Wheelbuilder's advice needed

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ivar Hesselager said:

My newbuild backwheel on my sparkling new bike has the pulling spokes going
from the inside of the flange. Is this OK - or did the mechanic simply do a
poor job building the wheel?

It doesn't matter enough to change anything. If the wheel is straight,
tight, and properly stress-relieved it will work fine.

Ivar Hesselager said:

My newbuild backwheel on my sparkling new bike has the pulling spokes
going from the inside of the flange. Is this OK - or did the mechanic
simply do a poor job building the wheel? I bought Ultegera hubs and
Mavic CPX 33 rims with 36 spokes. I went into great detail to get a bike
with all the selected parts that will suit my longer randonneur rides -
but I forgot to be specific about how I wanted the wheel built.
I have always considered it a basic rule to have the pulling spokes on
the outside. Pulling spokes do the hardest job, and I think they should
benefit from the greater angle in the dishing of the wheel, that lies on
the outside of the flange. And the pulling spokes also should benefit
from the larger contact area with the flange that is on the outside of
the flange.
The result of having the pulling spokes on the inside is a much sharper
bend where the pulling spoke crosses the staying spoke in the 3X lacing.
I have mingled a bit with wheelbuilding in my younger days, and the way
I undertand the mechanism of the spokes, the greater tension between the
crossing spokes, will make my wheel a lot more flexible in the lateral
direction than I need it - and it will be too flexible ind the sideways
direction. It will also create a greater risc of broken spokes, I
expect. (So far I have only had one longer 100 km ride on the shiny new
bike, and I can't say that the flexible wheel actually bothered me. But
I am concerned that it will - under differant circumstances.
I am an wheel builder amateur, and I like to respect the professionals.
So before I go back to the shop to complain of their incompetence, I
could use some global expert wheelbuilder's advice! Could there be a
good reason for placing the pulling spokes on the inside of the flange?
And if there is a fairly good reason for doing it, (making me refrain
form complaining) wouldn't it be even better for me to rebuild the
wheel, the way I think it shold be: Less flexible and with pulling
spokes on the outside? (I have taken "long distance comfort" into
consideration by choosing a 25 mm tire on the back wheel.)
Also the mechanic has put plain 2 mm spokes on the wheels - I didn't
specify what kind of spokes I wanted, but I exepcted that buttet spokes
2,0/1,8 would be a standard spoke for a bike in the 2,600 Euro class.
Should the butted spokes be considered not only lighter but also better
than plain spokes? I rarely see plain spokes on the better bikes - and I
would not think that my 190 pounds(86 kg) calls for heavy duty spokes.
So if I rebuild the wheel, wouldn't it make sense to put in the butted
spokes? I would certainly appreciate some wheelbuilder expert advice.
Kindly Ivar of Denmark

The spoking pattern used is fine. I would rather have double butted
spokes to. If you rebuild to use double butted spokes, stay with the
existing pattern to prevent damage to the hub. I don't understand some
of your terminology about " much sharper bends". Spoke tension balance
for all spokes on the same side of the rear wheel is important. Spoke
alignment and stress relieving is also very important.

--

Ivar Hesselager said:

My newbuild backwheel on my sparkling new bike has the pulling
spokes going from the inside of the flange. Is this OK - or did the
mechanic simply do a poor job building the wheel?

Doesn't matter, or at least not enough to worry about. I've been
building wheels for 25 years with the pulling spokes head-out or
elbows-in, whichever you prefer to call it. Never a problem with it.

Quoted message said:

Should the butted spokes be considered not only lighter but also
better than plain spokes? I rarely see plain spokes on the better
bikes - and I would not think that my 190 pounds(86 kg) calls for
heavy duty spokes.

Butted spokes make for a more durable wheel and lower likelihood of
spoke breakage. IMHO a nearly US $3000 bike ought to come with butted
spokes.

Hesselager said:

My newbuild backwheel on my sparkling new bike has the pulling spokes going
from the inside of the flange.

Not sure how it is in Danish, but in English the term "pulling spokes"
is out of favor, since, actually, _all_ of the spokes pull.

Assuming you're speaking of the spokes that point counterclockwise as
they leave the rim, when viewed from the right side, the preferred term
is "trailing spokes" (as opposed to the "leading spokes" that point in
the direction of rotation.

Quoted message said:

Is this OK - or did the mechanic simply do a
poor job building the wheel?

This is the generally preferred way to build a wheel for use with
derailer gearing. A majority of good wheel builders do it this way,
though a sizable minority of other good wheel builders do it the other way.

Basically, it doesn't matter in 99.999% of cases, and says nothing about
the quality of the wheel building job.

I address this issue in more detail at:

http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#side

Quoted message said:

Also the mechanic has put plain 2 mm spokes on the wheels - I didn't specify
what kind of spokes I wanted, but I exepcted that buttet spokes 2,0/1,8
would be a standard spoke for a bike in the 2,600 Euro class.

I would agree, butted spokes would have been better, they're not that
much more expensive.

Quoted message said:

Should the butted spokes be considered not only lighter but also better than
plain spokes?

That's correct.

I rarely see plain spokes on the better bikes - and I would

Quoted message said:

not think that my 190 pounds(86 kg) calls for heavy duty spokes.

Butted spokes _are_ heavy-duty spokes. Straight gauge spokes are just
cheaper, and slightly easier to build with.

Quoted message said:

So if I rebuild the wheel, wouldn't it make sense to put in the butted
spokes?

Yes, but I wouldn't think there was any cause to rebuild it on the basis
of the information you've supplied.

Sheldon "But...But..." Brown
+-----------------------------------------------+
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| Round and round they sped. |
| I was disturbed at this; |
| I accosted the man. |
| |
| "It is futile," I said, |
| "You can never--" |
| |
| "You lie," he cried, |
| And ran on. |
| --Stephen Crane |
+-----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

ivar-<< My newbuild backwheel on my sparkling new bike has the pulling spokes
going
from the inside of the flange. Is this OK - or did the mechanic simply do a
poor job building the wheel? >><BR><BR>

It really makes little difference as long as the wheel was built well. I have
built wheels both ways and it really doesn't matter-

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Thank you for the expert advice - I am much relieved.
I have my english vocabulary - and my basic knowledge - on the subject of
wheelbuilding from Robert Wright: "Building Bicycle Wheels" some twenty
years ago. In spite of the unclear terminology you read me right - and I
will remember to compliment the mechanic for the fine wheel he build for
me - exept for the choise of spokes.
Thank you Comrades of the Wheel!
Ivar