Wheel rant

suzyj said:

Hi guys,

<rant>

What the fsck is with bike shops these days?

I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking at spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhood of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likely choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.

She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up with Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggested I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS owner.

Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training rides. The poor [censored] just can't buy anything else.

</rant>

Cheers,

Suzy

Yepp, you are right, there is big fashing factor, in having what looks like a "cool" wheelset. When you look at what is "light" wheels, they are not lighter than what you can build with separate hubs and spokes and rims, 32h. My mtb came with factory built "normal" wheels, and they are not that good, I think a "wheelset" with a name would be slightly better, but a wheelset built by a good wheel builder would be the best. I am looking to pick up a wheelset on ebay or something. 🙂

suzyj said:

Hi guys,

<rant>

What the fsck is with bike shops these days?

I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking at
spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhood
of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likely
choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.

She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up with
Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice
aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built
wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggested
I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS
owner.

Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is
riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training
rides. The poor [censored] just can't buy anything else.

</rant>

Cheers,

Suzy

Well, I've been a regular rider for several decades now including
a bunch of laden touring (tents, stoves etc.) Now I ride mainly for
fitness. I recently went over to factory wheels (campag sciroccos and
zondas) and have to say I'm a convert. For years I've had problems
with breaking spokes. This is on wheels that I've built myself and
those build at various bike shops. I can't think of a rear wheel that
hasn't broken a drive side spoke at some point. All of these wheels
have gone out of true.

Even my commuting MTB (with slicks) has started pinging rear spokes.
Mind you, carrying me and my 2yo plus all his food is a big ask for
any bike.

I've now done about 1k on each of my sets of built wheels and they're
still true. I might add that they ride very well. Cornering is
great (no wallowing). I reckon the G3 system is fantastic and something
like it should be used on all rear wheels.

So, I sympathise with your opinion of LBSs but based on my few months
experience with built wheels, I'll buy them again except possibly for
a touring bike that I'm still dreaming of building up one day...I was
thinking of going Centaur triple for this machine.

As they say, YMMV.

Cheers,
Duncan.

--
e-mail: [email hidden]
To reply, you'll have to remove finger.

"suzyj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi guys,

I even suggested

Quoted message said:

I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS
owner.

Suzy,
What have you done with all the pairs of rims you bought off of me? Just
curious. I had a report from a guy who laced a pair of the Araya rms (300g
each) to some Sapim X-ray spokes and Am Classic 28h hubs, and the weight for
the pair of wheels was 1150g! (ain't that lighter than a pair of Zipp
202's?)
Old school rocks.
Gemma

Gemma_k said:

I had a report from a guy who laced a pair of the Araya rms (300g
each) to some Sapim X-ray spokes and Am Classic 28h hubs, and the weight for
the pair of wheels was 1150g! (ain't that lighter than a pair of Zipp
202's?)

Sure, bet they get sick of fixing the am classics though :P

till

suzyj said:

Hi guys,

<rant>

What the fsck is with bike shops these days?

I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking at
spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhood
of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likely
choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.

She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up with
Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice
aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built
wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggested
I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS
owner.

Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is
riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training
rides. The poor [censored] just can't buy anything else.

</rant>

Cheers,

Suzy

sounds like a [censored] shop Suzy. WHen I got my last roadie a bit over a
year ago I asked for Open Pros on 32H Centaur hubs and it was pretty
much standard to them - they even commended me on a good choice of wheel.

I guess low profile rims and 32 spokes (which aren't straight pull) are
just not fashionable these days. Seems like every second road bike I see
has Ksyriums.

--
Nick

NoZX6R said:

sounds like a [censored] shop Suzy. WHen I got my last roadie a bit over a
year ago I asked for Open Pros on 32H Centaur hubs and it was pretty
much standard to them - they even commended me on a good choice of wheel.

I guess low profile rims and 32 spokes (which aren't straight pull) are
just not fashionable these days. Seems like every second road bike I see
has Ksyriums.

--
Nick

Half? i think i got passed by some ol' geezer on a walking frame with Seeriums fitted the other day 🙄
Its all Bling

Most LBS's just sell what's foisted upon them and its all pre-ordained kit now.
Comparison shopping at diff shops is easy cos you know "that one's a GIANT shop, that one does trek, etc, etc" and its all like buying a car, but without the cupholder count (altho its only a matter of time... )

flyingdutch said:

Most LBS's just sell what's foisted upon them and its all pre-ordained kit now.
Comparison shopping at diff shops is easy cos you know "that one's a GIANT shop, that one does trek, etc, etc" and its all like buying a car, but without the cupholder count (altho its only a matter of time... )

Too True FD........In Melb there are still some good wheel builders tho, who will do as you ask and some!, such as John Beesley, Omara's (JaiO works a wheel well) , Kennedy is a whiz and has a great range of hoops, spokes, hubs and (if you are really ready to rock, even Boras and singles to boot) and also Walkers in the CBD, Fitzies too.

I found great value for money for road/training wheels with Velocity's Fusions 32h front and 36h rear , butted spokes and bullet hubs, have done 12000klms on one set without ever needing a spoke spanner......

People think that you have to have a pro's look-alike bike in all respects to actually ride well...ahemmm, how many pro-bikes get tossed after each race....or are heavily rebuilt with a wrench guy/wench standing by at every event?.....or actually bear no resemblance to what they say you can buy "standard"in the LBS? ....Unless you are at elite level, or have a huge pocket full of readies, and can afford the high end wheels with singles, or constanly replacing the fragile mini spoked thingies that bust up at the hint of a speed-hump....go for the safest profile hoop, with a sensible number of spokes, on a good hub....get a clean rolling tire, don't over inflate and go have some fun!!!

If you have the time, ...remember your wheels are your most important link with the road and vital to your safety, so they must be suited to your needs, your weight and the performance dictates you impose...( like fitting a bike)... shop around the traditional stores that arn't Pizza factories, and dont take any [censored].

And on a fossickers note..I got some great Record hubs off the vulture table at Walkers last week ( incl 32h Record Titanium and a C-Record 36h), for future projects...(and some Campy Athena Carbon 9Speed Ergos-in box too ( oh so sweeeeeet!) - and a great Suntour bottom bracket...projects projects projects....what are winter nights for anyway?

so mooch around, ask questions, be a pain and ...repeat after me "dont take any [censored]"....

here endeth the lesson...😉

* Now about that cup holder...a bit of gaffer and a cut down bidon holder will do, just up here on the side of the stem.....hmmmmmmm...where's that brew?*

suzyj said:

Hi guys,

<rant>

What the fsck is with bike shops these days?

I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking at spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhood of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likely choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.

She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up with Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggested I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS owner.

Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training rides. The poor [censored] just can't buy anything else.

</rant>

Cheers,

Suzy

Alright, we know you're a retrogrouch from way back 😉

Come to think of it, I'm up to about 12000km on my homemade wheels: cxp33 rims, dt 14/15/14 spokes, brass nipples + ultegra 32h hubs. Not a broken spoke or a spoke key in sight... I take this as being a pretty good money saving outcome, given the deplorable state of Sydney's roads (which killed my old Giant Peloton...)

The homemade version cost somewhere around $600 in parts for the pair. A set of R500 wheels is just $295, but weigh a ton and won't last near as long.

Ritch

How long does a rim last anyway? A road rim... used on roads - not a mtb rim used in dirt and mud. Anyone here worn through a rim?

quote='NoZX6R'suzyj said:

She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up with
Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice
aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built
wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggested
I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS
owner.

sounds like a [censored] shop Suzy. WHen I got my last roadie a bit over a
year ago I asked for Open Pros on 32H Centaur hubs and it was pretty
much standard to them - they even commended me on a good choice of wheel.
[/QUOTE]

When I got my OCR0 I had them substitute SPDs for the SLs, since then they've built me open pros on durace-9-32H, first the rear, then the front.
Had to wait on the rear spokes, then nipples; and the front hub(thought too late, could have gone record!) Basically what the senior staff guy (not a mechanic) had built himself before his woman got him onto campy.
We'd discussed Ksyriums but these are supposed smoother - plus I could get just the rear. The spokes are light but!
What % of shops have a wheelbuilder?

PS why centaur hubs? Chorus or even record wouldn't be that much more.

There's such a high margin in those fashionable wheels. Assemble $300 of
components and sell them for $1300. And then when a spoke breaks or a rim
gets bent, it costs an arm and a leg for the replacement, assuming that
they're still available (just ask those suckers who bought Helium wheels and
can't get replacement parts).

Nick

"suzyj" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is
riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training
rides. The poor [censored] just can't buy anything else.

suzyj said:

Hi guys,

<rant>

What the fsck is with bike shops these days?

I went bike shopping with a friend yesterday. She's looking at
spending a good quantity of change on a new bike - in the neighborhood
of $4K. She's a Campyphile though, so that narrowed down the likely
choices. We looked at Giants, Bianchis, Pinarellos, and Carreras.

She wants Centaur kit, and wants proper 32 spoke wheels, built up with
Centaur hubs and Open Pros. Should be totally easy, but in practice
aws anything but. The bike shops will supply Ksyriums, Campy built
wheels, _anything_ but bog standard 32 spoke wheels. I even suggested
I lace them myself, and received a look of absolute horror from one LBS
owner.

Blimey! I gotta say, I was surprised. Now I know why everyone is
riding around on those ridiculous low spoke count wheels on training
rides. The poor [censored] just can't buy anything else.

My LBS will build you wheels, but they're in Melbourne 🙂

flyingdutch said:

NoZX6R said:

sounds like a [censored] shop Suzy. WHen I got my last roadie a bit over a
year ago I asked for Open Pros on 32H Centaur hubs and it was pretty
much standard to them - they even commended me on a good choice of
wheel.

I guess low profile rims and 32 spokes (which aren't straight pull)
are
just not fashionable these days. Seems like every second road bike I
see
has Ksyriums.

--
Nick

Half? i think i got passed by some ol' geezer on a walking frame with
Seeriums fitted the other day 🙄
Its all Bling

Or is that "fling"? Damn ksyriums .. try and fix them when they
break!

ritcho said:

The homemade version cost somewhere around $600 in parts for the pair.
A set of R500 wheels is just $295, but weigh a ton and won't last near
as long.

And you'll spend 2 months waiting for a new spoke if one breaks ...

Quoted message said:

Ritch

How long does a rim last anyway? A road rim... used on roads - not a
mtb rim used in dirt and mud. Anyone here worn through a rim?

I've worn out an Open Pro to the point where the rim exploded on
a (very slow!) descent. Around 30,000km it lasted, I think.
Around that sort of distance anyway. I'm hard on rims, I'm
heavy and do a lot of wet descents.

Gemma said:

What have you done with all the pairs of rims
you bought off of me?

Nothing (yet). They're destined for my next project - a super-duper lightweight road racing bike. It'll use polished stainless lugs, Columbus Genius tubes (love them 0.4mm tube walls) and will have two sets of wheels - one set will use the Ambrosio 32 hole rims, with Chorus hubs, for general racing, and a set of "climbing" wheels, with the 28 hole Nisi rims and Record hubs. Or that's the plan, anyway 🙂

I've been watching my early '90s Tour de France DVDs for inspiration 🙂

Quoted message said:

I had a report from a guy who laced a pair of the Araya rms
(300g each) to some Sapim X-ray spokes and Am Classic 28h
hubs, and the weight for the pair of wheels was 1150g! (ain't
that lighter than a pair of Zipp 202's?)

Cool. I'm expecting similar a weight from the Nisi (290g each)/Record 28 spoke combo.

Quoted message said:

Old school rocks.

Don't need no steenkin' Ksyriums 🙂

Cheers,

Suzy

Aeeeeeeeek said:

PS why centaur hubs? Chorus or even record wouldn't
be that much more.

Mainly because the rest of the bike is Centaur, and we figured they could order the hubs with the group. That said though, the hubs are one of the reasons the whole group is Centaur. Centaur are the cheapest group with the very yummy oversize aluminium axled hubs. They're identical to Record, with the exception that the adjusty bit is plastic rather than aluminium, and they don't have oil holes. Oh, and did I mention they're cheaper 🙂

I'm usually a serious retrogrouch, but I make an exception for the new OS Record/Chorus/Centaur hubs. The design is so much better than the old ones, it's amazing.

Regards,

Suzy

Carl Brewer said:

My LBS will build you wheels, but they're in Melbourne 🙂

I'd actually prefer to build them myself'. Indeed I'd prefer to build the bike for her. Problem is, if she ordered a frame, a groupset, some Open Pros, some spokes,and all the other bits to make the bike, it would probably set her back closer to $6K than $4K.

It's that "assembled bike" thing.

Me, I've never bought an assembled bike in me life. Come to think of it, I've never bought a whole groupset at a time, either. I just buy bits.

Cheers,

Suzy

quote='suzyj'Carl Brewer said:

My LBS will build you wheels, but they're in Melbourne 🙂

I'd actually prefer to build them myself'. Indeed I'd prefer to build the bike for her. Problem is, if she ordered a frame, a groupset, some Open Pros, some spokes,and all the other bits to make the bike, it would probably set her back closer to $6K than $4K.

It's that "assembled bike" thing.

Me, I've never bought an assembled bike in me life. Come to think of it, I've never bought a whole groupset at a time, either. I just buy bits.

Cheers,

Suzy[/QUOTE]
Then it is simple, she buys bike with bling wheels, sell on ebay, replace with wheels you build for her, I imagine the extra cost will be neglible. A bit of hassle selling the wheels, but if they are bling ones, no probs I reckon.

Claes said:

Then it is simple, she buys bike with bling wheels, sell on ebay, replace with wheels you build for her, I imagine the extra cost will be neglible. A bit of hassle selling the wheels, but if they are bling ones, no probs I reckon.

Hello I am a old bike mechanic and build wheels all the time at work. I ride a road bike am 198cm and weigh 105kgs. I ride of curbs at 40kmh and do all sorts of things on a road bike that people do on a atb.I use any cassette hub thats laying around but a 32 hole deep dish rim heat treated, Sapin spokes or DT, As I true and build wheels at work everyday I hate doing mine , for me what works is a deepdish rim Velocity or Sun rims

suzyj said:

Carl Brewer said:

My LBS will build you wheels, but they're in Melbourne 🙂

I'd actually prefer to build them myself'. Indeed I'd prefer to build
the bike for her. Problem is, if she ordered a frame, a groupset, some
Open Pros, some spokes,and all the other bits to make the bike, it would
probably set her back closer to $6K than $4K.

Yeah, but you can always sell the ksyriums (maybe to some poor
sap who has some that are broken 🙂 ) and buy the bits to make
good wheels instead. I'd bet the ksyriums, even 2ndhand, would
be "worth" more than most home-built wheels.