What's the best chain cleaner & degreaser?



"Werehatrack" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:eek:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:47:29 +0100, "Daniel Kelly
> \(AKA Jack\)"
> <[email protected]> may have said:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >Please may I ask your advice? What's the best device for
> >cleaning
mountain
> >bike chains? I'd like it to be cheap and to work without
> >me having to
take
> >the chain off.
>
> This has been discussed endlessly. May I suggest that a
> few hours spent Googling the prior threads should either
> leave you completely confused or extremely well-informed,
> or somewhere between those two? (The result will be little
> different from Yet Another chain cleaning thread, in that
> regard.)

Indeed.

However, I would like to say, cleaning a chain actually does
it harm! It gets oil away from the load surfaces, and ****
in! You should just keep re-oiling it, lasts 2 to 5 times
longer that way. Excess crud removes itself via the critical
mass method, same way and MTB cleans itself.

HTH educate those who don't know this.

Shaun aRe - If google is you friend, who buys the
first round?
 
"Jonesy" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Back to topic: I also have had poor luck with citrus-based
> solvents. They are good for degreasing clothes, or
> removing glue residue, but not for chain cleaning. I use
> good ol' paint thinner in a soda bottle. Put in the chain.
> Shake. Pull the chain out and wipe. Let dirt settle out.
> Pour off clear (no dirt particles) supernatant to a new
> bottle, remove dirt from old bottle. Put chain in new
> bottle. Shake. Rinse, lather, repeat until no dirt comes
> out of chain. Dry thoroughly, such that NO solvent is left
> in the chain.

I find a flame works best for this.

> Soak in lightweight motor oil overnight. Pull out, let
> drain, wipe down with solventy rag. Install, let sit,
> wipe it down again. Ride for three minutes until it's
> dirty again.
>
> After having seen at least one experiment in r.b.t., I
> think the "wipe real good, re-oil, wipe real good
> again" is the best method for chain lubrication. Skip
> the cleaning, and replace the thing when it gets
> really filthy.

Yes, clean chains are a tool for the poser, and
nothing else.

> I run oil in the winter, drier lube (wax-based) in the
> summer. Seems to work OK. Then again, whenever I pull the
> chain for cleaning, I pull the cassette too. While I'm
> waiting for some of the steps, I clean the chainrings and
> jockey wheels.
>
> But if you Googled, you might have got all that already.

Googling makes me dizzy. All that jumping up and down.

Shaun aRe
 
"Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:AuJac.5938$u%[email protected]...
>
>
> Werehatrack wrote:
> > On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:47:29 +0100, "Daniel Kelly \(AKA
> > Jack\)"
> > <[email protected]> may have said:
> >
> >
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>Please may I ask your advice? What's the best device for
> >>cleaning
mountain
> >>bike chains? I'd like it to be cheap and to work without
> >>me having to
take
> >>the chain off.
> >
> >
> > This has been discussed endlessly. May I suggest that a
> > few hours spent Googling the prior threads should either
> > leave you completely
>
> We are no longer allowed to Google for previous threads
> over here in rec.bicycles.racing.

Why?

> We have to pay attention the first time round.

You're in trouble then, 'least until tomorrow.

Shaun aRe
 
"SMMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jonesy" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message
> de :
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Daniel Kelly \(AKA Jack\)"
> > <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > SMMB: Googling is not obligatory, but it certainly is a
> > good way to get a baseline set of data. From that data
> > set, one could then ask focused questions for clarity.
>
> I see ... That's to leave the available bandwidth for all
> the original thinkers who post here.

Here seems to be everywhere at the moment. I am an original
thinker. Well, maybe not now, but I was originally.

> Please pardon my silly comment.

This news group is now closed. Thank you for your attention.

Shaun aRe
 
"Daniel Kelly (AKA Jack)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> Thank you loads for your help, everyone. Incidentally, I
> did spend an
hour
> or so Googling before I posted my newsgroup question. But
> there are a lot of opinions out there and I wanted to see
> what the current status quo is.
>
> Thanks again to those who took the time to write helpful
> and constructive comments.
>
> Jack

So, who's advice did you take in the end?!?!?

Shaun aRe - Knowing minds need to enquire.
 
"Jonesy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... .
> Back to topic: I also have had poor luck with citrus-based
> solvents. They are good for degreasing clothes, or
> removing glue residue, but not for chain cleaning. I use
> good ol' paint thinner in a soda bottle. Put in the chain.
> Shake. Pull the chain out and wipe. Let dirt settle out.
> Pour off clear (no dirt particles) supernatant to a new
> bottle, remove dirt from old bottle. Put chain in new
> bottle. Shake. Rinse, lather, repeat until no dirt comes
> out of chain.

This is about the same as using a chain cleaning device,
again, the key is "rinse, lather, repeat."

> Dry thoroughly, such that NO solvent is left in the chain.

Which is why you shouldn't use water based solvents. It's
very difficult to dry it. You have water mixed with old
lubricant inside the links. I guess that a torch would
accellerate the drying process. OTOH, a little petroleum
based solvent left inside is not a problem.

> Soak in lightweight motor oil overnight. Pull out, let
> drain, wipe down with solventy rag. Install, let sit,
> wipe it down again. Ride for three minutes until it's
> dirty again.

30W oil is okay (never 10Wanything), but chainsaw oil is a
better choice.

> After having seen at least one experiment in r.b.t., I
> think the "wipe real good, re-oil, wipe real good
> again" is the best method for chain lubrication. Skip
> the cleaning, and replace the thing when it gets
> really filthy.

This works too. The problem is that it's very hard to
lubricate the inside of a chain without submersing it. What
works best is, unsurprisingly, chain lubricant, a foaming
spray that is sold a motorcycle parts stores.

> I run oil in the winter, drier lube (wax-based) in
> the summer.

Wax is a very poor lubricant.
 
"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steven M. Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:%[email protected]
> hlink.net...
>
>
> > Sometimes compressed air is helpful.
>
> Yes, for those moments when you _rilly rilly_ need to get
> fine abrasive particles into the load bearing parts of
> the chain.

He wasn't asking about the chain, he was asking about other
parts of the "chainset" which I believed to mean stuff like
the freewheel, derailleur, etc.
 
Shaun Rimmer wrote:

> So, who's advice did you take in the end?!?!?

So to speak, Gracie?

Bill "lubes, indeed" S.
 
"SMMB" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Jonesy" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message
> de :
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Daniel Kelly \(AKA Jack\)"
> > <[email protected]> wrote in
> message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > SMMB: Googling is not obligatory, but it certainly is a
> > good way to get a baseline set of data. From that data
> > set, one could then ask focused questions for clarity.
>
> I see ... That's to leave the available bandwidth for all
> the original thinkers who post here.

Your lame attempt at wit aside...

Googling (or some other archive search) serves to EDUCATE.
It requires no additional input from any other source. And
it shows that one is willing to do a research before
requesting to be spoon-fed. A courtesy, if you will.

> Please pardon my silly comment.

It would be easy, if you had actually offered any sort of
answer of relevance to the question at hand.

Please, share some more of your wit with the world. We are
in obvious need of it. :roll eyes:
--
Jonesy
 
"Jonesy" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de :
news:[email protected]...
>
> Googling (or some other archive search) serves to EDUCATE.
> It requires no additional input from any other source. And
> it shows that one is willing to do a research before
> requesting to be spoon-fed. A courtesy, if you will.

I would have let it drop, but...

The necessary implication of your argument is that for all
questions, there are already answers, and so there is no
need to ask anything, here. And I'm not sure that opinions
are "data".

You may have noticed the OP did, indeed, research before
asking, even with your favorite search engine. Sounds
exceptionally prepared to me. Hope he got a right answer.
And my use has varied by the countries I have lived in and
what products are available, so I did not reply directly.

I imagine when you get together with your friends for a
ride, and they ask you how your week went, you query them
why they didn't look at your blog. Charming. Chide away -
you may just be able to alienate those who just simply want
to ask a question, not reading or having read the FAQ, the
encyclopedias, the journals, et c.
--
Bonne route,

Sandy Paris FR
 
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 21:16:16 +0200, "SMMB" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Jonesy" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le
>message de :
>> Googling (or some other archive search) serves to
>> EDUCATE. It
>
>I would have let it drop, but...
>
>The necessary implication of your argument is that for all
>questions, there are already answers, and so there is no
>need to ask anything, here. And I'm not sure that opinions
>are "data".
>
>You may have noticed the OP did, indeed, research before
>asking, even with your favorite search engine. Sounds
>exceptionally prepared to me. Hope he got a right answer.
>And my use has varied by the countries I have lived in and
>what products are available, so I did not reply directly.

While it is courteous to search FAQs and past discussions
for answers to what are probably common questions, it's
often unoffensive to just post your question sans-research.
People in these newsfroups don't mind going out of their way
to answer such questions, mostly.

However, I believe that Jonesy hoped to avoid this specific
long, drawn-out thread that repeats itself every couple
months. It's unnecessary to go over the same arguments and
opinions so often.

Further, it's obvious to me that it was a troll. If you
wrote a Trolling Howto, here's how it would go:
1. Choose a topic that historically has generated lots of
strongly-held opinions.
2. Cross-post a request for opinions on it to the following
groups: alt.mountain-
bike,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bic-
ycles.racing,rec.bicycles.rides,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.bi-
cycles.tech
3. Wait.

Is there any reason, other than trolling, to cross-post it?
Is there any reason, other than trolling, to post to
rec.bicycles.marketplace or rec.bicycles.soc or
rec.bicycles.rides _at_all_?

Note the day on which it was posted, too.

So, why are you so offended that a troll was given the
suggestion to go and read the many thousands of messages
just like the ones he asked for?

>I imagine when you get together with your friends for a
>ride, and they ask you how your week went, you query them
>why they didn't look at your blog.

How my week went changes from week to week. Further, asking
one person vocally is far different from asking thousands on
the internet, when you've already got the information at
your fingertips.

>Charming. Chide away - you may just be able to alienate
>those who just simply want to ask a question, not
>reading or having read the FAQ, the encyclopedias, the
>journals, et c.

I wouldn't mind if people were alienated who cross-post to
so many groups to ask such loaded questions.
--
Rick Onanian
 
On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 22:14:56 +0200, "SMMB" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Rick Onanian" <[email protected]>a écrit dans le
>message de :
>> Further, it's obvious to me that it was a troll
>
>Sorry, but I took it as a simple query, and as the OP
>thanked those who replied, I still do.

If it wasn't a troll, how do you explain the cross-post
list that covers nearly every bicycling newsfroup on
the internet?
--
Rick Onanian
 
"Daniel Kelly \(AKA Jack\)" <[email protected]> wrote:

> And does anyone have any cunning trade secrets they'd like
> to give away regarding cleaning the rest of the chainset?
> Or does everyone just use de-greaser and a tooth brush?

3 cups-o-expresso, wait fifteen minutes and pee on the
chain.
 
"Daniel Kelly \(AKA Jack\)" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi,
>
> Thank you loads for your help, everyone. Incidentally, I
> did spend an hour or so Googling before I posted my
> newsgroup question. But there are a lot of opinions out
> there and I wanted to see what the current status quo is.
>
> Thanks again to those who took the time to write helpful
> and constructive comments.

Jack - my apologies for my incomplete advice. I didn't see
your "on the bike" pre-requisite.

I will now promptly ignore it again!

Sachs/SRAM chains with a powerlink are easy to put on and
take off (for most folks - some people do have some
trouble.) I take mine off every year and give it a very
thorough cleaning. Outside of that, I wipe/oil/wipe.

If you are going to get the most life out of your chain,
wipe/oil/wipe and forget about the cleaning gizmos.
--
Jonesy
 
who? Jones writes:

> I will now promptly ignore it again!

> Sachs/SRAM chains with a PowerLink are easy to put on and
> take off (for most folks - some people do have some
> trouble.) I take mine off every year and give it a very
> thorough cleaning. Outside of that, I wipe/oil/wipe.

> If you are going to get the most life out of your chain,
> wipe/oil/wipe and forget about the cleaning gizmos.

I recommend against that method for the reasons
explained in:

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html

Jobst Brandt [email protected]
 
In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Steven M. Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote
> > in message news:%[email protected]
> > .earthlink.net...
> >
> >
> > > Sometimes compressed air is helpful.
> >
> > Yes, for those moments when you _rilly rilly_ need to
> > get fine abrasive particles into the load bearing parts
> > of the chain.
>
> He wasn't asking about the chain, he was asking about
> other parts of the "chainset" which I believed to mean
> stuff like the freewheel, derailleur, etc.
>
>
>
I plead guilty to using compressed air.. What is the
problem if you have washed the thing with clean solvent and
want to dry it off in a hurry? (Yeah. I know not to spin a
bearing with air)
 
Shaun Rimmer wrote:

>>We are no longer allowed to Google for previous threads
>>over here in rec.bicycles.racing.
>
>
> Why?

I can't say. I suggest you Google for "h squared",
"PedalChick" "Sierraman" and "stalker". 'Nuff said.
 
"Steven M. Scharf" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Jonesy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]... .
> > Back to topic: I also have had poor luck with citrus-
> > based solvents. They are good for degreasing clothes, or
> > removing glue residue, but not for chain cleaning. I use
> > good ol' paint thinner in a soda bottle. Put in the
> > chain. Shake. Pull the chain out and wipe. Let dirt
> > settle out. Pour off clear (no dirt particles)
> > supernatant to a new bottle, remove dirt from old
> > bottle. Put chain in new bottle. Shake. Rinse, lather,
> > repeat until no dirt comes out of chain.
>
> This is about the same as using a chain cleaning device,
> again, the key is "rinse, lather, repeat."

Less expense, and less fiddling with the bike as a whole.

> > Dry thoroughly, such that NO solvent is left in the
> > chain.
>
> Which is why you shouldn't use water based solvents. It's
> very difficult to dry it. You have water mixed with old
> lubricant inside the links. I guess that a torch would
> accellerate the drying process. OTOH, a little petroleum
> based solvent left inside is not a problem.

My drying times are usually on the order of days to a week -
I have more than one chain. :)

Or I use a particularly volatile solvent as the "final
rinse." I have access to almost any solvent I desire. The
one I use most often is n-pentane.

> > Soak in lightweight motor oil overnight. Pull out, let
> > drain, wipe down with solventy rag. Install, let sit,
> > wipe it down again. Ride for three minutes until it's
> > dirty again.
>
> 30W oil is okay (never 10Wanything), but chainsaw oil is a
> better choice.

0W20. Or some sort of boutique bicycle chain oil - I have
several bottles lying around. Motorcycle chain oil works
OK as well.

> > After having seen at least one experiment in r.b.t., I
> > think the "wipe real good, re-oil, wipe real good again"
> > is the best method for chain lubrication. Skip the
> > cleaning, and replace the thing when it gets really
> > filthy.
>
> This works too. The problem is that it's very hard to
> lubricate the inside of a chain without submersing it.
> What works best is, unsurprisingly, chain lubricant, a
> foaming spray that is sold a motorcycle parts stores.

Yeah. Jobst's opinion on lubrication without thorough
cleaning is interesting, but I don't normally run my chains
for years on end. Every couple of years, I just buy a new
chain. Heck, even the old ones I have lying around still
don't have measurable elongation.

> > I run oil in the winter, drier lube (wax-based) in the
> > summer.
>
> Wax is a very poor lubricant.

Depends on its melting point. Paraffin wax (the kind one
might use for making candles) is not very good. Even when
mixed with a light lube to lower its melting point. I use a
teflon-based wax with a low melting temp. Works pretty well,
and even keeps going when it gets wet. Doesn't work very
well when the temps dip below 50 degrees F.
--
Jonesy
 
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