When getting back into shape

Simpledog said:

Is it better to say;

run 2 miles every day, 6 days a week..

or 3 miles every other day, until your mileage is back up?

(1 year layoff)

Every other day is much better. Every day, 6 days a week is far too much,
too soon for someone who's out of shape.

That's a sure recipe for overtraining, injury and ultimately a disaster.
Give yourself a fighting chance of sticking with it this time, and give your
body some time to heal in between runs.

Regards,
H.

"Simpledog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Is it better to say;

run 2 miles every day, 6 days a week..

or 3 miles every other day, until your mileage is back up?

(1 year layoff)

Every other day to allow rest and solid recovery especially after the
lay off.

-DF

Quoted message said:

Every other day is much better. Every day, 6 days a week is far too much,
too soon for someone who's out of shape.

Just not true. 6 days a week is what every runner should do, perhaps 7 days. A
days rest between runs is not needed. Consistency will do far more for you.

Quoted message said:

That's a sure recipe for overtraining, injury and ultimately a disaster.

More BS. Rest when needed, but not every other day.

Quoted message said:

Every other day is much better.

___

not at all necessarily valid/true. the OP did not disclose enough details to
solicit the best opinion. there are too many variables to consider to simply
shoot from the hip here. age, background in running, degree of how "out of
shape" the person is in...etc.

the best answer is, "it depends"..(on the variables).

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Every other day is much better.

___

not at all necessarily valid/true. the OP did not disclose enough
details to
solicit the best opinion. there are too many variables to consider
to simply
shoot from the hip here. age, background in running, degree of how
"out of
shape" the person is in...etc.

the best answer is, "it depends"..(on the variables).

He said a year layoff which implies he is just starting back. I stand by
my every other day.

-DF

"Simpledog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Is it better to say;
run 2 miles every day, 6 days a week..
or 3 miles every other day, until your mileage is back up?

Whatever is most comfortable for you. Because you should think
about doing this for years and years. Any resentment may cause
you stop at the first problem.

I have a slight preference for more days a week. Running becomes
an ingrained habit, and I feel something lacking when I take a day off.
Other people may be very busy and need to concentrate their exercise,
so every other day is just as good.

It doesnt hurt to throw in a little variety. I try to get in one "hard"
run a week. That might be to run a couple minutes faster or ten minutes longer
than average. Another change is the "scenic run". On a day when I have more
free time, drive to nice park, lake or nature trail and run there.

Leafing through rec.running, I read Simpledog's message of 18 Nov 2004:

Quoted message said:

Is it better to say;

run 2 miles every day, 6 days a week..

or 3 miles every other day, until your mileage is back up?

(1 year layoff)

Because of the 1 year layoff, I'd go with 3 miles every other day. Add a
little extra to one of the days. Then work in a 4th day (Tu-We-Fr-Su).
Taking it easy on Wednesday and adding a little more on Sunday. There are
numerous ways of going about this. You might want to check out one of the
online beginners schedules at www.runnersworld.com.

Phil M.

--
"What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John Short,
South African coach.

Doug Freese said:

Every other day to allow rest and solid recovery especially after the
lay off.

Depends on how "hard" running 2 miles is and what the objective for running is.
If he has joint pain or recovery problems (elevated heart rate in the
morning), then he needs a rest day. I have incoming cross country kids (never
been in a running program before) start with 3 mi/day 5 days/wk--some running,
some walking initially--with the objective initially being to just cover the
distance (if they want to crawl, that's ok). Over 2-3 weeks, there is
gradually less walking and moire running, and when they can do 15 mi/wk almost
all running, they start intervals.

If the objective is to lose weight, I'd start alternating running and
weightlifting days. An hour continuously lifting weights is worth several miles
running in the calorie department, and the alternation burns quite a few
calories without getting the volume too high for either exercise.

Lyndon

"Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach
Brooks Johnson

"Lyndon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Freese said:

Every other day to allow rest and solid recovery especially after the
lay off.

Depends on how "hard" running 2 miles is and what the objective for
running is.

I don't agree. If he is just getting back and his body needs to
readjust. While doing two miles may seem easy, even easy may be doing
little micro tears and over a week or so do some damage. I'm suggesting
you don't temp the injury gods by running every other day and allowing
some recovery. You can NOT go wrong with rest but can go wrong doing too
much. Why push it?

-Doug

Simpledog said:

Is it better to say;

run 2 miles every day, 6 days a week..

or 3 miles every other day, until your mileage is back up?

(1 year layoff)

I would do every other day for running, and perhaps walk on the off
days. I'm having the best luck with increasing my distance if I'm not
taking the off days fully "off". A brisk walk on my off days tends to
make be better able to increase a reasonable amount on my running days.

That said, my "increases" are very modest (I'm about 40 lbs
overweight).

This keeps me from getting injured (and for me, running every day is a
sure-fire recipe for injury - my first injury happened when I was
running 4 days per week M,T,TH,F, 2.5 miles at a time, and was quite
thin (and young - I was 23 at the time). I was new to running, yes,
but I'd been running for 6-12 months when it happened. ITB hip problem
that's never recurred. My second injury happened years later when I'd
already gained the weight, and was having issues with stress relief, so
I started running again, very, very short distances (1/10 of a mile)
but every day. Whammo, my knees (which are pretty strong - I've rarely
had problems with them) both went out, and I had to switch to Yoga for
a few weeks until they healed.

So, I guess I recommend every other day for awhile, walk or bike on the
off days, then work up to every day gradually.

Cathy Weeks

Lanceandrew said:

Quoted message said:

Every other day is much better.

___

Quoted message said:

not at all necessarily valid/true. the OP did not disclose enough details to
solicit the best opinion. there are too many variables to consider to simply
shoot from the hip here. age, background in running, degree of how "out of
shape" the person is in...etc.

A little bit of psychoanalysis for you, Lance.

The fact that the poster posted the question indicates that
he's not experienced the layoff phenomenon before. That implies
he's probably either a newbie or a low/medium mileage runner.

If he were "in shape" from other activity, he probably wouldn't
feel the need to ask such a question. That again implies he's
probably not in any shape and doesn't want to risk injuring himself.

Also implicit is that he's not a kid, probably a mature adult.
Kids think they are in shape all the time and don't need to
ask such questions.

Also, he doesn't seem like a type-A personality. If he were,
he'd be posting something like this: "After a 1 year layoff
from running and not being in shape, I decided to start
running again. This week, I ran 5 times for a total of 65
miles with a long run of 18 miles. Yesterday, my left foot
started hurting in the underside of the arch and today my
right knee has been bothering me...."

Given these, I agree that "Every other day is much better."

Quoted message said:

the best answer is, "it depends"..(on the variables).

C'mon Lance, is that what you'd tell a kid who comes up to
you and asks "Where do babies come from?"
It depends?

Why do you want to make it more complicated than it is?
If he needs more clarification, he'll ask. He's not looking
for the best answer under the given circumstances.

Seems to me that you've had more than your fair share of
lawsuits that makes you want to provide a bullet-proof answer
that cannot be subject to any misinterpretation whatsoever
by whomsoever in any form or spirit.

jobs

p.s.: Relax man, I'm just pushing some buttons.

Lanceandrew said:

Quoted message said:

Every other day is much better.

___

not at all necessarily valid/true. the OP did not disclose enough
details to solicit the best opinion. there are too many variables
to consider to simply shoot from the hip here. age, background in
running, degree of how "out of shape" the person is in...etc.

the best answer is, "it depends"..(on the variables).

Complete nonsense. He said he's just taken a year off, what further details
do you need? Anyone taking a complete year off, and then jumping directly
back into 6 days a week training is just begging for injury and failure,
regardless of the reason behind his year off. How much you want to bet that
the reason behind his year off was an injury induced by overtraining in the
first place? I'd take that bet in a minute.

Besides, the answer to ANY question here can be "it depends". But, he asked
a very specific question, and he didn't come here looking for someone to
tell him "it depends". He asked for opinions, and I gave him mine. Almost
any book on running (I live by Bob Glover's books personally) or any real
live coach would probably have given him the exact same opinion. Even
Runner's World this month perscribed the exact same thing for beginners. 48
hrs. between runs. It just makes good sense.

And, not only that, can you give me one specific case where jumping directly
into 6 day a week training would be wise for someone who has just not run in
a year? There very well might be one or two, but I can't imagine who that
would be.

Regards,
H.

Quoted message said:

Complete nonsense. He said he's just taken a year off, what further details

do you need?
__

age, exercise background, current physical status. (the OP did not say he was
overweight)

Quoted message said:

Besides, the answer to ANY question here can be "it depends".

No, for example, what does DF wear in his ultras? Oopps...you got me, I
guess you are right.

Quoted message said:

But, he asked a very specific question,

Without disclosing his experience, age, current shape, etc. Saying you're "not
in shape" can mean you have average or below average Cardio. Look pal, I am
simply saying before you dispense proper advise....a clearer picture of the OP
is warranted. Is that so crazy?

Quoted message said:

he didn't come here looking for someone to

tell him "it depends". He asked for opinions, and I gave him mine.

You opinion is founded on assumptions. My response was to inform the OP that
he should disclose a more full picture for a more on target response.

Quoted message said:

Almost

any book on running (I live by Bob Glover's books personally) or any real
live coach would probably have given him the exact same opinion.

I see Bob almost every week and I'll be sure to tell him "H" "LIVES" by his
every published word. Pal, Didn't you just read last week when Donovan
mentioned Bob has to "soft peddle" his published words to curtail lawsuits, fit
in with the political climate, etc. I personally know Bob's greatest young
runner (I went to college w/his father) and Bob trains this kid well beyond
what he would publicly state is appropriate for a kid his age. The point?
Just because Bob puts it in print, don't think Bob doesn't exceed/push beyond
it w/his runners it in the real world.

Quoted message said:

And, not only that, can you give me one specific case where jumping directly

into 6 day a week training would be wise for someone who has just not run in
a year?
Regards,
H.
___

.....btw H, can we be more specific on the term "year"?....are we talking lunar
or dog? because if all this time we're talking dog years....well....i can give
you lots of cases...

I think that you are better with the every other day method to allow things
time to heal in between. I run with about a group of 30 every weekend.
I've noticed for a long time that the best runners run 3-5 times per week
but their runs are quality runs. Those who run every day or nearly every
day just don't do as well and have more aches and pains and injuries.

Just an observation...

Quoted message said:

I run with about a group of 30 every weekend. I've noticed for a long time

that the best runners run 3-5 times per week
but their runs are quality runs. Those who run every day or nearly every
day just don't do as well and have more aches and pains and injuries.
Just an observation...
_____

does your group run marathons competitively? i don't believe i've ever seen an
advanced training schedule that called for less than 6 days of running/week.

you're saying those that run as few as 3 days a week outperform those than run
as much as 6 days per week....are you observing this at the marathon distance?

Lanceandrew said:

age, exercise background, current physical status. (the OP did not
say he was overweight)

ALL of which are trumped by the fact he hasn't run in at least a year.

Quoted message said:

No, for example, what does DF wear in his ultras? Oopps...you got
me, I guess you are right.

The answer to that is far too much information for me.

Quoted message said:

Without disclosing his experience, age, current shape, etc. Saying
you're "not in shape" can mean you have average or below average
Cardio. Look pal, I am simply saying before you dispense proper
advise....a clearer picture of the OP is warranted. Is that so crazy?

In either case, no one would advise beginning training by running 6 days a
week, average cardio health or not! Even if he was in shape, starting out
by running 6 days a week is just not the right thing to do.

Quoted message said:

You opinion is founded on assumptions. My response was to inform the
OP that he should disclose a more full picture for a more on target
response.

My opinion is founded on rock solid advice from Bob and other highly
regarded sources, not to mention my own personal training experience, none
of which are assumptions on my part in any way, shape, or form.

Quoted message said:

I see Bob almost every week and I'll be sure to tell him "H" "LIVES"
by his every published word. Pal, Didn't you just read last week

Please do. Bob's my hero. Seriously. I love his books, and I think he
knows what he's talking about.

Quoted message said:

when Donovan mentioned Bob has to "soft peddle" his published words
to curtail lawsuits, fit in with the political climate, etc.

Now, you are assuming that Donovan's opinion stated here on usenet is more
important that Bob's written word? While I respect Donovan's opinion, I'll
stick with Bob's books in real life. When Donovan writes a book that
disputes Bob's advice, I'll certainly buy it and read it, but I'm sticking
with Bob's advice and training plans in the meantime.

Quoted message said:

personally know Bob's greatest young runner (I went to college w/his
father) and Bob trains this kid well beyond what he would publicly
state is appropriate for a kid his age. The point? Just because Bob
puts it in print, don't think Bob doesn't exceed/push beyond it w/his
runners it in the real world.

Let's get back to the point. Bob, or any other coach is not going to
advocate running 6 days a week right off the bat for anyone, great talent or
no. It ain't because they are 'soft peddling' or anything else, it's just
good common sense.

Quoted message said:

....btw H, can we be more specific on the term "year"?....are we
talking lunar or dog? because if all this time we're talking dog
years....well....i can give you lots of cases...

Obviously, since you can't come up with a single example of when 6 day a
week training would be appropriate for a runner that hasn't run in a year, I
can only assume that you've figured out that you're wrong. Come on, Lance!
At least come up with one good example to defend your argument and I might
be swayed, but otherwise I'm sticking to my guns on this one. A solid year
not running is more than enough information to answer the OP's question,
regardless of whatever other factors are involved. No one, under *any*
circumstances, should begin or resume training by running 6 days a week
right off the bat. No one.

Regards,
H.

Greg Lanier said:

I think that you are better with the every other day method to allow things
time to heal in between. I run with about a group of 30 every weekend.
I've noticed for a long time that the best runners run 3-5 times per week

How good are they ?

It might be true of the "best" runners in that group. It isn't true of the
best runners in the world, of those on elite circuit (e.g. Bob, Meb, Deena) or
even the faster runners on the local circuit.

Quoted message said:

but their runs are quality runs.

What makes a run a "quality" run ?

Quoted message said:

Those who run every day or nearly every
day just don't do as well and have more aches and pains and injuries.

You can get aches, pains and injuries with either method.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

I think the operative word is "kids", SimpleDogs is perhaps a tad over
the high school age group.

That said I have always preferred varying the mileage, in this case, 3
off 4 off 3 off 5 off 3 off 4 off, etc, varying the mileage instead of
the speed until you are up to running six or seven miles at a time, then
start filling in the off days until you are up six day a week. Three is
a basic minimum for me, can't do three, kill myself.

Lyndon said:

Doug Freese said:

Quoted message said:

Every other day to allow rest and solid recovery especially after the

lay off. > Depends on how "hard" running 2 miles is and what the

objective for running is. If he has joint pain or recovery problems
(elevated heart rate in the morning), then he needs a rest day. I have
incoming cross country kids (never been in a running program before) start
with 3 mi/day 5 days/wk--some running, some walking initially--with the
objective initially being to just cover the distance (if they want to
crawl, that's ok). Over 2-3 weeks, there is gradually less walking and
moire running, and when they can do 15 mi/wk almost all running, they
start intervals.

If the objective is to lose weight, I'd start alternating running and
weightlifting days. An hour continuously lifting weights is worth several
miles running in the calorie department, and the alternation burns quite a
few calories without getting the volume too high for either exercise.

Lyndon

"Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track
Coach Brooks Johnson

Quoted message said:

Obviously, since you can't come up with a single example of when 6 day a

week training would be appropriate for a runner that hasn't run in a year
____

H, you do understand i am having fun here right?....having said that i have
placed no effort in seeking an example. however though i will say this.

i note you make an effort to repeated emphasis "6 days" and negate mentioning
again 2 miles a day is the context in which we're talking here. in
otherwords, you intentionally seem to want to spin the context and expand the
enormity of the endeavor, omit we're talking about jogging 3200m (or so) and
assume worse case scenario about the OP's background and current condition. I
just want to "reframe" what we're really talking about.

I think hundreds of people every week wake up one day after having not jogged
in a year, quit procrastinating, put on their running shoes, and jog as much as
2 miles. Then proceed to do it again as much as 7 days a week. I think if
you went to enough retail stores that sold running shoes, store managers would
tell you this is not "unheard of" w/customers they've had..and they've managed
to do this free of injury.

I believe a lot of people don't necessarily know what the hell they're
doing...they just do it....and continue on and manage to do it injury free.
They're casually jogging at a slow pace....but they do it. I believe this
happens by the hundreds every week in America.

Me? I had not ran in 8 years...I got caught up in the living in the Manhattan
rat race, etc....and then one day when many of the things in my life basically
became "undone"......I decided to get back "to me", and one of those things was
being a runner. I looked at my pair of Etonic Air Pro III shoes and decided I
needed something new. I bought a pair of Brooks Trances and ran 4 miles EVERY
DAY for the next 6 months. I repeat, everyday! True story.

Now I had a background in running and being an athlete. I had mental
discipline, and I ran for reasons beyond fitness, it was personally very
therapuetic for me.

My point? I don't think I am the only one in the world that has transforming
points in life like this and is capable of doing something like this.

Lots of former runners and athletes who've not ran in 1 year can return to
running 2 miles a day, 6 days,...no _7_ days a week w/no problem.

The proper answer is as I initially stated, "it depends". The OP left no
details about themeselves and their background.