When Did Milk Start Getting The Bad Rap?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

I came from a time when Milk Drinking was considered a Very Good Thing.
My original milk experience started when milkmen delivered their product
in glass bottles right to the house & continues to this day.. Though I
absolutely LOVE a tall cold glass of milk & preferably three or four
daily as I have for the last half century, I have to wonder whether I'm
ruining my health or whether "those other people" have it wrong??

It depends on what your biggest considerations are.

For example, the anti-milk fanatics notwithstanding, milk is a good
source of calcium, which many Americans (especially women) don't get
enough of.

On the other hand, whole milk is fairly high in saturated fat, which
is not a good thing for most adults.

I compromise by drinking 1% milk, which has significantly less fat,
but all the calcium. (I refuse to drink skim -- I think it tastes
awful.)

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

DW: I agree the non-fat milk looks (purple) & tastes(?) awful, so I
went from whole to 2% about 20 years ago, then 1% about 10+ years ago,
where I remain. I wonder how half & half (non/1%) would taste? That
might be a possibility.

DW: I agree the non-fat milk looks (purple) & tastes(?) awful, so I
went from whole to 2% about 20 years ago, then 1% about 10+ years ago,
where I remain. I wonder how half & half (non/1%) would taste? That
might be a possibility.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

DW: I agree the non-fat milk looks (purple) & tastes(?) awful, so I
went from whole to 2% about 20 years ago, then 1% about 10+ years ago,
where I remain. I wonder how half & half (non/1%) would taste? That
might be a possibility.

No harm in it, certainly. I just haven't been interested enough to
try mixing my own.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Don't forget guys that full cream milk is still only 5% fat, if it were any
other food that would be labelled low fat.
Also when you throw out the fat the vitimins go with it.

20 years ago when milk can in bottles it also wasn't homogenised which
substantially messes up the fats and makes them more hazardous; remember how
we used to shake the bottle, if you shop around unhomogenised milk is still
out there. Even better is non pasturised milk.

Lastly, everyone is different and function best on different kinds of diets;
some people thrive as vegetarians while other shrivel and become anaemic.
The same is true of milk digestion. If it doesn't give you any obvious
digestive or mucous problems then your probably fine; next time you visit
the doctor get a standard blood test and check up done to make sure.

Enjoy -A.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DW: I agree the non-fat milk looks (purple) & tastes(?) awful, so I
went from whole to 2% about 20 years ago, then 1% about 10+ years ago,
where I remain. I wonder how half & half (non/1%) would taste? That
might be a possibility.

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[email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I compromise by drinking 1% milk, which has significantly less fat,
but all the calcium. (I refuse to drink skim -- I think it tastes
awful.)

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

I very rarely drink milk. When I do, it's non-fat. After eschewing
the whole & 1% for many years, I've found they taste "gummy" (for lack
of a better word).

It's like many foods & beverages -- you get used to a particular taste
& a different variety tastes weird....

Michele
I ENJOY being a cranky [censored].

"Alan Jacques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Don't forget guys that full cream milk is still only 5% fat, if it were

any

Quoted message said:

other food that would be labelled low fat.
Also when you throw out the fat the vitimins go with it.

20 years ago when milk can in bottles it also wasn't homogenised which
substantially messes up the fats and makes them more hazardous; remember

how

Quoted message said:

we used to shake the bottle, if you shop around unhomogenised milk is

still

Quoted message said:

out there. Even better is non pasturised milk.

There is some links with homogenised milk and asthma, I read something years
ago about he rise of asthma in populations since the end of the glass
bottle.

Worst part is the amount of time that "fresh milk" now has a useby date - 14
days in cartons. Theres gotta be more than just homogenisation and
pasturisation going on to get it to last that long.

Some areas only get reconstituted milk as well - they reduce the water
content, then put into tanks for transport, at the other end they add the
water back and sell the muck as fresh milk.

Quoted message said:

Lastly, everyone is different and function best on different kinds of

diets;

Quoted message said:

some people thrive as vegetarians while other shrivel and become anaemic.
The same is true of milk digestion. If it doesn't give you any obvious
digestive or mucous problems then your probably fine; next time you visit
the doctor get a standard blood test and check up done to make sure.

Enjoy -A.

"Michele" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I compromise by drinking 1% milk, which has significantly less fat,
but all the calcium. (I refuse to drink skim -- I think it tastes
awful.)

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

I very rarely drink milk. When I do, it's non-fat. After eschewing
the whole & 1% for many years, I've found they taste "gummy" (for lack
of a better word).

It's like many foods & beverages -- you get used to a particular taste
& a different variety tastes weird....

I recently had a mouthful of whole milk, after using 1% and the special skim
that is just like 15 but non fat.

The whole milk was THICK and creamy

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: When Did Milk Start Getting The Bad Rap?
From: "Roger Martin" [email hidden]
Date: 2/2/04 5:33 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There is some links with homogenised milk and asthma, I read something years
ago about he rise of asthma in populations since the end of the glass
bottle.

I have a book where an MD is relating his belief that homogenized milk was
causing children to be sick. It is true that an enzyme that is toxic to humans
is in milk and when homogenized, the enzyme is not deactivated in the stomach,
thus poisoning humans.

There are other books, like "Don't drink your milk", written by concerned MDs,
that think pasteurization of milk is the problem.
And do not think that drinking milk will help you with avoiding calcium
deficiency or osteoporosis. Actually, drinking homogenized, pasteurized milk
accelerates calcium deficiency and osteoporosis.

Since pasterurization is the heating of milk to say 150 degrees and holding it
there for 20 to 30 minutes, ultra-pasteurization is heating the white poison to
250 degrees for about 0.1 seconds ( how they do that I do not know ). Knowing
what homogenization and pasteurization does to the white stuff, what does
ultra-pasteurization do since that stuff does not even have to be refrigerated
to keep?

DrC PhD

In article <[email hidden]>,

DRCEEPHD said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: When Did Milk Start Getting The Bad Rap?
From: "Roger Martin" [email hidden]
Date: 2/2/04 5:33 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

There is some links with homogenised milk and asthma, I read something years
ago about he rise of asthma in populations since the end of the glass
bottle.

Quoted message said:

I have a book where an MD is relating his belief that homogenized
milk was causing children to be sick. It is true that an enzyme that
is toxic to humans is in milk and when homogenized, the enzyme is not
deactivated in the stomach, thus poisoning humans.

You have books that say all kinds of stuff. You need better books.

That "enzyme" story sounds like total nonsense to me. I can't even
see a mechanism by which it *could* be true.

Quoted message said:

There are other books, like "Don't drink your milk", written by
concerned MDs, that think pasteurization of milk is the problem.

Yes, we should all be drinking unpasteurized milk and picking up
various lovely diseases. That sort of thing happens fairly often to
the "raw milk" crowd. (Oh, not always -- but it's still Russian
Roulette.)

Quoted message said:

And do not think that drinking milk will help you with avoiding
calcium deficiency or osteoporosis. Actually, drinking homogenized,
pasteurized milk accelerates calcium deficiency and osteoporosis.

Oh, *sure* it does. I await evidence.

Quoted message said:

Since pasterurization is the heating of milk to say 150 degrees and
holding it there for 20 to 30 minutes,

63 degrees C for30 minutes or 71 degrees C for 15 seconds.

Quoted message said:

ultra-pasteurization is heating the white poison to 250 degrees for
about 0.1 seconds ( how they do that I do not know ).

I'm not surprised you don't know, but since youre characterization of
the process is wrong, it's not too surprising. One way is to bring
the milk into contact with steam at 140 degrees C for 1-2 seconds.
The other method is to drop a thin film of milk through a chamber of
high-temperature steam, then it's flash-cooled at the bottom.

You can get the whole source I used for this at

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/stuff/7945sci2.html

It took me all of ten seconds to dig this up in google, but "Dr" Cee's
research skills are remarkably poor.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

I'd say that pasturisation is still needed - maybe people forget that
untreated milk was a common cause of disease back in the 1940s and even upto
the 50s. I think it was TB that was the main problem - but I'm not sure.
People who drink fresh milk (straight out of the cow) dont seem to have any
health problems nowadays - maybe the cows are healthier.

When they pickup milk at the farms in Australia they take samples from each
farm and have that tested for known antibiotics - but with de-regulation I
wonder if a quality control manager would have the balls to dump a million
litres if he found something rotten after the bad load had been mixed into
the vats.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Martin said:

I'd say that pasturisation is still needed - maybe people forget that
untreated milk was a common cause of disease back in the 1940s and even upto
the 50s. I think it was TB that was the main problem - but I'm not sure.
People who drink fresh milk (straight out of the cow) dont seem to have any
health problems nowadays - maybe the cows are healthier.

They probably are somewhat healthier, but drinking raw milk is still
asking for trouble over the long term, and I remain unocnvinced that
there is *any* health benefit to it.

Quoted message said:

When they pickup milk at the farms in Australia they take samples from each
farm and have that tested for known antibiotics - but with de-regulation I
wonder if a quality control manager would have the balls to dump a million
litres if he found something rotten after the bad load had been mixed into
the vats.

In the US, I think the penalties for not dumping it might be severe
enough to encourage compliance, though I see your point.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Not pastuerized = dangerous
Pastuerized = dangerous

"Roger Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'd say that pasturisation is still needed - maybe people forget that
untreated milk was a common cause of disease back in the 1940s and even

upto

Quoted message said:

the 50s. I think it was TB that was the main problem - but I'm not sure.
People who drink fresh milk (straight out of the cow) dont seem to have

any

Quoted message said:

health problems nowadays - maybe the cows are healthier.

When they pickup milk at the farms in Australia they take samples from

each

Quoted message said:

farm and have that tested for known antibiotics - but with de-regulation I
wonder if a quality control manager would have the balls to dump a million
litres if he found something rotten after the bad load had been mixed into
the vats.

try www.notmilk.com
interesting

David Wright <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Roger Martin said:

I'd say that pasturisation is still needed - maybe people forget that
untreated milk was a common cause of disease back in the 1940s and even

upto

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the 50s. I think it was TB that was the main problem - but I'm not sure.
People who drink fresh milk (straight out of the cow) dont seem to have

any

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

health problems nowadays - maybe the cows are healthier.

They probably are somewhat healthier, but drinking raw milk is still
asking for trouble over the long term, and I remain unocnvinced that
there is *any* health benefit to it.

Quoted message said:

When they pickup milk at the farms in Australia they take samples from

each

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

farm and have that tested for known antibiotics - but with de-regulation

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wonder if a quality control manager would have the balls to dump a

million

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

litres if he found something rotten after the bad load had been mixed

into

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the vats.

In the US, I think the penalties for not dumping it might be severe
enough to encourage compliance, though I see your point.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Gymmy Bob <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not pastuerized = dangerous
Pastuerized = dangerous

don't forget the pus level content......

Quoted message said:

"Roger Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'd say that pasturisation is still needed - maybe people forget that
untreated milk was a common cause of disease back in the 1940s and even

upto

Quoted message said:

the 50s. I think it was TB that was the main problem - but I'm not sure.
People who drink fresh milk (straight out of the cow) dont seem to have

any

Quoted message said:

health problems nowadays - maybe the cows are healthier.

When they pickup milk at the farms in Australia they take samples from

each

Quoted message said:

farm and have that tested for known antibiotics - but with de-regulation

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wonder if a quality control manager would have the balls to dump a

million

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

litres if he found something rotten after the bad load had been mixed

into

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the vats.