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Wheel Un-building...

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
27 June 2005
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28 June 2005
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recycled
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  1. Had a go at unbuilding my broken rim from the hub and spokes, but it
    seems that any attempt to twist the brass flat-headed part while the
    spoke is engaged by a wrench results in the brass shearing off before
    enough torque can be applied to loosen it at all. Is this because the
    wheel was built by a machine? Still, I can hardly believe how weak these
    brass peices are. How am I supposed to be able to re-use the spokes if
    they seem to be cemented into the nipples???
    The way things are going it seems like i'll have to cut them in half to
    get them off the hub... :-( Anyone ever done this before?

    --
    recycled - Muni Novice

    Nimbus Muni 24x3
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  2. recycled said:

    *Had a go at unbuilding my broken rim from the hub and spokes, but it
    seems that any attempt to twist the brass flat-headed part while the
    spoke is engaged by a wrench results in the brass shearing off before
    enough torque can be applied to loosen it at all. Is this because the
    wheel was built by a machine? Still, I can hardly believe how weak
    these brass peices are. How am I supposed to be able to re-use the
    spokes if they seem to be cemented into the nipples???
    The way things are going it seems like i'll have to cut them in half
    to get them off the hub... :-( Anyone ever done this before? *


    Often the nipples on low- to medium-quality wheels will distort like
    that. Often they are installed with a liquid locker which makes it easy
    to put them on, but difficult to adjust them later on.

    In general, you shouldn't expect to re-use spokes except when replacing
    a rim with the identical rim, which happens to be your case. However,
    without high-quality components to start with, you do best to just cut
    them off and buy a new set. Be sure to unwind them as best as possible
    beforehand to avoid injury, and wear hand and eye protection.

    Post-build maintenance is one place that high-quality wheels really
    shine, and demonstrate the owner's investment wisdom.

    --
    U-Turn - As long as my feet keep movin'...

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
    'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
    '29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
    'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
    -- Dave Stockton
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  3. try adding a screw driver to the slot in the back of the nipple and then
    twisting with a spoke wrench. maybe a squirt of wd-40 a few minutes
    before would help too.

    --
    markf - movie nerd

    stuck in iowa and unemployed.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  4. Remove the tire,tube ,and rim strip and apply a drop of reg. or
    penetrating oil on each nipple.Sometimes tightening slightly first will
    break the seal and allow you untighten something, ask any plumber!

    --
    cheech
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  5. What do you mean, engaging the spokes with a wrench? You can't
    physically hold the spokes, a spoke wrench engages with the nipples,
    same as a nipple screwdriver. All you need to do is take off the rim
    tape, and unscrew the nipples from the rim side. You shouldn't need to
    hold the spokes in any way. Also WD40 might help, but if you want to re
    use the spokes make sure its all cleared off, or the spokes will loosen
    as you use them.

    Loose.

    --
    Loosemoose - HA! Sod You Gilby, I HAVE DAMMIT!

    Dave: "I had a particularly bad UPD & found I'd lost a shoe"
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  6. Well yeah, that's what I meant by the 'spoke' not 100% on the
    terminology :-) The problem is in that the brass part on the tire side
    and the squarish 'nipple' or whatever you call it on the spoke side all
    seem to have become as one, and that they can't be undone, almost like
    they were loctited or something :-( I guess since this is the case, I
    can rebuild with really cool black colored spokes this time...

    --
    recycled - Muni Novice

    Nimbus Muni 24x3
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  7. a derrr. it seems like it's one peice because it IS. HAHA.

    i'm such a deuschebag.

    The spokes are actually quite free to move... 😄

    --
    recycled - Muni Novice

    Nimbus Muni 24x3
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  8. U-Turn said:

    *Post-build maintenance is one place that high-quality wheels really
    shine, and demonstrate the owner's investment wisdom. *

    Since when does one have to "invest" to get a high-quality wheel? All
    it takes is a little research, some patience and a bit of elbow grease
    and one has the capability to make their own wheel that'll stand up to
    the rigors of heavy usage while still being fully maintainable. I get
    the impression that you're trying to mislead novice riders into
    believing they need to spend money in order to have decent equipment.
    Bad U-Spurn, bad!!!

    --
    maestro8 - Mad Scientists for World Domination

    Those are my principles. If you don't like those, I have others. --
    Groucho Marx
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  9. well there's something to be said for being able to build/maintain your
    own wheels. my wheel buliding friend can build/tension a wheel in about
    an hour if there are no snags. every single spoke ends with the exact
    same tension and "pings" the same note when plucked. doing that one your
    first wheel build without a tension meter, particularly on a larger
    wheel, would be very hard. not that it isn't a useful skill to learn,
    but it's also one the hardest mechanical skills to learn. i still don't
    feel 100% comfortable building a wheel from scratch. i can replace
    spokes and true things up on an size wheel and do a good job with it,
    but the building from parts is still a little hard/time consuming/i need
    to learn it/maddening at this point. maybe my next wheel.

    --
    markf - movie nerd

    stuck in iowa and unemployed.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  10. maestro8 said:

    *Since when does one have to "invest" to get a high-quality wheel?
    All it takes is a little research, some patience and a bit of elbow
    grease and one has the capability to make their own wheel that'll
    stand up to the rigors of heavy usage while still being fully
    maintainable. I get the impression that you're trying to mislead
    novice riders into believing they need to spend money in order to have
    decent equipment. Bad U-Spurn, bad!!! *


    I'm sorry that you have that impression, maestro8, but that is not the
    case. I've reworked a number of brand-new brand-name "off-road"
    unicycle wheels that have come way out of true after just two weeks of
    riding.

    Recycled stated that he could not "believe how weak" his wheel parts
    were, and I can confirm that from experience. By describing the
    difference that a high-quality wheel makes, I am attempting to place
    Recycled's experience in perspective and answer his question.

    Often for a wheel like that, even attempting to true it will result in
    several stripped nipples and the need to replace them. The customer has
    to pay for that extra time and hardware. In most cases, as well, there
    are low limits on the wheel strength and trueness that spring from the
    low quality of the wheel's components.

    Perhaps my standards are higher, but yes, it is necessary to spend money
    to have decent equipment. Each rider/owner has economic and performance
    tradeoffs to make, including me. I have a low-to-medium-quality Trek
    mountain bike, and that is plenty for me.

    For some riders, spending $500 on a wheel is a wise decision. For
    others, spending $500 on a unicycle is a wise decision. In all cases,
    people have to spend money for equipment. The actual price/performance
    tradeoffs are different for each rider. An active rider who is spending
    lots of travel money to go to uni events is wise to invest in good
    equipment, because it results in less downtime and better use of that
    travel money. A novice rider who is unsure of his or her commitment to
    the sport might do better with less expensive "exploratory" gear,
    however often the best approach in that case is to attend a club and
    borrow unis as much as possible until that person's choices narrow. A
    rapidly advancing rider who is riding hard and breaking gear might do
    well to look ahead and put a little more into better gear.

    As far as "trying to mislead", that is patently not true. Many of my
    customers will attest to my tendency to try to talk them down, rather
    than up in price, and my forthrightness about the "bang for buck" that
    each decision they make gives.

    Anyhow, Recycled, good luck with your rebuild, and good riding!

    --
    U-Turn - As long as my feet keep movin'...

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
    'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
    '29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
    'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
    -- Dave Stockton
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/41444

  11. maestro8 said:

    *Since when does one have to "invest" to get a high-quality wheel?
    All it takes is a little research, some patience and a bit of elbow
    grease and one has the capability to make their own wheel that'll
    stand up to the rigors of heavy usage while still being fully
    maintainable. I get the impression that you're trying to mislead
    novice riders into believing they need to spend money in order to have
    decent equipment. Bad U-Spurn, bad!!! *


    I'm sorry that you have that impression, maestro8, but that is not the
    case. I've reworked a number of brand-new brand-name "off-road"
    unicycle wheels that have come way out of true after just two weeks of
    riding.

    Recycled stated that he could not "believe how weak" his wheel parts
    were, and I can confirm that from experience. By describing the
    difference that a high-quality wheel makes, I am attempting to place
    Recycled's experience in perspective and answer his question.

    Often for a wheel like that, even attempting to true it will result in
    several stripped nipples and the need to replace them. The customer has
    to pay for that extra time and hardware. In most cases, as well, there
    are low limits on the wheel strength and trueness that spring from the
    low quality of the wheel's components.

    Perhaps my standards are higher, but yes, it is necessary to spend money
    to have decent equipment. Each rider/owner has economic and performance
    tradeoffs to make, including me. I have a low-to-medium-quality Trek
    mountain bike, and that is plenty for me.

    For some riders, spending $500 on a wheel is a wise decision. For
    others, spending $500 on a unicycle is a wise decision. In all cases,
    people have to spend money for equipment. The actual price/performance
    tradeoffs are different for each rider. An active rider who is spending
    lots of travel money to go to uni events is wise to invest in good
    equipment, because it results in less downtime and better use of that
    travel money. A novice rider who is unsure of his or her commitment to
    the sport might do better with less expensive "exploratory" gear,
    however often the best approach in that case is to attend a club and
    borrow unis as much as possible until that person's choices narrow. A
    rapidly advancing rider who is riding hard and breaking gear might do
    well to look ahead and put a little more into better gear.

    As far as "trying to mislead", that is patently not true. Many of my
    customers will attest to my tendency to try to talk them down, rather
    than up in price, and my forthrightness about the "bang for buck" that
    each decision they make gives.

    Anyhow, Recycled, good luck with your rebuild, and good riding!

    --
    U-Turn - As long as my feet keep movin'...

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
    'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
    '29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
    'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
    -- Dave Stockton
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    U-Turn's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/691
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/41444

  12. recycled said:


    The problem is in that the brass part on the tire side
    and the squarish 'nipple' or whatever you call it on the spoke side all
    seem to have become as one,

    Not sure what you're describing here, but they ARE one - it's a
    single piece. It screws off teh spoke. You can either turn teh
    square part or put a flat balded screwdriver on teh part inside the
    rim (with the tyre off).

    regards., Ian SMith
    --
    |\ /| no .sig
    |o o|
    |/ \|

  13. U-Turn said:

    *Perhaps my standards are higher, but yes, it is necessary to spend
    money to have decent equipment.
    ...
    An active rider who is spending lots of travel money to go to uni
    events is wise to invest in good equipment
    ...
    A rapidly advancing rider who is riding hard and breaking gear might
    do well to look ahead and put a little more into better gear.
    *

    I see no mention of "active" or "advancing" riders spending _time_ as
    opposed to _money_ into bettering their setup. If someone is really
    "into the sport," I believe they should also be into maintaining their
    own gear, including spending some time learning / practicing wheel
    builds. Especially if they'll be subjecting their gear to long, hard
    rides, or travelling far from home, or buying pre-assembled gear from a
    questionable source.

    Granted, throwing money at a problem can, in some cases, ensure it's
    done well, but it leaves one right where they started... clueless as to
    the actual process. The best way, IMHO, to be prepared for trail-side
    emergencies is to know your ride inside-out, to have built it (or parts
    of it) yourself. You can't just "throw money" at the problem when your
    on the trail! And no matter how well something is built, you can't
    guarantee it won't break.

    Look at unicycling's top rider... Kris Holm... he doesn't just push the
    sport forward through his riding, he's also working to design and
    manufacture better equipment! Another good example is Gerblefranklin...
    a superb trials and muni rider who is currently prototyping his own
    trials frames... this sport needs more people who aren't afraid to work
    on their own equipment, because we can't depend on a handful of
    manufacturers / technicians to put together all the gear we'll need as
    this sport progresses!

    Instead of using your clout to encourage people to spend money, why not
    encourage people to build their own rig? Why not put some energy into a
    guide for aspiring wheelbuilders, a'la Sheldon Brown?

    --
    maestro8 - Mad Scientists for World Domination

    Those are my principles. If you don't like those, I have others. --
    Groucho Marx
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  14. maestro8 said:

    *I see no mention of "active" or "advancing" riders spending _time_ as
    opposed to _money_ into bettering their setup. If someone is really
    "into the sport," I believe they should also be into maintaining their
    own gear, including spending some time learning / practicing wheel
    builds. Especially if they'll be subjecting their gear to long, hard
    rides, or travelling far from home, or buying pre-assembled gear from
    a questionable source.

    Granted, throwing money at a problem can, in some cases, ensure it's
    done well, but it leaves one right where they started... clueless as
    to the actual process. The best way, IMHO, to be prepared for
    trail-side emergencies is to know your ride inside-out, to have built
    it (or parts of it) yourself. You can't just "throw money" at the
    problem when your on the trail! And no matter how well something is
    built, you can't guarantee it won't break.

    Look at unicycling's top rider... Kris Holm... he doesn't just push
    the sport forward through his riding, he's also working to design and
    manufacture better equipment! Another good example is
    Gerblefranklin... a superb trials and muni rider who is currently
    prototyping his own trials frames... this sport needs more people who
    aren't afraid to work on their own equipment, because we can't depend
    on a handful of manufacturers / technicians to put together all the
    gear we'll need as this sport progresses!

    Instead of using your clout to encourage people to spend money, why
    not encourage people to build their own rig? Why not put some energy
    into a guide for aspiring wheelbuilders, a'la Sheldon Brown? *


    Hmm... I don't see anywhere that I have "encouraged people to spend
    money". I have simply said that price/performance tradeoffs are
    individual decisions. And I certainly have not said that people should
    throw money at problems.

    I agree with you that many people that want to become serious riders
    would do well to learn how to service their own gear. This will save
    them time and money. By doing this, too, they will come to know and
    appreciate the difference between good gear and bad gear.

    I also agree with several riders who recently have said that the main
    thing is the rider, not the gear. Look at Lars Clausen, who recently
    did something like 9000 miles on a stock Coker wheel. No matter what
    gear you have, it will eventually all come down to your desire to
    succeed, your willingness to suffer pain, and your willingness to put in
    the preparation time and training. The same goes for the 24/26 or
    29/36 debates, crank length and such.

    Many good riders who service their own gear, and even do their own
    research into new unicycle technology, buy from me. I'm very glad for
    their business and the opportunity to share, in some way, in their
    adventures. As far as Sheldon Brown goes, I highly encourage people to
    visit his extensive webpages and learn all they can from them... I
    certainly do! And John Childs does an amazing job here with advice on
    lots of technical issues. I really admire his clear writing style.

    I try to offer the highest quality product available, and I charge less
    than I should for it. I also try hard not to step on other
    manufacturers' toes. It's not much more complicated than that.

    I'm wondering what your contribution will be to unicycling, maestro8. I
    look forward to seeing what it will be! However, I do know that you
    won't be able to make that contribution while you are focused on me, or
    Tyler, or anyone else. Dig deep in yourself and find it; it'll be
    something great.

    --
    U-Turn - As long as my feet keep movin'...

    Weep in the dojo... laugh on the battlefield.
    'LiveWire Unicycles' (http://www.livewireunicycles.com)
    'Strongest Coker Wheel in the World'
    (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albup39)
    '29er Tire Study' (http://u-turn.unicyclist.com/29erTireStudy/)
    'New York Unicycle Club' (http://www.newyorkunicycle.com)
    -- Dave Stockton
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    U-Turn's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/691
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/41444

  15. U-Turn said:

    *Dig deep in yourself and find it; it'll be something great. *

    After a period of deep self-introspection, I farted. I found gas.

    --
    maestro8 - Mad Scientists for World Domination

    Those are my principles. If you don't like those, I have others. --
    Groucho Marx
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/41444

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