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Wheel Builiding?

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Australia and New Zealand
Published
3 May 2008
Last activity
8 May 2008
Original author
Bill the Cat
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  1. Hi all,

    Ahh a long weekend but sick as a dog so I can't ride. I was just looking at
    the different hub dynamos out there and wondering whether building one's own
    wheel is possible.

    I kind of know that it is possible as I built a touring rear wheel as a kid
    without any tools other than a spoke key and time.

    However, it was *NOT* a good wheel - the lateral movement was minimal but it
    had lots of "dips" and some really freaky loose spokes.

    I am thinking that it would be fun to try a front wheel (25+ years later).
    Can a lay person make a professional front wheel without, say, a spoke
    tension meter or are there other tools required as well?

    Then there is the choice of rim - it is for my commuter, but I want to do
    some touring on it as well. Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    BtC

  2. "Bill the Cat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi all,

    Ahh a long weekend but sick as a dog so I can't ride. I was just looking at
    the different hub dynamos out there and wondering whether building one's own
    wheel is possible.

    I kind of know that it is possible as I built a touring rear wheel as a kid
    without any tools other than a spoke key and time.

    However, it was *NOT* a good wheel - the lateral movement was minimal but it
    had lots of "dips" and some really freaky loose spokes.

    I am thinking that it would be fun to try a front wheel (25+ years later).
    Can a lay person make a professional front wheel without, say, a spoke
    tension meter or are there other tools required as well?

    Then there is the choice of rim - it is for my commuter, but I want to do
    some touring on it as well. Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    BtC

    All you need is the right length spokes for the hub, cross pattern and rim, and
    a spoke key. You can use your front forks as a stand.

    Oh, and a book, and lots of time.

    Get tension from plucking sound. Make sure you're not tone deaf, and have heard
    a similar (good) wheel before.

    Tomasso.

  3. Bill the Cat said:

    Hi all,

    Ahh a long weekend but sick as a dog so I can't ride. I was just looking at
    the different hub dynamos out there and wondering whether building one's own
    wheel is possible.

    Yes. BTDT. The hard part is if the hub flangesare different sizes, aka the
    SA I did. You will then need different length spokes for each side and
    each side will sound differently when plucked. Also need to watch out
    that the rim is centred between the flanges. Think different tightenng and
    adjustment to each side.

    Quoted message said:

    I kind of know that it is possible as I built a touring rear wheel as a
    kid without any tools other than a spoke key and time.

    Err, any set of forks makes that job so much easier.

    Quoted message said:


    However, it was *NOT* a good wheel - the lateral movement was minimal
    but it had lots of "dips" and some really freaky loose spokes.

    When centreing the rim radially, the trick is to workout which spokes to
    let off first before tightening the obes that are too far out; hint not
    the ones directly opposite.

    Then squeeze thew bunch of fours all the way around, then repeat with
    release and tighten, then squeeze, spin repeat.

    Quoted message said:


    I am thinking that it would be fun to try a front wheel (25+ years
    later). Can a lay person make a professional front wheel without, say, a
    spoke tension meter or are there other tools required as well?

    Spoke key, hearing(spoon striker) and a set of "forks" are all you need,
    if you are usuing new spokes. Old spokes can be a little tricky as they
    can be "different".

    Quoted message said:


    Then there is the choice of rim - it is for my commuter, but I want to
    do some touring on it as well. Any suggestions?

    <asbestos suit> steel of course

  4. Bill the Cat said:

    Hi all,

    Ahh a long weekend but sick as a dog so I can't ride. I was just looking at
    the different hub dynamos out there and wondering whether building one's own
    wheel is possible.

    Yep;

    It's a bit easier with a tensionmeter, and you'll end up with a better
    wheel, but it is not impossible to build good wheel without one. If
    you're on good terms with your LBS consider asking whether you can check
    your wheel with their tensionmeter when it's built.

    Cheers

    Joel

    --
    Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
    [email hidden] | Affordable second hand bikes
    (03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
    www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

  5. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi all,

    Ahh a long weekend but sick as a dog so I can't ride. I was just looking at
    the different hub dynamos out there and wondering whether building one's own
    wheel is possible.

    I kind of know that it is possible as I built a touring rear wheel as a kid
    without any tools other than a spoke key and time.

    However, it was *NOT* a good wheel - the lateral movement was minimal but it
    had lots of "dips" and some really freaky loose spokes.

    I am thinking that it would be fun to try a front wheel (25+ years later).
    Can a lay person make a professional front wheel without, say, a spoke
    tension meter or are there other tools required as well?

    Then there is the choice of rim - it is for my commuter, but I want to do
    some touring on it as well. Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    BtC


    I laced up a SON dynamo a few years ago, likewise I had never built a
    wheel before.

    I just got a cheapo rim and spokes to go with the pricey hub!

    It has goven zilch touble. When I was tensioning the lot up, I laid the
    wheel on it's side pushed down on the rim, flipped it did the same
    again. Lots of popping and cracking sounds, but these stopped after a
    couple of decent pushes. Did a final true up and never touched it since.

    Tension is your friend, loose spokes invite a wobbly wheel.
    I even straightened a wheel the LBS gave up on and it too held its shape
    with a good tension in the spokes.

    I'm a musical moron, but the spokes sounded similar when plucked.

    Ray

  6. Bill the Cat said:

    Hi all,

    Ahh a long weekend but sick as a dog so I can't ride. I was just looking at
    the different hub dynamos out there and wondering whether building one's own
    wheel is possible.

    I kind of know that it is possible as I built a touring rear wheel as a kid
    without any tools other than a spoke key and time.

    However, it was *NOT* a good wheel - the lateral movement was minimal but it
    had lots of "dips" and some really freaky loose spokes.

    I am thinking that it would be fun to try a front wheel (25+ years later).
    Can a lay person make a professional front wheel without, say, a spoke
    tension meter or are there other tools required as well?

    Then there is the choice of rim - it is for my commuter, but I want to do
    some touring on it as well. Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    BtC


    Jobst Brandt's book on the Bicycle Wheel is a very good reference book.
    It is my wheel building bible.

    You need a truing stand, a spoke wrench and time. That's all. It is a
    great winter evening activity in front of the TV or listening to music.

  7. terryc said:

    Spoke key, hearing(spoon striker) and a set of "forks" are all you need,
    if you are usuing new spokes.

    And screwdriver/steel tyre lever/crank end to 'stress relieve' the spokes at
    the cross-overs. You tweak them a bit at the cross to set the bend into the
    spokes.
    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#seating

    --
    Cheers
    Peter

    ~~~ ~ _@
    ~~ ~ _- \,
    ~~ (*)/ (*)

  8. Ray said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi all,

    Ahh a long weekend but sick as a dog so I can't ride. I was just looking at
    the different hub dynamos out there and wondering whether building one's own
    wheel is possible.

    <SNIP>

    Quoted message said:

    Tension is your friend, loose spokes invite a wobbly wheel.
    I even straightened a wheel the LBS gave up on and it too held its shape
    with a good tension in the spokes.

    Up to a point only though, too much tension and the wheel will colapse
    onto its self, or the spoke heads will pull through the rim.

    Saw the later of these two at work this week on a 6 month old wheel
    which had been ''tweaked up'' by the Loophole bicycle colective here in
    Melbourne, On the drive side +1mm of spoke was poking out the end of
    each nipple and the average tension on the drive side (after failure!) was
    around 140Nm.

    Cheers

    Joel

    --
    Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
    [email hidden] | Affordable second hand bikes
    (03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
    www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

  9. Ray said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi all,

    Ahh a long weekend but sick as a dog so I can't ride. I was just looking at
    the different hub dynamos out there and wondering whether building one's own
    wheel is possible.

    <SNIP>

    Quoted message said:

    Tension is your friend, loose spokes invite a wobbly wheel.
    I even straightened a wheel the LBS gave up on and it too held its shape
    with a good tension in the spokes.

    Up to a point only though, too much tension and the wheel will colapse
    onto its self, or the spoke heads will pull through the rim.

    Saw the later of these two at work this week on a 6 month old wheel
    which had been ''tweaked up'' by the Loophole bicycle colective here in
    Melbourne, On the drive side +1mm of spoke was poking out the end of
    each nipple and the average tension on the drive side (after failure!) was
    around 140Nm.

    Cheers

    Joel

    --
    Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
    [email hidden] | Affordable second hand bikes
    (03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
    www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

  10. Patrick Keogh said:


    Bill the Cat said:

    Hi all,

    Ahh a long weekend but sick as a dog so I can't ride. I was just looking at
    the different hub dynamos out there and wondering whether building one's own
    wheel is possible.

    I kind of know that it is possible as I built a touring rear wheel as a kid
    without any tools other than a spoke key and time.

    However, it was *NOT* a good wheel - the lateral movement was minimal but it
    had lots of "dips" and some really freaky loose spokes.

    I am thinking that it would be fun to try a front wheel (25+ years later).
    Can a lay person make a professional front wheel without, say, a spoke
    tension meter or are there other tools required as well?

    Then there is the choice of rim - it is for my commuter, but I want to do
    some touring on it as well. Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    BtC


    Jobst Brandt's book on the Bicycle Wheel is a very good reference book.
    It is my wheel building bible.

    You need a truing stand, a spoke wrench and time. That's all. It is a
    great winter evening activity in front of the TV or listening to music.

    A truing stand is really only needed for the practised professional
    who can build a wheel in an hour.

    I've cycled 110,000 kms on wheels I have built.
    They used to have 36 spokes, but now I have aero CX33 Mavic which are
    strong as older D mavics
    with 36.

    I just have the bike turned upside down and use it as the stand after
    roughly lacing the wheel in my lap.
    I use a 3 cross pattern everywhere.
    I get all the spokes in with nipples wound up so the thread just
    dissappears from view.
    The wheel still has all loose spokes, but can be put into a bike frame
    and each spoke it wound 1 turn each all around, then again and again
    as the tension nears where you want it, so you need to know
    when the tension is about right. Not too tight, not too loose.
    I just sort of know, after so much practice.
    If in doubt, compare your wheel in a bike shop to what the
    tech man does and other bikes.

    Something metal can be held in the forks to gauge the straightness of
    the wheel
    while turning it around.

    Its important to get the rim centralised, and without hills and dales
    larger than 1/4 of a mm.
    When the rim is within 0.25mm of being true both sideways and up and
    down,
    then you'll find the spokes are nearly at equal tension.

    Rear road wheels are a little fiddly because the cassette side has its
    spokes much tighter than the
    other side, due to the angle of pull of the spoke, ie the "dishing" of
    the wheel.
    The front and rear rims should end up being exactly on the centre line
    on the frame.

    To ensure this I made a timber straight edge 2M long with 4 offset
    struts of 100mm
    whose ends are also in a straight line.
    The straight edge can be used to set the wheels along a straight line,
    and when eyeballing
    front to rear and rear to front you'll see if the wheels also are
    aligned on the dead centre
    of the frame. Equal measures of frame should appear each side of the
    rims.
    Handlebar alignment is also done using the same tool.
    The rims and frame should both be exactly in the same plane.
    If when the front rim is dead plumb, and both are in line, then the rear
    rim should also
    be plumb. I use a builder's level.
    And the rear rim should have equal clearance between rear fork legs, as
    with the front rim
    and its forks.

    So sometimes you have to bring a rim over 1mm to get it right, and it
    means loosening
    spokes on one side, tightening on the other, maybe 1/2 a turn on all
    spokes either way.

    Start tightening/untightening at the tube valve hole and work around.

    Don't answer phones while wheel building and turn off the tele!

    Spokes tighter than the rest can snap sooner rather than later, and
    cause fatigue in the alloy rim material and cracks develop.
    A good wheel lasts a long while but eventually it secumbs to
    wear from brakes and fatigue cracking.

    Spokes should be adjusted every time you see a slight wobble in one.

    Patrick Turner.

  11. Patrick Turner said:

    A truing stand is really only needed for the practised professional
    who can build a wheel in an hour.

    Truing stand to me just means a large block of wood with hole to hold a
    pair of forks upright, which is then clamped to the work bench. I can
    then sit on the high stool and build/true the wheel in comfort with
    tools/drink in easy reach.

    AFAIK, all a commercial truing stand has is wind in guages. Thumb works
    okay for me, but you can also bend a flat strip of metal around the forks
    and slowly work it towards the centre, if that helps for keeping them oval
    and measuring the wobbles to worked out.

    Quoted message said:

    I just have the bike turned upside down

    BTDT.

  12. terryc said:


    Patrick Turner said:

    A truing stand is really only needed for the practised professional
    who can build a wheel in an hour.

    Truing stand to me just means a large block of wood with hole to hold a
    pair of forks upright, which is then clamped to the work bench. I can
    then sit on the high stool and build/true the wheel in comfort with
    tools/drink in easy reach.

    But you need to suit the front hub width and rear hub width with the
    dishing.
    I don't have a spare old frame or forks to use.
    A keener person than I am would make their own alignment truing stand
    with welded steel angles and rear/front adjustments.
    I'm lazy. But then I only have to make new wheels after I have worn out
    the old wheels out.
    In 17 weeks, I have cycled 3,400km, ie, 200km a week, or about 10,000km
    a year.
    Maybe at this rate I might not have to build another wheel for 2 years.
    I have 3 road bikes. 12 months ago when i changed from old fashioned
    cluster cogs and
    down tube shift levers to cassettes and index shifting after the ancient
    rims
    bought in about 1990 all cracked, I did have to make 4 new wheels, and
    I hope what I have made lasts as well as the old fashioned lot did.
    One bike has a Reynolds 753R frame, and it only gets a ride on sunday.
    One has 531, its gets 2 rides a week, and the other with a real junky
    chrome molly frame has 1 gear only, a freewheel
    with 66" gear for spinning along on flat courses with slight hills.
    Its still got ancient Wolbers and 36 spokes.
    And Vitoria Radonneer 28mm tyres, which are the only ones that resist
    thorns and most broken glass.

    Might as well use the frame where the wheels are going into.

    I'm using 8 speed Shimano SORA cassettes on two bikes.
    I had to fiddle a bit to make the hub width fit the old steel frames;
    it meant the rear hub width had to slightly reduced to suit the 125mm
    between
    rear fork plates, and the wheel is slightly more dished than with a 7
    speed old cluster.
    Anyway, it works just fine for me.

    I know it hasn't much to do with wheel building, but I am also using
    52 + 39 Shimano 600 crank set, with slightly non standard smallest cogs
    on the cassettes. One has 28 to 13, this gives 39 : 28, and is good for
    really steep long hills.
    There is no Shimano 28-13 road cassette, but I altered a mountain bike 8
    speed
    cassette by fitting a 13/14 from a road cassette.
    I have a touring 8 speed SORA compatible deraileur.
    Works fine, and i didn't have to throw away too much gear when i changed
    to the
    cassette system which I like a lot; like playing the piano as you ride.
    I used to get by at age 40 with 42:23 being my lowest gear but at 61 the
    39:28
    is now needed. In a few years I probably will replace crankset and chain
    rings for the compact
    50:34, and then the standard road cassetts will be fine.

    One must reduce the gear size as one ages, because unlike juniors moving
    up to seniors
    and higher gearing as one strengthens, one needs to prevent knee damage
    from overuse when you age.

    Quoted message said:


    AFAIK, all a commercial truing stand has is wind in guages. Thumb works
    okay for me, but you can also bend a flat strip of metal around the forks
    and slowly work it towards the centre, if that helps for keeping them oval
    and measuring the wobbles to worked out.

    I use a flat plastic tyre lever. Doesn't damage the paint.
    The rims are turned to feel the out of trueness. A thumb does feel a
    hump, hollow,
    or sideways wobble, but once you get to the last 1/2 millimetre the
    thumb isn't
    good enough, and you need to swing the wheel back and forth to get the
    right place to see which spoke needs maybe only 1/2 a turn.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I just have the bike turned upside down

    Which allows me to sit comfortably, and see what I am doing...

    Patrick Turner.

    Quoted message said:


    BTDT.

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