When Science has not the answer ??

Quoted message said:

When you accept that an 'incurable' disease exists, then you deny God.

Quite the contrary. Perhaps I merely submit to His will and deny my
own.

Marvin

Marvin L. Zinn
Reply to: [email hidden]
Using Virtual Access
Windows 2000 build 2600

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

(snip)

Quoted message said:

For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,

Pretty well treatable???
A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad
germ method) on treating a cancer.

Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical
science capable of?

That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a
comprehensive in treating cancer.

but science

Quoted message said:

is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective evidence
that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do, alpha=0.05, more
than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for variation.

We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to
patient that, by doing this or avoiding that, your cancer won't come
back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a full life as
per normal, able to have sex as compared to those who go thru medical
science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

Danny Yang

An Asian Holistic Physician cum Herbalist

Quoted message said:

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense,
expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

(R. Waters)

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(snip)

Quoted message said:

For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,

Pretty well treatable???
A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad
germ method) on treating a cancer.

Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with anti-biotics.

Quoted message said:

Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical
science capable of?

Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What about
Artemissia annua? Oh, and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear of
curare? What do you think the source for vinblastin or vincrystin is?
How'bout paclitaxel? Please, learn about pharmaceutical science before
commenting on it.

Quoted message said:

That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a
comprehensive in treating cancer.

No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive" [cure]
in treating cancer is because not all cancers are created equal, the
cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the behaviour of the cells in
the cancer, also when metastised and the possibilities of using e.g.
cytostatics is in part dictated by that behaviour. Cancer is, sadly, an
immensly complex process.

Quoted message said:

but science

Quoted message said:

is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective

evidence

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do, alpha=0.05,

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for

variation.

Quoted message said:

We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to
patient that, by doing this or avoiding that, your cancer won't come
back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a full life as
per normal, able to have sex as compared to those who go thru medical
science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and
publish it in a major journal.

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense,
expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

(R. Waters)

Marvin L. Zinn said:

Quoted message said:

When you accept that an 'incurable' disease exists, then you deny God.

Quite the contrary. Perhaps I merely submit to His will and deny my
own.

Marvin

"Perhaps" is always a possibility.
Perhaps the headache is providing a lesson to change a diet, so don't
take the aspirin.
Perhaps it's time to turn right instead of left when driving to the
store to avoid an unknown accident.

When you know God's Will for your next actions, then you can remove
the personal requirement to be a 'good steward' of what you have and
do what you know in faith that could even be contrary to what you
desire.

Mike

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: When Science has not the answer ??
From: Marvin L. Zinn [email hidden]
Date: 11/13/2003 12:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

When you accept that an 'incurable' disease exists, then you deny God.

Quite the contrary. Perhaps I merely submit to His will and deny my
own.

Marvin

Amen!!

Jan

Quoted message said:

Marvin L. Zinn
Reply to: [email hidden]
Using Virtual Access
Windows 2000 build 2600

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: When Science has not the answer ??
From: [email hidden]
Date: 11/13/2003 6:25 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Marvin L. Zinn said:

Quoted message said:

When you accept that an 'incurable' disease exists, then you deny God.

Quite the contrary. Perhaps I merely submit to His will and deny my
own.

Marvin

"Perhaps" is always a possibility.
Perhaps the headache is providing a lesson to change a diet, so don't
take the aspirin.
Perhaps it's time to turn right instead of left when driving to the
store to avoid an unknown accident.

When you know God's Will for your next actions, then you can remove
the personal requirement to be a 'good steward' of what you have and
do what you know in faith that could even be contrary to what you
desire.

Mike

Thanks, Mike and Marvin, wonderful to see these kind of posts.

Jan

Mike,

Quoted message said:

When you know God's Will for your next actions, then you can remove
the personal requirement to be a 'good steward' of what you have and
do what you know in faith that could even be contrary to what you
desire.

Precisely my goal, to the maximum extent possible.

Marvin

Marvin L. Zinn
Reply to: [email hidden]
Using Virtual Access
Windows 2000 build 2600

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(snip)

Quoted message said:

For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,

Pretty well treatable???
A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad
germ method) on treating a cancer.

Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with anti-biotics.

Who doesn't know that applying powerful antibiotics side-by-side with
radiation or chemotherapy, are just part of the treatment regiment in
a cancer treatment program!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical
science capable of?

Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What about
Artemissia annua? Oh, and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear of
curare? What do you think the source for vinblastin or vincrystin is?
How'bout paclitaxel? Please, learn about pharmaceutical science before
commenting on it.

Of course, there are some herbal drugs that add into the cancer
treatment program, but, that doean't play an immediate/urgent role at
that time, in suppressing damages caused by the sickness. It is after
those direct treatments of 'burning' (thru radiation or chemo), 'cut
and paste' method of surgery or thru 'good germ kills bad germs' of
applying antibiotics and when the cancer is in control, then, herbal
drugs are then used to revigorate that particular cancerous organ and
helping in its functioning.
In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when
thing are in control. Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation
treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are considered as very
straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the
cancer sickness on-hold.
What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber
that, natural herbs can easily substitute those herbal drugs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a
comprehensive in treating cancer.

No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive" [cure]
in treating cancer is because not all cancers are created equal,

The cause of a cancer in-making come from the same logic ie, the
weakness of your immune system, eventhough, it occur in various part
of your body's organ.

Quoted message said:

cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the behaviour of the cells in
the cancer, also when metastised and the possibilities of using e.g.
cytostatics is in part dictated by that behaviour. Cancer is, sadly, an
immensly complex process.

To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its
about the strength of your immune system that dictate whether it can
happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but science

Quoted message said:

is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective

evidence

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do, alpha=0.05,

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for

variation.

Quoted message said:

We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to
patient that, by doing this or avoiding that, your cancer won't come
back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a full life as
per normal, able to have sex as compared to those who go thru medical
science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and
publish it in a major journal.

Simple as that, once you are able to 'understand' the making of a
simple sore-throat problem, then, you are on the right track in
understanding on how a cancer comeabout.
This sort of idealogy appply to almost everything in life. To solve a
problem, one must understand the root of the problem first, then you
are able to rectify its fault.

You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured
patient that they(MS) cannot promise that the cancer won't come back
to haunt once more.

Quoted message said:

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense,
expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

(R. Waters)

On 13 Nov 2003 23:42:28 -0800, [email hidden] (yansimon52)

Quoted message said:

To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its
about the strength of your immune system that dictate whether it can
happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..

Perception creates its own reality.

Aloha,

Rich
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance.

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(snip)
> For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,

Pretty well treatable???
A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad
germ method) on treating a cancer.

Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with

anti-biotics.

Quoted message said:

Who doesn't know that applying powerful antibiotics side-by-side with
radiation or chemotherapy, are just part of the treatment regiment in
a cancer treatment program!

Your sentence above strongly indicated that you meant that cancer was
treated using the "good germ/bad germ" principle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical
science capable of?

Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Artemissia annua? Oh, and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

curare? What do you think the source for vinblastin or vincrystin is?
How'bout paclitaxel? Please, learn about pharmaceutical science before
commenting on it.

Of course, there are some herbal drugs that add into the cancer
treatment program,

Only a few of the ones I mentioned are anti-cancer agents.

Quoted message said:

but, that doean't play an immediate/urgent role at
that time, in suppressing damages caused by the sickness. It is after
those direct treatments of 'burning' (thru radiation or chemo), 'cut
and paste' method of surgery or thru 'good germ kills bad germs' of
applying antibiotics and when the cancer is in control, then, herbal
drugs are then used to revigorate that particular cancerous organ and
helping in its functioning.

I don't really understand what you wrote there, but it leaves the impression
on me that you think that the herbal anti-cancer agents I mentioned are not
in wide spread use as a primary cancer treatment. Is that correct? If so,
you don't know your herbs.

Quoted message said:

In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when
thing are in control.

How utterly wrong. You don't know much about those herbs and plants I
mentioned, do you?

Quoted message said:

Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation
treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are considered as very
straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the
cancer sickness on-hold.
What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber
that, natural herbs can easily substitute those herbal drugs.

NEWSFLASH: All of the herbs I mentioned are natural, they are not
synthesized in a laboratory. The stuff that is uded in the clinic is, in
many cases, the exact same compound as the natural stuff. It is the natural
stuff, produced by the same plants. All that is done, is that the
formulation is standardized. That means that it is known what is used in
what quantity. It is obvious that you don't know much about cancer or herbs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a
comprehensive in treating cancer.

No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive"

[cure]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in treating cancer is because not all cancers are created equal,

The cause of a cancer in-making come from the same logic ie, the
weakness of your immune system, eventhough, it occur in various part
of your body's organ.

BS. The problem is not "weakness of the immunesystem". In fact, some cancer
patients must be administered immunosuppressants so that they can receive
appropriate treatment, like in the case of bonemarrow transplant.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the behaviour of the

cells in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the cancer, also when metastised and the possibilities of using e.g.
cytostatics is in part dictated by that behaviour. Cancer is, sadly, an
immensly complex process.

To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its
about the strength of your immune system that dictate whether it can
happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..

And medicine is critized for "arrogance"?! It is incredible that you might
be serious. Please, learn some basic biochem and learn to understand what is
known about carcinogenesis. Really, it is an interesting topic.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but science
> is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective

evidence

Quoted message said:

> that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do,

alpha=0.05,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

more

Quoted message said:

> than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for

variation.

Quoted message said:

We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to
patient that, by doing this or avoiding that, your cancer won't come
back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a full life as
per normal, able to have sex as compared to those who go thru medical
science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and
publish it in a major journal.

Simple as that, once you are able to 'understand' the making of a
simple sore-throat problem, then, you are on the right track in
understanding on how a cancer comeabout.

Blah die Blah. once again, show it and publish it in a good paper in an
international journal. If you can put your money where your mouth is, it
should be easy enough to show this principle in a large patient base. I
won't be holding my breath, though.

Quoted message said:

This sort of idealogy appply to almost everything in life. To solve a
problem, one must understand the root of the problem first, then you
are able to rectify its fault.

Exactly. So, please, learn about the causes of cancer, the process of
apotosis, the process of ras oncogenes going out of control. An introductory
course on biochem will preovide you with enough background in DNA and
immunology to understand introductory texts in oncology.

Quoted message said:

You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured
patient that they(MS) cannot promise that the cancer won't come back
to haunt once more.

Alas, that is true. But, of course you can substantiate your claims and I'll
be looking in the literature. I'd say a project like this should provide
good data within 24 months, so the first paper could be out in 36. I'll be
waiting, and I'm sure so will others.

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense,
expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

(R. Waters)

Quoted message said:

From: "Bronsing" [email hidden]
Date: 11/14/2003 1:06 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

publish it in a major journal.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Blah die Blah. once again, show it and publish it in a good paper in an
international journal. If you can put your money where your mouth is, it
should be easy enough to show this principle in a large patient base. I
won't be holding my breath, though.

This is absurd.

Ummm. Time to review the charter.

Scientific proof or verificability of facts will *not* be required in
"misc.health.alternative", although posters should keep their
credibility in mind. Even though verificability will not be required,
posters are urged to post only what they believe to be true, and to
post or be prepared to post citations, references, sources, etc.

I propose creation of an unmoderated newsgroup called
"misc.health.alternative", a newsgroup for the discussion of health,
health care, and therapies which are alternative, complementary, or not
commonly accepted by Western scientific medicine.

A main hierarchy was chosen for best propagation; "misc" is the best
main hierarchy for a general group about health. Note that "health"
fits in well with the other "misc" groups: "consumers", "education",
"fitness", "jobs", "kids", "legal", "taxes", etc.

DISCUSSION:

Alternative approaches to health care are clearly of interest to many
readers, but there is currently no group in which general non-technical
discussions would be appropriate. Discussions do occur in "sci.med",
but are generally counter to that newsgroup's purpose, as readers there
have noted. "sci.skeptic" is an appropriate newsgroup for scientific
investigation of alternative therapies, but not for general discussion.

Jan

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Danny Yang made the bald statement that "applying powerful antibiotics" is a medical treatment for cancer. Robert Bronsing pointed out to him that that is incorrect. Danny responded with the rather arrogant,

"Who doesn't know that applying powerful antibiotics side-by-side with
radiation or chemotherapy, are just part of the treatment regiment in
a cancer treatment program!"

Since their disagreement is one of fact, it is reasonable, and within the guidelines of the charter, for Robert to demand more documentation than just a restatement of the claim. Perhaps YOU, Jan, can provide evidence that antibiotics are routinely used in the treatment of cancer. Unless you can add something to the conversation, you are just being troublesome.

--Rich

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> "Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>
> (snip)
> > For some cancers, yes. Some cancers are pretty well treatable,
>
> Pretty well treatable???
> A 10 yrs old child can also,apply this sort of logic (thru burning,
> 'cut and paste' and applying powerful antibiotics, good germ kills bad
> germ method) on treating a cancer.

Huh?! HAHAHA!!! Sorry, but cancer is not usually treated with

anti-biotics.

Quoted message said:

Who doesn't know that applying powerful antibiotics side-by-side with
radiation or chemotherapy, are just part of the treatment regiment in
a cancer treatment program!

Your sentence above strongly indicated that you meant that cancer was
treated using the "good germ/bad germ" principle.

The good germ killing bad germ treatment concept is part of medical
science (or others ie. TCM treatment method on infectious sickness)
treat5ment regiment on cancer treatment. Of course, beside this good
germ/bad germ tackled by powerful antibiotics, there are other method
such as, 'burning method' thru chemotherapy or radiation and lastly,
when thing got out of hand, usually, in the very late stage, immediate
surgery (thru the 'cut and paste'😉 need apply.
Who do not know about this sort very direct treatment method by
medical science.It is easy to understand it, by basing on simple logic
lah!!
The question here is, with all these excutioning of treatment method
by medical science, does medical science REALLY understood the root of
the problem that caused cancer.

I doubt so. cause, if they )MS) are so sure, they would had by now,
got a cure to treat any sort of cancer problem. They are still
searching for a comprehensive cure for cancer.

Just for your info, in holistic healing, we emphasis alot on the state
of the purity blood system, cause, to stay in good health, one must
guard jeaously the purity of your blood system to a degree where even,
the taste of of your blood is tasteless, where in normal case, it is
usually saltish.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> Beside, applying powerful antibiotics what 'herbal technic' is medical
> science capable of?

Very many. Ever heard of Digitalis purpurea? Or Secale cornutum? What

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Artemissia annua? Oh, and this is a nice one : strychnos nuts. Ever hear

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

curare? What do you think the source for vinblastin or vincrystin is?
How'bout paclitaxel? Please, learn about pharmaceutical science before
commenting on it.

Of course, there are some herbal drugs that add into the cancer
treatment program,

Only a few of the ones I mentioned are anti-cancer agents.

Quoted message said:

but, that doean't play an immediate/urgent role at
that time, in suppressing damages caused by the sickness. It is after
those direct treatments of 'burning' (thru radiation or chemo), 'cut
and paste' method of surgery or thru 'good germ kills bad germs' of
applying antibiotics and when the cancer is in control, then, herbal
drugs are then used to revigorate that particular cancerous organ and
helping in its functioning.

I don't really understand what you wrote there, but it leaves the impression
on me that you think that the herbal anti-cancer agents I mentioned are not
in wide spread use as a primary cancer treatment. Is that correct? If so,
you don't know your herbs.

Treating cancer by medical science is a systemic process. Firstly,
thru burning(chemo or radiation) and applying powerful antibiotics are
the first treatment regiment to suppress the exodus of cancerous
T-cells. When thing settle down, then, you are talking about having
those herbal drug (with their respective minierals) to help the proper
functioning of that particular inffected organ. You see, it is a well
known fact, that different organ functioning depend on different
minerals to get started. So the respective minerals/herbal drug (from
different herbal plant) were used to help the proper functioning of
that infected cancerous organ at the recuperating period.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

In other word, these herbal drugs are used at the later stage when
thing are in control.

How utterly wrong. You don't know much about those herbs and plants I
mentioned, do you?

I am the Authority on herbal plant such as, my recent discovery in
separating these herbal plants into 2 categories, either as 'orthodox'
or 'unorthodox' category.
Since, cancer is an 'orthodox sickness' it should be treated with
'orthodox herbs', herbs that depend alot of sunlight for their growth.

I hope you what I am saying.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Say what you like, applying chemo/radiation
treatment and taking powwerful antibiotics are considered as very
straight forward approach a very direct treatment in putting the
cancer sickness on-hold.
What is the big deal on those herbal drugs mentioned by you. Remenber
that, natural herbs can easily substitute those herbal drugs.

NEWSFLASH: All of the herbs I mentioned are natural, they are not
synthesized in a laboratory. The stuff that is uded in the clinic is, in
many cases, the exact same compound as the natural stuff. It is the natural
stuff, produced by the same plants. All that is done, is that the
formulation is standardized. That means that it is known what is used in
what quantity. It is obvious that you don't know much about cancer or herbs.

What do you really know about herbs? Yes, you are just talking about
those herbal plants active principle, that's all.
You don't even know or aware of that, almost all temperate herbs come
with alot of rich minerals as compared to tropical herbal plants that
come with alot of 'rich enzymes'. Why is it so?

You don't even know that, one must not die die use antibiotic, just to
'flush away' germs 'swimming' within your blood system, of course,
there are other alternatives to antibiotic, to do the same job.
This ignorant attitude by medical science in abusing the use on
antibiotic has up-to-date, contributed to the recent 'antibiotic
resistant' cases, across the globe.
Do you agree with that?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> That is why, to this day, medical science is still searching for a
> comprehensive in treating cancer.

No, the reason why science is still searching for a "comprehensive"

[cure]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in treating cancer is because not all cancers are created equal,

The cause of a cancer in-making come from the same logic ie, the
weakness of your immune system, eventhough, it occur in various part
of your body's organ.

BS. The problem is not "weakness of the immunesystem". In fact, some cancer
patients must be administered immunosuppressants so that they can receive
appropriate treatment, like in the case of bonemarrow transplant.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cellular origin of the primary cancer dictates the behaviour of the

cells in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the cancer, also when metastised and the possibilities of using e.g.
cytostatics is in part dictated by that behaviour. Cancer is, sadly, an
immensly complex process.

To you, cancer is an immensely complex process sickness. To us, its
about the strength of your immune system that dictate whether it can
happen(the in-making of a cancer) or not..

And medicine is critized for "arrogance"?! It is incredible that you might
be serious. Please, learn some basic biochem and learn to understand what is
known about carcinogenesis. Really, it is an interesting topic.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> but science
> > is always looking for better ways. But, please show me objective

evidence

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > that you can cure cancer. 1,000 patients per group will do,

alpha=0.05,
more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > than 15% improvement above the placebo group and corrected for

variation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> We, not only able to cure cancer, we are able to give assurance to
> patient that, by doing this or avoiding that, your cancer won't come
> back to haunt you again. Not only that, you can live a full life as
> per normal, able to have sex as compared to those who go thru medical
> science treatment, were mostly encountering impotancy.

Show it. Put your money where your mouth is and show the research and
publish it in a major journal.

Simple as that, once you are able to 'understand' the making of a
simple sore-throat problem, then, you are on the right track in
understanding on how a cancer comeabout.

Blah die Blah. once again, show it and publish it in a good paper in an
international journal. If you can put your money where your mouth is, it
should be easy enough to show this principle in a large patient base. I
won't be holding my breath, though.

Ironically, holistic healing is about looking at the cause of the
sickness on the whole. WE search for the 'end-product' just like a
mechanic looking on the health of the engine is by looking at those
'burnt carbon's tar' in a spark plug. Whether there are 'oil' sign of
leakage from broken piston's ring, whitish tar, sign of too much
petrol proportion, something to do with proper functioning of the
carburettor and so on.

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Quoted message said:

This sort of idealogy appply to almost everything in life. To solve a
problem, one must understand the root of the problem first, then you
are able to rectify its fault.

Exactly. So, please, learn about the causes of cancer, the process of
apotosis, the process of ras oncogenes going out of control. An introductory
course on biochem will preovide you with enough background in DNA and
immunology to understand introductory texts in oncology.

As alternative healer, we don't work with moodern technology's
eletronic equipments. To see the state on one's health, we look for
clues ie. its end product such as, urine, appetite and excretas.
As I would like to say, alternative healer don't make money, they were
not so recognised offically, cause, they don't come with facts.

In some cases where, treating some airborne viruses, what we need to
do is, to identify the group's leader (head of those clusters of
airborne viruses) and kill it by applying the element of fire. How to
put this sort of tretment in paper.

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You see, medical science have openly telling those so-called cured
patient that they(MS) cannot promise that the cancer won't come back
to haunt once more.

Alas, that is true. But, of course you can substantiate your claims and I'll
be looking in the literature. I'd say a project like this should provide
good data within 24 months, so the first paper could be out in 36. I'll be
waiting, and I'm sure so will others.

Treating orthodox sicknesses ie. cancer is easily treatable as
compared in treating modern days mostly virus derived sickness ie.
hepatitis or aids.Treating 'unorthodox sickness' is more challenging.
Why I say that?

You see, to treat a cough problem, there are hundred of herbal plants
that can treat coughing problem. In other word, you see one, you see
all, what is so interesting about it.
In the case in treating 'unorthodox sicknesses', there are only a
handful of unorthodox herbal plants that can do the job. Not only
that, its preparation is also, very unusual, different from the
preparation on temperate herbs where, they normally dried it, under
the Sun.

If, you are in the stage of writing a medical journal, and if, you
think that, my kind of work can contribute to your work, I'll be glad
to assist you on that.

Have a nice day, nice talking to you.

Quoted message said:

--

Robert Bronsing

Can't you see?
It all makes perfect sense,
expressed in dollars and cents, pounds, shillings and pence

(R. Waters)

[email hidden] wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Marvin,
That answer is determined by the self-worth you have chosen for your
life and the goal for which you are here.

Not everything is given to us as toys for our own amusement and we are
not isolated events waiting to expire. We each have purpose even
though the greatness of it may not show up for many years.

People have committed assisted suicide, because pain was too great in
their bodies or emotions. Some of those people were suffering from
things I've seen quietly healed outside mainstream methods. That's
not something for me to prove. It's an observation of one of the
greatest tragedies I've witnessed.

When you accept that an 'incurable' disease exists, then you deny God.
Just because the man next door says there is nothing else that can be
done to heal the situation, doesn't mean it is so.
Science looks for answers within an imperfect environment. Since
perfection cannot spring from imperfection, then science will never
have all the answers.

That doesn't mean to not use modern medical methods.
It just means that other answers exist outside that limitation.

This is what I am trying to say!

You see, medical science looking at a physical functioning body (e.an
organ is just an organ, collectively, making up a full functioing
body, that's all. In other alternatives medicine, we look at the
functioning body system as a human's Solar System running parallel to
our existing Solar System, we all are living in ie. the function of a
human's heart run parallel to the Solar's Sun, the 9 major organs run
parallel to the 9 Orbital planets, our purity blood run parallel to
the Solar Sun's sunlight and lastly, the human's spiritual head with
umlimited/infinities thoughts, runs parallel to the 'Infinite Heaven',
the Supreme Creator.)comprising of 'flesh and bones' only, but, forgot
that, there is 'something' very spiritual that known as the 'spiritual
soul'.

Quoted message said:

When you want a life greater than what you currently have, then you
must reach outside your current understandings and comforts. That is
far more difficult than it sounds, because our comforts give us the
impression we are honestly doing the best we can, when we are just
spinning the wheel to get to the next day.

Mike

Quoted message said:

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What does a person with an incurable disease do?

Another valid consideration: Why is it considered
necessary to do ANYTHING?

marvin

Marvin L. Zinn
Reply to: [email hidden]
Using Virtual Access
Windows 2000 build 2600

"Robert Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"yansimon52" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> "Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> > news:[email hidden]...
> > > "Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

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> > >

Too long a story!!!! my fren!!!

Well, one thing I would like to point out is on 'herbs'.

Dacade ago, every now and then, we came across very impression
research project for a cure on aids viruses. So impressive that under
test-tube condition, those aids viruses were eleminated, but, when put
on 'live trial', back to square one, can't do a thing at all.
C'mon man, these medical scientists were using some kind of bitter
melon, a kind of temperate herbal plant, in holsitic interpretation-
temperate herbs were all categorised as 'orthodox herbs', to treat an
'unorthodox sickness'? These medical scientists must be dreaming!!!
This show that, medical science don't even know the logics (its
categorisation on herbal plants) of herbal application.
Firstly, to understand that, scientist must also, understand the
difference between these 2 categories of herbs, its characteristic and
the role they play to serve mankind's sicknesses. Take for example,
most temperate herbs come with rich minerals as compared to tropical
herbs that usually contain alot of rich enyzmes. In science, we are
talking about minerals help organ functioning and enyzmes help to
'cleanse' body system.

To understand further on herbal plant, especially on its
categorisation ie. orthodox and unorthodox groupings, it interprets as
orthodox herbal grouping emphasis alot on sunlight for their growth as
compared to unorthodox herbal grouping, that depend on 'darkness' for
their growth. In this regard, the fungus families that used to produce
antibiotics, are also, considered as the 'unorthodox herbal grouping'.
That is why, once those antibiotic entered the human body, its first
target is to invade the 'purity blood system', killing all those
so-called 'germs'(and red cells) swimming within the blood system.
To understand why the unorthodx herbal grouping only concentrate in
either invading or cleansing the blood system only, this has something
to do with the characteristic of these 'spiritual element'. Same as,
why the spiritual elements or its agent (ie. those unorthodox viruses)
from the darkside loathe the sight of purity.

Does medical science has this sort of knowledge to understand all
these!!!

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Well can anyone really tell me, where one turns to?

Rod.

Science is at its most interesting when it has only questions.

--Rich

I agree. Instead of always looking for solutions, sometimes we should
be making sure we have the right questions.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/conspiracy.htm

"Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

yansimon52 <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

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<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Its true, medical science knows 'nuts' as far as mankind sickness is
concern. It is only with the help from modern technology, that medical
science has comes this far.

Oh, bullocks. Medical technology is an integral part of the medical
practice. Saying that it's the technology, not the science is denying the
science in technology.

A little bit more insight into alternative medicine and a little less attitude.

Carole
http://www.austarmetro.com.au/~hubbca/conspiracy.htm