Wheel sizes for P38

[Tom Sherman]

Ben Fox wrote:
> ... Ben Fox [look Tom S., I capitalized my last name!]

Ben,

Congratulations on finding the shift key.

There is a bike that is faster than the Haluzak Leprechaun and Lightning P-38 that will fit short
riders, but I will not mention it because it is out of production and practically unavailable. And
mine is not for sale.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

[Tom Sherman]

Don wrote:
>
> Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be 1/2
> inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. So it would seem it moot but very
> frustrating when I am so close. I still will not be satsified until I can try a medium. They
> would not tell me what the limiting factor is. Is it boom length? Booms can be cut. Haluzak cut
> the internal pipe on my boom to fit me. Lightning also did not answer any of the other questions
> I asked.
>
> Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have muscular
> calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement position. I was not
> sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the internet.
>
> Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended? The suspended was
> almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me. After noticing that
> Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out. They are a stupid design.
> There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the seat. That is just plain mean. I
> also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some riders love the Bachetta's
> handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the Haluzak and
> Lightning designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not significantly affected.
>
> Frustrated but I have not given up yet.

Some points:

Because of the triangulated design of the P-38's boom, it does not appear that it could be shortened
much, if at all.

5 and 3/10 inches is rather short.

It is possible to design a SWB bike that fits short riders well, e.g. Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer
[TM]. The telescoping frame and boom allows optimal weight distribution for a large range of
x-seam lengths.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

[Tom Sherman]

Ben Fox wrote:
> ... Ben Fox [look Tom S., I capitalized my last name!]

Ben,

Congratulations on finding the shift key.

There is a bike that is faster than the Haluzak Leprechaun and Lightning P-38 that will fit short
riders, but I will not mention it because it is out of production and practically unavailable. And
mine is not for sale.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

[Tom Sherman]

Don wrote:
>
> Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be 1/2
> inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. So it would seem it moot but very
> frustrating when I am so close. I still will not be satsified until I can try a medium. They
> would not tell me what the limiting factor is. Is it boom length? Booms can be cut. Haluzak cut
> the internal pipe on my boom to fit me. Lightning also did not answer any of the other questions
> I asked.
>
> Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have muscular
> calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement position. I was not
> sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the internet.
>
> Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended? The suspended was
> almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me. After noticing that
> Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out. They are a stupid design.
> There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the seat. That is just plain mean. I
> also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some riders love the Bachetta's
> handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the Haluzak and
> Lightning designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not significantly affected.
>
> Frustrated but I have not given up yet.

Some points:

Because of the triangulated design of the P-38's boom, it does not appear that it could be shortened
much, if at all.

5 and 3/10 inches is rather short.

It is possible to design a SWB bike that fits short riders well, e.g. Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer
[TM]. The telescoping frame and boom allows optimal weight distribution for a large range of
x-seam lengths.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

[Tom Sherman]

Robert Siegel wrote:
>
> For whatever reason, it takes most riders 30 days or so to get up to maximum speed on a P-38. A
> lot of riders find it surprisingly slow on their first few rides.
>
> Also, it helps a LOT to be dialed into a P-38 ... setting it up to fit your body is VERY
> important IMHO.

I did not find riding a P-38 to be that much different from other SWB bikes. When I was moving, it
was not convenient for me to bring one of my own bikes to a ride, so I rode a metric century on a
borrowed XL P-38 with a XL F-40 boom. Since the boom would not go in far enough for my x-seam
length, I had two small Therm-a-Rest pads held against the seatback with an Ace bandage to
compensate. My performance was not noticeably different from that on my RANS Rocket.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

[Ben Fox]

Yeah Tom, but you have the only one and won't sell it! If the price was right you'd sell it! Ben fox
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Don wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be 1/2
> > inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. So it would seem it moot but very
> > frustrating when I am so close. I still will not be satsified until I can try a medium. They
> > would not tell me what the limiting factor is. Is it boom length? Booms can be cut. Haluzak cut
> > the internal pipe on my boom to fit me. Lightning also did not answer any of the other questions
> > I asked.
> >
> > Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have muscular
> > calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement position. I was
> > not sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the internet.
> >
> > Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended? The suspended was
> > almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me. After noticing that
> > Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out. They are a stupid
> > design. There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the seat. That is just plain
> > mean. I also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some riders love the
> > Bachetta's handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the
> > Haluzak and Lightning designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not
> > significantly affected.
> >
> > Frustrated but I have not given up yet.
>
> Some points:
>
> Because of the triangulated design of the P-38's boom, it does not appear that it could be
> shortened much, if at all.
>
> 5 and 3/10 inches is rather short.
>
> It is possible to design a SWB bike that fits short riders well, e.g. Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer
> [TM]. The telescoping frame and boom allows optimal weight distribution for a large range of
> x-seam lengths.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
> Dragonflyer

 

[Tom Sherman]

Robert Siegel wrote:
>
> For whatever reason, it takes most riders 30 days or so to get up to maximum speed on a P-38. A
> lot of riders find it surprisingly slow on their first few rides.
>
> Also, it helps a LOT to be dialed into a P-38 ... setting it up to fit your body is VERY
> important IMHO.

I did not find riding a P-38 to be that much different from other SWB bikes. When I was moving, it
was not convenient for me to bring one of my own bikes to a ride, so I rode a metric century on a
borrowed XL P-38 with a XL F-40 boom. Since the boom would not go in far enough for my x-seam
length, I had two small Therm-a-Rest pads held against the seatback with an Ace bandage to
compensate. My performance was not noticeably different from that on my RANS Rocket.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

[Ben Fox]

Yeah Tom, but you have the only one and won't sell it! If the price was right you'd sell it! Ben fox
"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Don wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be 1/2
> > inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. So it would seem it moot but very
> > frustrating when I am so close. I still will not be satsified until I can try a medium. They
> > would not tell me what the limiting factor is. Is it boom length? Booms can be cut. Haluzak cut
> > the internal pipe on my boom to fit me. Lightning also did not answer any of the other questions
> > I asked.
> >
> > Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have muscular
> > calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement position. I was
> > not sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the internet.
> >
> > Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended? The suspended was
> > almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me. After noticing that
> > Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out. They are a stupid
> > design. There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the seat. That is just plain
> > mean. I also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some riders love the
> > Bachetta's handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the
> > Haluzak and Lightning designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not
> > significantly affected.
> >
> > Frustrated but I have not given up yet.
>
> Some points:
>
> Because of the triangulated design of the P-38's boom, it does not appear that it could be
> shortened much, if at all.
>
> 5 and 3/10 inches is rather short.
>
> It is possible to design a SWB bike that fits short riders well, e.g. Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer
> [TM]. The telescoping frame and boom allows optimal weight distribution for a large range of
> x-seam lengths.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
> Dragonflyer

 

[Jeff Wills]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> It is possible to design a SWB bike that fits short riders well, e.g. Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer
> [TM]. The telescoping frame and boom allows optimal weight distribution for a large range of
> x-seam lengths.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
> Dragonflyer

The Terracycle Terra-Za has a telescoping boom and a moveable RANS seat. Dunno if it fits short
people (I've got to find the RCN review), but it worked great for me- but I'm 6-foot-4.

Jeff

 

[Jeff Wills]

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> It is possible to design a SWB bike that fits short riders well, e.g. Earth Cycles Sunset Lowracer
> [TM]. The telescoping frame and boom allows optimal weight distribution for a large range of
> x-seam lengths.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
> Dragonflyer

The Terracycle Terra-Za has a telescoping boom and a moveable RANS seat. Dunno if it fits short
people (I've got to find the RCN review), but it worked great for me- but I'm 6-foot-4.

Jeff

 

[Ben Fox]

One bike that i can think of that the seat moves lower to the ground as it moves forward is a LWB
Rans stratus. Ben Fox

"Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> You vertically challenged guys are in deep doo doo when you get older. I used to be a shade under
> 6 feet ... and now I'm just under 5'10. That's because the human spine compresses over the course
> of 74 years . The good news is my X-seam is still 42.5 .... it's disproportionate to my height
> because my legs did not compress. I ride a M-L GRR (Ti Rush).
>
> Also, you just might be pleasantly surprised that a small P-38 will fit
you
> OK with a bit of tweaking... just my hunch. - Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Cletus D. Lee"
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, dizone1 @lycos.com says...
> > > Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be
> > > 1/2 inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. ... Lightning also did not
> > > answer any of the other questions I asked.
> > Call Tim. He is very responsive and the most helpful of any one that you
> can
> > speak with at LCD.
> >
> > >
> > > Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have
> > > muscular calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement
> > > position. I was not sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the
> > > internet.
> >
> > You are a short sh*t Aren't you? I'd like to keep you around just so the
> rest
> > of us can feel tall. ;-)
> > >
> > > Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended?
> >
> > About 2" inches. Lowering the front wheel will not have that much effect
> on
> > the seat height. I can measure my seat/ground height on both the Voyager and the Giro.
> Putting
> > a 349 on the Med P-38 will not change the seat height by more than a an
> inch.
> >
> > > The suspended was almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me.
> > > After noticing that Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out.
> > > They are a stupid design. There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the
> > > seat. That is just plain mean.
> >
> > I have to agree it doesn't make much sense. But then having to take
links
> our
> > or add links to a chain just to adjust for different sized riders on a Lightning seems pretty
> > stupid too.
> >
> > Because of my height (or lack there of) I do not fit a 26X26 Strada. And
> this
> > was a disappointment.
> >
> > > I also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some
> riders love the
> > > Bachetta's handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the
> > > Haluzak and Lightning designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not
> > > significantly affected.
> >
> > Weight distribution on a Giro is not significantly altered by seat
> position.
> > Most of the body mass is always between the wheels which gives a close approximation to the
> > 45%:55% seen on the Lightning. The Giro also has a
> longer
> > wheelbase which also smooths out handling.
> > >
> > > Frustrated but I have not given up yet.
> >
> > Before you give up, get on a Giro. Better yet find a Small to ride
before
> you
> > abandon it for a slower bike.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> > - Bellaire, TX USA -

 

[Tom Sherman]

Ben Fox wrote:
>
> Yeah Tom, but you have the only one and won't sell it! If the price was right you'd sell
> it! Ben fox

Ben,

There are 17 other Sunsets out there. I would sell mine if the price were high enough for me to have
a custom Sunset clone built with large diameter titanium alloy tubing.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

[Ben Fox]

One bike that i can think of that the seat moves lower to the ground as it moves forward is a LWB
Rans stratus. Ben Fox

"Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> You vertically challenged guys are in deep doo doo when you get older. I used to be a shade under
> 6 feet ... and now I'm just under 5'10. That's because the human spine compresses over the course
> of 74 years . The good news is my X-seam is still 42.5 .... it's disproportionate to my height
> because my legs did not compress. I ride a M-L GRR (Ti Rush).
>
> Also, you just might be pleasantly surprised that a small P-38 will fit
you
> OK with a bit of tweaking... just my hunch. - Gator Bob Siegel EasyRacers Ti Rush "Cletus D. Lee"
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>, dizone1 @lycos.com says...
> > > Thanks for your help guys. I just received an email from Lightning. My X-seam appears to be
> > > 1/2 inch too short for the Med and I am too heavy for the Small. ... Lightning also did not
> > > answer any of the other questions I asked.
> > Call Tim. He is very responsive and the most helpful of any one that you
> can
> > speak with at LCD.
> >
> > >
> > > Ben, embarrassingly my X-seam is 36.5-37 depending on how flat I make my knees. I have
> > > muscular calves so there tends to be lots of daylight under my knees in the measurement
> > > position. I was not sure how much flex to maintain. Height 5.3" Glad for the anonymity of the
> > > internet.
> >
> > You are a short sh*t Aren't you? I'd like to keep you around just so the
> rest
> > of us can feel tall. ;-)
> > >
> > > Cletus, how much ht difference between the suspended 349 and the unsuspended?
> >
> > About 2" inches. Lowering the front wheel will not have that much effect
> on
> > the seat height. I can measure my seat/ground height on both the Voyager and the Giro.
> Putting
> > a 349 on the Med P-38 will not change the seat height by more than a an
> inch.
> >
> > > The suspended was almost too tall for you and the unsuspended may even be too tall for me.
> > > After noticing that Bachetta owners were enthusiastic about their rides. I checked them out.
> > > They are a stupid design. There, I said it, stupid. The shorter the rider, the higher the
> > > seat. That is just plain mean.
> >
> > I have to agree it doesn't make much sense. But then having to take
links
> our
> > or add links to a chain just to adjust for different sized riders on a Lightning seems pretty
> > stupid too.
> >
> > Because of my height (or lack there of) I do not fit a 26X26 Strada. And
> this
> > was a disappointment.
> >
> > > I also do not like moving the weight distribution so much. I bet some
> riders love the
> > > Bachetta's handling and others hate it---all because of weight distribution. I prefer the
> > > Haluzak and Lightning designs where the boom adjusts and weight distribution is not
> > > significantly affected.
> >
> > Weight distribution on a Giro is not significantly altered by seat
> position.
> > Most of the body mass is always between the wheels which gives a close approximation to the
> > 45%:55% seen on the Lightning. The Giro also has a
> longer
> > wheelbase which also smooths out handling.
> > >
> > > Frustrated but I have not given up yet.
> >
> > Before you give up, get on a Giro. Better yet find a Small to ride
before
> you
> > abandon it for a slower bike.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> > - Bellaire, TX USA -

 

[Tom Sherman]

Ben Fox wrote:
>
> Yeah Tom, but you have the only one and won't sell it! If the price was right you'd sell
> it! Ben fox

Ben,

There are 17 other Sunsets out there. I would sell mine if the price were high enough for me to have
a custom Sunset clone built with large diameter titanium alloy tubing.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

[John Riley]

Ben Fox wrote:
>
> One bike that i can think of that the seat moves lower to the ground as it moves forward is a LWB
> Rans stratus. Ben Fox

To which I would add, Don, have you thought about not limiting yourself to SWB? If you had a LWB
that fit you, it would not be all that long. TE's come in a lot of sizes, for example.

John Riley

 

[John Riley]

Ben Fox wrote:
>
> One bike that i can think of that the seat moves lower to the ground as it moves forward is a LWB
> Rans stratus. Ben Fox

To which I would add, Don, have you thought about not limiting yourself to SWB? If you had a LWB
that fit you, it would not be all that long. TE's come in a lot of sizes, for example.

John Riley