is one of those concepts that I will never understand.

  19. "DrLith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Beeblebrox said:

    I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who swears she'll never
    again buy organic broccoli. Says she tried it once, and because there was
    no pesticide, the bunch was infested with so many little beasties, she
    couldn't get it clean enough to cook.

    Yaknow, I understand the squick factor, but when you step back and look at
    it in the Grand Scheme o' Things, the bugs are probably a lot healthier to
    eat than the pesticides.

    There is no real reason to an have either/or factor. True organic gardening
    will eliminate both; not always obtainable, tho.
    Dee Dee

  20. DrLith said:
    P.Aitken said:

    You say you don't care several times but you obviously care enough to
    post a long response that is full of inaccuracies and pure BS. It
    takes a real talent to get so many things wrong all at once, but you
    managed to do it.

    It's always fascinating when, through the miracle of cross-posted
    threads, the rest of the world is introduced to the Wonder Which Is Rod
    Speed.

    So Rod has a history, does he? Why am I not surprised?

    Peter

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