Wheelbuilder's advice needed

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Ivar Hesselager
My newbuild backwheel on my sparkling new bike has the
pulling spokes going from the inside of the flange. Is
this OK - or did the mechanic simply do a poor job
building the wheel? I bought Ultegera hubs and Mavic CPX
33 rims with 36 spokes. I went into great detail to get a
bike with all the selected parts that will suit my longer
randonneur rides - but I forgot to be specific about how I
wanted the wheel built.

I have always considered it a basic rule to have the pulling
spokes on the outside. Pulling spokes do the hardest job,
and I think they should benefit from the greater angle in
the dishing of the wheel, that lies on the outside of the
flange. And the pulling spokes also should benefit from the
larger contact area with the flange that is on the outside
of the flange.

The result of having the pulling spokes on the inside is a
much sharper bend where the pulling spoke crosses the
staying spoke in the 3X lacing. I have mingled a bit with
wheelbuilding in my younger days, and the way I undertand
the mechanism of the spokes, the greater tension between the
crossing spokes, will make my wheel a lot more flexible in
the lateral direction than I need it - and it will be too
flexible ind the sideways direction. It will also create a
greater risc of broken spokes, I expect. (So far I have only
had one longer 100 km ride on the shiny new bike, and I
can't say that the flexible wheel actually bothered me. But
I am concerned that it will - under differant circumstances.

I am an wheel builder amateur, and I like to respect the
professionals. So before I go back to the shop to complain
of their incompetence, I could use some global expert
wheelbuilder's advice! Could there be a good reason for
placing the pulling spokes on the inside of the flange?

And if there is a fairly good reason for doing it, (making
me refrain form complaining) wouldn't it be even better for
me to rebuild the wheel, the way I think it shold be: Less
flexible and with pulling spokes on the outside? (I have
taken "long distance comfort" into consideration by choosing
a 25 mm tire on the back wheel.)

Also the mechanic has put plain 2 mm spokes on the wheels -
I didn't specify what kind of spokes I wanted, but I
exepcted that buttet spokes 2,0/1,8 would be a standard
spoke for a bike in the 2,600 Euro class.

Should the butted spokes be considered not only lighter but
also better than plain spokes? I rarely see plain spokes on
the better bikes - and I would not think that my 190
pounds(86 kg) calls for heavy duty spokes.

So if I rebuild the wheel, wouldn't it make sense to put in
the butted spokes? I would certainly appreciate some
wheelbuilder expert advice.

Kindly Ivar of Denmark

The spoking pattern used is fine.
I would rather have double butted spokes to.
If you rebuild to use double butted spokes, stay with the existing pattern to prevent damage to the hub.
I don't understand some of your terminology about " much sharper bends".
Spoke tension balance for all spokes on the same side of the rear wheel is important. Spoke alignment and stress relieving is also very important.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ivar Hesselager said:

My newbuild backwheel on my sparkling new bike has the
pulling spokes going from the inside of the flange. Is
this OK - or did the mechanic simply do a poor job
building the wheel?

It doesn't matter enough to change anything. If the wheel
is straight, tight, and properly stress-relieved it will
work fine.

Ivar Hesselager said:

My newbuild backwheel on my sparkling new bike has the
pulling spokes going from the inside of the flange. Is
this OK - or did the mechanic simply do a poor job
building the wheel?

Doesn't matter, or at least not enough to worry about. I've
been building wheels for 25 years with the pulling spokes
head-out or elbows-in, whichever you prefer to call it.
Never a problem with it.

Quoted message said:

Should the butted spokes be considered not only lighter
but also better than plain spokes? I rarely see plain
spokes on the better bikes - and I would not think that my
190 pounds(86 kg) calls for heavy duty spokes.

Butted spokes make for a more durable wheel and lower
likelihood of spoke breakage. IMHO a nearly US $3000 bike
ought to come with butted spokes.

Hesselager said:

My newbuild backwheel on my sparkling new bike has the
pulling spokes going from the inside of the flange.

Not sure how it is in Danish, but in English the term
"pulling spokes" is out of favor, since, actually, _all_ of
the spokes pull.

Assuming you're speaking of the spokes that point
counterclockwise as they leave the rim, when viewed from the
right side, the preferred term is "trailing spokes" (as
opposed to the "leading spokes" that point in the direction
of rotation.

Quoted message said:

Is this OK - or did the mechanic simply do a poor job
building the wheel?

This is the generally preferred way to build a wheel for use
with derailer gearing. A majority of good wheel builders do
it this way, though a sizable minority of other good wheel
builders do it the other way.

Basically, it doesn't matter in 99.999% of cases, and says
nothing about the quality of the wheel building job.

I address this issue in more detail at:

sheldonbrown.comwheelbuild.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Also the mechanic has put plain 2 mm spokes on the wheels
- I didn't specify what kind of spokes I wanted, but I
exepcted that buttet spokes 2,0/1,8 would be a standard
spoke for a bike in the 2,600 Euro class.

I would agree, butted spokes would have been better, they're
not that much more expensive.

Quoted message said:

Should the butted spokes be considered not only lighter
but also better than plain spokes?

That's correct.

I rarely see plain spokes on the better bikes - and I would

Quoted message said:

not think that my 190 pounds(86 kg) calls for heavy
duty spokes.

Butted spokes _are_ heavy-duty spokes. Straight gauge spokes
are just cheaper, and slightly easier to build with.

Quoted message said:

So if I rebuild the wheel, wouldn't it make sense to put
in the butted spokes?

Yes, but I wouldn't think there was any cause to rebuild it
on the basis of the information you've supplied.

Sheldon "But...But..." Brown +-----------------------------------------------
+
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| they sped. | I was disturbed at this; | I accosted
| the man. |
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| "It is futile," I said, | "You can never--" |
| |
| "You lie," he cried, | And ran on. | --Stephen
| Crane |
+-----------------------------------------------+ Harris
Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772 FAX
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ivar-<< My newbuild backwheel on my sparkling new bike has
the pulling spokes going from the inside of the flange. Is
this OK - or did the mechanic simply do a poor job building
the wheel? >><BR><BR>

It really makes little difference as long as the wheel was
built well. I have built wheels both ways and it really
doesn't matter-

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Thank you for the expert advice - I am much relieved. I have
my english vocabulary - and my basic knowledge - on the
subject of wheelbuilding from Robert Wright: "Building
Bicycle Wheels" some twenty years ago. In spite of the
unclear terminology you read me right - and I will remember
to compliment the mechanic for the fine wheel he build for
me - exept for the choise of spokes. Thank you Comrades of
the Wheel! Ivar