When helmets make no sense

"Rodders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When helmets make no sense

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet1.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet2.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet3.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet4.jpg

Rodders

Great pix, but obviously the helmets are redundant in that situation, as you
point out.

No cars.

Quoted message said:

Rodders said:

When helmets make no sense

I would have though that is where you would want to wear a helmet,
specifically a proper mountaineering hat. This would help protect you
from rocks falling from above or wacking your head against the rock face.

Martin.

On 29/05/2007 21:15, Rodders said,

Quoted message said:

When helmets make no sense

You should see the video clip, where one of the riders (must be Hans,
surely?) does an endo towards the cliff edge.

'ere y'go:-

(about 1:10 in)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Rodders said:

When helmets make no sense

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet1.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet2.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet3.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet4.jpg

Rodders

Do you think they shold have taken them off for that part of the ride?

On 29 May 2007 23:25:52 -0700, "The other view point, there is one you

know... said:

Rodders said:

When helmets make no sense

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet1.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet2.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet3.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet4.jpg

Rodders

Do you think they shold have taken them off for that part of the ride?

Do you think you could frame your thoughts as statements?

Do you think you could refrain from provoking a pointless helmet
flamefest?

Do you think you could admit you are a troll and crawl back under your
bridge?

"Marc Brett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 29 May 2007 23:25:52 -0700, "The other view point, there is one you
know..." <[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip><snip>

Quoted message said:

Do you think you could refrain from provoking a pointless helmet
flamefest?

Do you think you could admit you are a troll and crawl back under your
bridge?

'ere 'ere

--
Trevor A Panther
In South Yorkshire,
England, United Kingdom.
www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

They are the idiots who went cycling along the ledges of the Cliffs of
Moher in County Clare recently. Nothing to protect in the heads anyway!

Garry from Cork wrote on 31/05/2007 07:45 +0100:

Quoted message said:

They are the idiots who went cycling along the ledges of the Cliffs of
Moher in County Clare recently. Nothing to protect in the heads anyway!

Those "idiots" include Hans Rey, an individual who, over as many years
as I can remember, has been famous for extreme stunt riding on a
mountain bike for which he gets handsomely sponsored by the industry.
So not any old idiot and its part of his day job.
http://www.hansrey.com/

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

Tony Raven said:

Garry from Cork wrote on 31/05/2007 07:45 +0100:

Quoted message said:

They are the idiots who went cycling along the ledges of the Cliffs of
Moher in County Clare recently. Nothing to protect in the heads anyway!

Those "idiots" include Hans Rey, an individual who, over as many years
as I can remember, has been famous for extreme stunt riding on a
mountain bike for which he gets handsomely sponsored by the industry.
So not any old idiot and its part of his day job.http://www.hansrey.com/

--
Tony

"The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there
is no good evidence either way."
- Bertrand Russell

A professional cyclist and wearing a helmet too, sounds like he knows
what's what ;-)

http://www.rospa.org.uk/roadsafety/advice/cycling/cycling_accidents.htm

see what they say about head injuries, see what they say about helmets?

The other view point said:

A professional cyclist and wearing a helmet too, sounds like he knows
what's what ;-)

Read the article in the June 2007 Procycling by Chris Boardman (record
breaking Olympic gold winning British pro, you might even have heard of
him). He sounds like he knows what's what, and he sounds that way
because he actually goes to the trouble of saying why he thinks what he
thinks and why he does what he does. Which is to not always wear a
helmet, and not to be concerned that his daughter doesn't always wear
one either. Read it and see for yourself, rather than jumping to
conclusions. CB also sat on the National Cycling Strategy board to
advise the government on safety matters for cyclists, including the
impact of mandating helmets, so he knows his stuff.

Quoted message said:

http://www.rospa.org.uk/roadsafety/advice/cycling/cycling_accidents.htm

see what they say about head injuries, see what they say about helmets?

http://www.cyclehelmets.org

See what they have to say about the dopey research you're assuming has
been done right, and the ridiculous degree of alarm over something
that's basically safe.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7276/1582

See what will really help cyclists be safe.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 31 May 2007 01:23:36 -0700, "The other view point, there is one you

know... said:

A professional cyclist and wearing a helmet too, sounds like he knows
what's what ;-)

As a professional sportsman, he'll know how his money is earned. Since
Bell is one of his sponsors, it's a very good idea -- indeed it's
probably a contractual obligation -- to wear their product!

It says nothing about whether said product is any good.

Peter Clinch said:

The other view point, there is one you know... wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.rospa.org.uk/roadsafety/advice/cycling/cycling_accidents.htm

see what they say about head injuries, see what they say about helmets?

http://www.cyclehelmets.org

Even the ROSPA page doesn't give much weight to helmets, mentioning
them last in a list of six ways of improving cyclist safety.

Brendan
--
Brendan Halpin, Department of Sociology, University of Limerick, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-338562; Room F2-025 x 3147
[email hidden] http://www.ul.ie/sociology/brendan.halpin.html

The other view point said:

A professional cyclist and wearing a helmet too, sounds like he knows
what's what ;-)

What a professional does and wears does not always translate to people
doing the activity in a very different context and for very different
purposes. Extreme mountain biking is not the same as trundling to the
shop, like running a marathon in Nepal is not the same as a jog around the
block.

Different purposes, different criteria, different gear.

Though the outdoor shops are happy to convince their customers that they
need a jacket that can cope with extreme conditions on Everest for a walk
around the local park!

Roos

"Rodders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When helmets make no sense

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet1.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet2.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet3.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t133/Rodders_album/Helmet4.jpg

On a slightly different note, do you actually have the right to put those
pics in your album? You could always point people to Hans Rey's site
instead, which would have the advantage that you're not breaking copyright.

cheers,
clive

Roos Eisma said:

The other view point said:

A professional cyclist and wearing a helmet too, sounds like he knows
what's what ;-)

What a professional does and wears does not always translate to people
doing the activity in a very different context and for very different
purposes. Extreme mountain biking is not the same as trundling to the
shop, like running a marathon in Nepal is not the same as a jog around the
block.

Different purposes, different criteria, different gear.

Though the outdoor shops are happy to convince their customers that they
need a jacket that can cope with extreme conditions on Everest for a walk
around the local park!

Roos

Sales people tut, ;-)

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

Garry from Cork wrote on 31/05/2007 07:45 +0100:

Quoted message said:

They are the idiots who went cycling along the ledges of the Cliffs of
Moher in County Clare recently. Nothing to protect in the heads anyway!

Those "idiots" include Hans Rey, an individual who, over as many years
as I can remember, has been famous for extreme stunt riding on a
mountain bike for which he gets handsomely sponsored by the industry.

The other was Steve Peat, was it not? He's not exactly your average rider,
either. And riding the cliffs of Moher is a lot safer than his day job.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
"The result is a language that... not even its mother could
love. Like the camel, Common Lisp is a horse designed by
committee. Camels do have their uses."
;; Scott Fahlman, 7 March 1995

The other view point said:

Surely the BMI is a spoof, and a very good one too

Read the whole thing, beyond the first section. Wardlaw asks: "You
think I am being facetious? Let us examine the facts." and then provides
plenty of them. The BMJ doesn't publish spoof articles.

Quoted message said:

from BMJ
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/gca?allch=&SEARCHID=1&FULLTEXT=cycling+helmets&FIRSTINDEX=0&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&gca=bmj%3B308%2F6943%2F1537&gca=bmj%3B308%2F6922%2F173&allchb=
--------------------------------
Abstract

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Conclusion : The findings suggest an increased risk of sustaining head
injury in a bicycle accident when a motor vehicle is involved and
confirm protective effect of helmet wearing for any bicycle accident.
--------------------

Which is the sort of statiscis I would have liked a few days ago, not
the flawed ones you quote.

What is flawed about the ones I quoted? Aside from them not confirming
your prejudices?

You might also usefully read
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/332/7543/722-a which shows what *has
actually happened* with increasing use of helmets, and in summary that's
nothing useful at all.

It's very easy to quote selective studies that are badly designed and
where the method is a very poor fit to the data to "prove" the benefits
of helmets, but it's much harder to take several whole populations where
nothing has improved with increasing helmet use and take that as proof
that helmets are worth the time of day for day to day transport cycling.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

The other view point said:

Surely the BMI is a spoof, and a very good one too

Read the whole thing, beyond the first section. Wardlaw asks: "You
think I am being facetious? Let us examine the facts." and then provides
plenty of them. The BMJ doesn't publish spoof articles.

Quoted message said:

Pete.
--

I started to read the article, I checked the date then mmmmmm
Pedestrian helmets, cabinet wearing them, then the photos of Fony
Flair and the fat fighter in helmets just confirmed it for me, so
stopped reading the rest of it.

Wardlaw = Consultant on Cycling, Health and Safety, Edinburgh,
Scotland. (I'll look him up to see what sort of professiona role he
has, should the need arise)

I'm sticking to "statistics can prove anything", plenty of them on the
WWW.

Just for the record i'm not in favour of compulsory helmets, but their
use should be encouraged.

This is not to insult you but of general interest in how statistics
can and are use for a particular reason
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/stat3.html
I didn't have a lot of time to look, off to the gym ;-) only so much
free time

Quick question for you,
Do you wear riding gloves; 1 - yes, 2 - sometimes, 3 - never.
Do you wear a helmet; 1 - yes, 2 - sometimes, 3 - never.

On 31 May 2007 02:41:54 -0700 someone who may be "The other view
point, there is one you know..." <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7276/1582

See what will really help cyclists be safe.

Surely the BMI is a spoof, and a very good one too

Ah, proof by assertion.

I note that you didn't counter the arguments therein.

Quoted message said:

from BMJ
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/gca?allch=&SEARCHID=1&FULLTEXT=cycling+helmets&FIRSTINDEX=0&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&gca=bmj%3B308%2F6943%2F1537&gca=bmj%3B308%2F6922%2F173&allchb=

An article from 1994.

Should you really be interested in the subject and not just trolling
I suggest reading Dorothy Robinson's article from 2006

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/332/7543/722-a?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&minscore=5000&resourcetype=HWCIT

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54